Greatest of all time

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Cjay
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Greatest of all time

Postby Cjay » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:53 pm

Norms comment in another thread inspired this :-D

Its been debated to death for decades, but thought we could flog it a bit more :roflmao: :roflmao: :chair: :whip: :horse:

2 players always seem to be up there, Pele and Maradona.

Then people throw in De Stefano, George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Johan Cruyff, Ferenc Puskas, Zinedine Zidane, Michel Platini, Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi the list goes on and on and on.

Now im to young to remember practically all those names, Zidane, Ronaldo, Messi, maybe if i try really hard then the tail end of Maradonas career, but thats it.

Not going to debate them all, but Pele for me i dont get the hype, maybe its my age never seen him play etc but people go on about his scoring record, he played in a poor league all his career, not trying to be disrespectful but he did.

Yes he had some great World Cups but he was surrounded by great players and since he played in such a poor league he could afford to save himself.

Anyway thats just my opinion.

My vote goes to Lionel Messi, again could be my age, yes he hasnt won the big one at international level but thats all he hasnt done.

Most Ballon d'Or wins (5)
Youngest player to win 3 Ballon d'or aged 24
Most league goals scored in a season: 50 goals
Most goals scored in a season (club): 73 goals
Most goals scored in a year (club): 79 goals
Most goals scored in a calender year:96 goals
Barcelona all time top scorer:540 goals
29 trophies won in his career.

Theres tons more, i dont feel that not winning the world cup should define his career, and he is only 30 years old.

He has been the best player in the world for the best part of a decade and probably will continue to be till he retires imo.

So Messi is my pick, who is everyone elses :-D

liggy
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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby liggy » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:52 pm

That a tough one CJ
I like defenders Franco Baresi & Paolo Maldini
Two greats of the game imo.
My old Man reckons Duncan Edwards was an absolute colossal player
So I'll go for........Norman Hunter
Best non league.Robbie Dale
Best scrapper.....Roberto Duran

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby weasel » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:01 pm

Would have to go for Maradona who inspired a fairly average Argentinian side to world cup glory and then nearly did it again. Pele for me always had the luxury of great players around him and I would argue that Brazil would have probably won their world cups even if he wasn't in their team, whereas Argentina wouldn't. Maradona also inspired a very average Napoli side to title triumphs too and, again unlike Pele, played his career in arguably the best league at the time.
Senor El Weasel

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby faaip » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:25 pm

Cruyff for me will always be the GOAT
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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby Norm » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:27 am

Interesting topic and nobody’s necessarily going to agree with anybody else.

One thing I will say is that, if a player deemed to be world class has played internationally, the way he has contributed to whatever that country has achieved or not is very relevant. I’ve looked at different polls and one of them picked Maradona as no.1 simply because, on top of all his skills and other achievements, he could win the World Cup in 1986 with a team that would normally not even have had a chance of winning.

You want goals; Puskas got 84 goals in 85 appearances for Hungary and 324 goals in 372 appearances for Real Madrid.

Eusebio scored a total of 733 goals in 745 games in his career and was also very skilful in dribbling and passing.

Zidane wasn’t famous for goals but for his ball control and his 360 degree roulette move which was a real playmaker. His tactical vision made it possible to organize a team and give brilliant passes to his teammates.

Di Stéfano was a forward but could play almost anywhere on the pitch, he could help defending and later setting up an attack or scoring goals. He had great stamina, tactical sense and vision.

Pelé scored more than 1000 goals in his career and became 3 times winner of the World Cup with Brazil. He was great in all aspects of the game, shooting, heading, dribbling, passing and even defending although he was an attacker, but he was surrounded by very good players internationally..

Messi is probably going to be voted the best in future as earlier players fade from the memory, but I’m including the merit of international achievement, grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and personally ensuring, through all the foul tackles, that a game is won. Maradona for me too.

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby John in Louisiana » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:30 am

Don't know that he was the best player of all time, but my favorite player ever (apart from Bremner, of course) was Sócrates Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira. A positively brilliant attacking midfielder; his passing and vision on the field were unrivaled. He could read and dominate a game from the midfield as well as Zidane at his best.

Don't penalize Pele because the players around him were great. Pele was amazing. He revolutionized the game.

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby 1964white » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:42 am

Oh god who knows !

Pele, Puskas, Messi, Maradona, Zidane, Beckenbauer, Ronaldo, Di Stefano, Best, Cruyff. Maldino, Eusebio are or were all top class footballers in their own era's

Very difficult to split tbh

And then there are Billy Bremner & Johnny Giles :scarf1:

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby Clacton White » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:12 am

1964white wrote:Oh god who knows !

Pele, Puskas, Messi, Maradona, Zidane, Beckenbauer, Ronaldo, Di Stefano, Best, Cruyff. Maldino, Eusebio are or were all top class footballers in their own era's

Very difficult to split tbh

And then there are Billy Bremner & Johnny Giles :scarf1:


There's good argument for any of those - I'd say Pele stands above most , especially as he did what he did with the old heavy footballs , Garrincha as well , who outside of Brazil seems to get forgotten. Ruud Gullit was some player as well . Many era's , many players - all of whom have some sort of argument for being the best , I guess though it will always come down to Pele or Maradonna , for me its got to be Pele .
Eddie Gray was quite good though as well .

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby liggy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:39 am

Clacton White wrote:There's good argument for any of those - I'd say Pele stands above most , especially as he did what he did with the old heavy footballs , Garrincha as well , who outside of Brazil seems to get forgotten. Ruud Gullit was some player as well . Many era's , many players - all of whom have some sort of argument for being the best , I guess though it will always come down to Pele or Maradonna , for me its got to be Pele .
Eddie Gray was quite good though as well .



Garrincha would be the first name on any all time 11 for me

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby paddy parrott » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:39 am

We didn't see all of Eddie alas!, what a winger . Imagine if he hadn't picked up those injuries. Oh and he'd quite a eye for goal aswell.

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby 1964white » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:51 am

liggy wrote:Garrincha would be the first name on any all time 11 for me


Wonderful footballer :tup:

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby Cjay » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:32 pm

Gotta stand up for my boy Lionel :-D

He is a 4time Champions League winner.

The World Cup may be more prestigious but id argue that the Champions League is far harder to win.

The teams in that are made up of the best of the best, the best players in the world in one team playing another team made up of the best in the world.

For example PSG has the best Brazilian player in the world now with the best young prospect on the planet.

People get misty eyed over the World Cup for good reason, but the Champions League is where the best teams Europe has to offer with the best players in them all fight it out.

On another note, Maradona was finished at Lionel Messis age, Messi has 1 maybe 2 World Cups left and at the rate he is going there is no reason he wont get to 1000 goals in a far more competitive time then Pele and co.

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby 1964white » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:40 pm

Cjay wrote:Gotta stand up for my boy Lionel :-D

He is a 4 time Champions League winner


Messi is a great footballer of the modern-era

Anyway I'm not listening to you on this one especially as you voted Cooper over Saiz :shock: in the August Player Of The Month poll :wink:

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby Norm » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:48 pm

Don't you just love that erudition CJay - Naaa Naaa Ma Naaa Naaa :lol:

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby gessa » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:53 pm

Cjay wrote:Norms comment in another thread inspired this :-D

Its been debated to death for decades, but thought we could flog it a bit more :roflmao: :roflmao: :chair: :whip: :horse:

2 players always seem to be up there, Pele and Maradona.

Then people throw in De Stefano, George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Johan Cruyff, Ferenc Puskas, Zinedine Zidane, Michel Platini, Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi the list goes on and on and on.

Now im to young to remember practically all those names, Zidane, Ronaldo, Messi, maybe if i try really hard then the tail end of Maradonas career, but thats it.

Not going to debate them all, but Pele for me i dont get the hype, maybe its my age never seen him play etc but people go on about his scoring record, he played in a poor league all his career, not trying to be disrespectful but he did.

Yes he had some great World Cups but he was surrounded by great players and since he played in such a poor league he could afford to save himself.

Anyway thats just my opinion.

My vote goes to Lionel Messi, again could be my age, yes he hasnt won the big one at international level but thats all he hasnt done.

Most Ballon d'Or wins (5)
Youngest player to win 3 Ballon d'or aged 24
Most league goals scored in a season: 50 goals
Most goals scored in a season (club): 73 goals
Most goals scored in a year (club): 79 goals
Most goals scored in a calender year:96 goals
Barcelona all time top scorer:540 goals
29 trophies won in his career.

Theres tons more, i dont feel that not winning the world cup should define his career, and he is only 30 years old.

He has been the best player in the world for the best part of a decade and probably will continue to be till he retires imo.

So Messi is my pick, who is everyone elses :-D


Really difficult but I'd have to go Pele, the things he could do with the ball was awesome, don't forget too, players in those days had less protection from the referees.

You mention Best in your list, not being biased but I think Eddie was as good if not better than Best, don't get me wrong Best could play but I think his off field antics got him noticed more and so putting him in the limelight, if Eddie had got up to the same sort of things, he'd have got the media attention too.

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby 1964white » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:17 pm

gessa wrote:Really difficult but I'd have to go Pele, the things he could do with the ball was awesome, don't forget too, players in those days had less protection from the referees.

You mention Best in your list, not being biased but I think Eddie was as good if not better than Best, don't get me wrong Best could play but I think his off field antics got him noticed more and so putting him in the limelight, if Eddie had got up to the same sort of things, he'd have got the media attention too.


From a football point of view mate I don't like saying this however I think Gray & Best were on a similar level

Agree with you on Pele & all top flair players from the 50's to the 80's they got no protection whatsoever from the officials, totally different game these days, you had to be hard & thick-skinned to survive in those days.

Pele would probably be my choice :tup:

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby gessa » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:22 pm

1964white wrote:From a football point of view mate I don't like saying this however I think Gray & Best were on a similar level

Agree with you on Pele & all top flair players from the 50's to the 80's they got no protection whatsoever from the officials, totally different game these days, you had to be hard & thick-skinned to survive in those days.

Pele would probably be my choice :tup:


Eddie was on par but didn't get the recognition he deserved.

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby Cjay » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:32 pm

1964white wrote:Messi is a great footballer of the modern-era

Anyway I'm not listening to you on this one especially as you voted Cooper over Saiz :shock: in the August Player Of The Month poll :wink:


Liam Cooper this season looks like Paolo Maldini compared to last :P

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby Cjay » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:34 pm

Norm wrote:Don't you just love that erudition CJay - Naaa Naaa Ma Naaa Naaa :lol:


Thats a clever word for a friday afternoon Norm, id need a lay down after that :roflmao:

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Re: Greatest of all time

Postby 1964white » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:23 pm

Cjay wrote:Liam Cooper this season looks like Paolo Maldini compared to last :P


Not quite but I get your gist

What does that make Saiz then :wink:


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