What we have we hold

[Cjay]

Im thinking in light of our poor away form we should set up not to lose first and foremost and nick a goal if we can

Especially against stronger rivals.

Something like . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . Lonners . . . . . . . . .

Ayling . . . Pontus . . . . Cooper . . . . Berardi . . .

. . . . . . .Anita . . . . . . . . . . Vieira(dms)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Klich . . . . . . . . . .CM
Alioski . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dallas
. . . . . . . . . . . . Lassy . . . . . . . . . . .

Know people dont think Ali does enough but he does track back and has played as a defender, Sacko, and Roofe havent so he has that going for him, not a Dallas fan but he also will defend. Means yes we lose threat going forward but at the moment for all our attacking threat that goes when we concede which inevitably happens at the moment, make it through the 1st half then look at it again maybe 60mins or so.

Dont think we can adapt to 3 at the back but if we can . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Lonners . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . .Berardi . . . . . .Jansson . . . . . Cooper
Dallas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Ali
. . . . . . . . . . .Vieira . . . . . .Anita. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Klich . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . Saiz . . . . . . . . . . . . . Lassy . . . . . .

Same logic at wingback, one was a full back and the other has started playing there. Anita made his name as a dm originally and is an experienced head to help the talented if occasionally naive Vieira. And klich showed against Burnley he can play box to box.

Saiz can float around, offering the main support to Lassy, but also dropping deeper and covering for Klich for example if he needs to go out and help Ali or Dallas, or if Anita or Viera have dropped deeper to make a back four if we are under pressure klich can drop to dm and saiz covers for Klich offering his energy.

[NorfolkWhite]

Interesting thought as the other team I see a fair bit of (The Canaries) did exactly the same after some initial shockers where they were very poor defensively leading to a real bore draw 0 - 0 against Burton and then again against Bristol (both at home) but seems to have seen them turn the corner with a couple of cracking results recently. Effectively how we set up for the vast majority of last season - we do have the quality to nick goals and get a few 1 - 0 s.

From that suggested line up I would maybe drop Alioski and switch Dallas across and bring Ayling in to that position (he's not been on his own being poor last couple of games!)

[1964white]

Im thinking in light of our poor away form we should set up not to lose first and foremost and nick a goal if we can

Especially against stronger rivals.

Something like . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . Lonners . . . . . . . . .

Ayling . . . Pontus . . . . Cooper . . . . Berardi . . .

. . . . . . .Anita . . . . . . . . . . Vieira(dms)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Klich . . . . . . . . . .CM
Alioski . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dallas
. . . . . . . . . . . . Lassy . . . . . . . . . . .

Know people dont think Ali does enough but he does track back and has played as a defender, Sacko, and Roofe havent so he has that going for him, not a Dallas fan but he also will defend. Means yes we lose threat going forward but at the moment for all our attacking threat that goes when we concede which inevitably happens at the moment, make it through the 1st half then look at it again maybe 60mins or so.

Dont think we can adapt to 3 at the back but if we can . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Lonners . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . .Berardi . . . . . .Jansson . . . . . Cooper
Dallas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Ali
. . . . . . . . . . .Vieira . . . . . .Anita. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Klich . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . Saiz . . . . . . . . . . . . . Lassy . . . . . .

Same logic at wingback, one was a full back and the other has started playing there. Anita made his name as a dm originally and is an experienced head to help the talented if occasionally naive Vieira. And klich showed against Burnley he can play box to box.

Saiz can float around, offering the main support to Lassy, but also dropping deeper and covering for Klich for example if he needs to go out and help Ali or Dallas, or if Anita or Viera have dropped deeper to make a back four if we are under pressure klich can drop to dm and saiz covers for Klich offering his energy.

So no Saiz in your first team who would scare the living daylights out of any championship side?

[Cjay]

So no Saiz in your first team who would scare the living daylights out of any championship side?

He scared the life out of Wednesday and it counted for nothing, we lost

2 defensive mids to sit, thats it, just sit and protect, Anita did it at a higher level then this and Vieira did it last season but had a tendency to wander, so Anita keeps Vieira in position, thats his job.

Neither of them are big, Klich offers height and did show he can be a box to box mid at Burnley, driving forward but also back on the edge of his own box making interceptions and offering the defence a way out.

The midfield needs to be solid, thats where we have struggled, so we have 3 in there, 2 to sit one to offer protection and support going forward.

Saiz isnt a box to box mid so he cant play there.

He has played out wide, but would he do all the tracking back he would need to?

Sacrifice flair for solidarity imo.

[1964white]

He scared the life out of Wednesday and it counted for nothing, we lost

2 defensive mids to sit, thats it, just sit and protect, Anita did it at a higher level then this and Vieira did it last season but had a tendency to wander, so Anita keeps Vieira in position, thats his job.

Neither of them are big, Klich offers height and did show he can be a box to box mid at Burnley, driving forward but also back on the edge of his own box making interceptions and offering the defence a way out.

The midfield needs to be solid, thats where we have struggled, so we have 3 in there, 2 to sit one to offer protection and support going forward.

Saiz isnt a box to box mid so he cant play there.

He has played out wide, but would he do all the tracking back he would need to?

Sacrifice flair for solidarity imo.

Sorry Cjay we need our best player in whatever team you start with, he is twice the player Alioski & Dallas are, no good just having a bunch of grafters in there with no flair

As for losing at Sheff Wed, yes Samuel should have scored but you can't blame him when he turned one owl then beat two owls before planting a perfect cross onto Alioski's head only for blondie to miss the target with a free header at the back post.
He is the only player in our squad who can produce such controlled skills as he did at Hillsborough.
I was purring !!!

Take Pontus & Saiz out of our team & you can definitely forget a top six finish

I'd go with if fit v Reading :

Lonergan

Berardi Jansson Cooper Anita

Ayling Klich Phillips (because of his goals)

Saiz Hernandez

Lasogga

[hector]

Ditto

[Cjay]

no good just having a bunch of grafters in there with no flair


Take Pontus & Saiz out of our team & you can definitely forget a top six finish

I'd go with if fit v Reading :

Lonergan

Berardi Jansson Cooper Anita

Ayling Klich Phillips (because of his goals)

Saiz Hernandez



Lasogga

Alex Ferguson last side was exactly that, bunch of grafters with a striker on form, not much flair between them but a lot of graft. Valencia, Rooney, Carrick, Cleverley, Kagawa etc, there isnt one player in that side like a Cantona, Ronaldo etc, the Championship needs solidarity over flair imo, especially away from home.

Curious, for your team how would you set it up?

3 narrow in midfield with Pablo and Saiz out wide?

[1964white]

Alex Ferguson last side was exactly that, bunch of grafters with a striker on form, not much flair between them but a lot of graft. Valencia, Rooney, Carrick, Cleverley, Kagawa etc, there isnt one player in that side like a Cantona, Ronaldo etc, the Championship needs solidarity over flair imo, especially away from home

With Robin Van Persie on fire

Curious, for your team how would you set it up?

3 narrow in midfield with Pablo and Saiz out wide?

4-3-2-1

The three defensive midfielders protecting the back four with Ayling & Phillips assisting our full-backs.

Siaz & Hernandez roaming down the middle & the flanks giving Lasogga the service he needs

[Oscar]

Think the time has come for 3 at the back, 4-2-3-1 is just not working for us at the moment mainly because of our problems at centre back Pontus is the best defender at the league but constantly having to cover his centre back partner whether that's Cooper, Pennington or Shaugnessy really isn't good and is starting to have an impact on Pontus's game. The back 4 also aren't getting any protection in front of them either and without Bartley in their to lead the back 4 just can't cope when we come under sustained pressure.

I would go with 3 centre backs of: Pontus, Berardi and one of: Cooper, Shaughnessy or Pennington. Jansson in the middle of the back 3 bringing the ball out and sticking to his position, with Berardi either on his right or left, as with a 3 at the back system teams will try and force the right and left sided centre backs out wide which with Berardi being a full back would suit him, so although it sounds ridiculous Berardi at centre back he would be doing most of his defensive work in the wide positions, similar to how Cesar Azpilicueta and Nacho Monreal developed into centre backs in a 3 at the back system despite playing their whole careers as full backs. Cooper, Shaughnessy and Pennington just don't look ready to have a major impact this season (although in time Shaugnessy and Pennington could become big players for us) having an extra man in the centre as cover could massively help them to build confidence and form. Getting a bit tired of seeing us playing against teams with 2 up front and not looking at all comfortable with a 2 v 2 which becomes Jansson vs 2 strikers as the 3 other options have shown they can't win their individual battles against the better strikers. 3-4-3 gives us a 3 v 2 situation in our favour when teams counter us, get the ball in the box or get the ball to their strikers feet.
Then we can play Ayling and Dallas/Anita as full backs, they suit them roles so so well and it is more conducive to Felix's distribution. If Ayling/Dallas are higher up the pitch and Felix can pick them out we will start to really cause teams problems. At the minute because of where Ayling plays he is normally still in our half of the pitch when he picks the ball up from Wiedwald's distribution so it causes less problems.
Then 2 centre midfielders alongside the 2 full backs one would definitely have to be Vieira (our only natural defensive midfielder) and the other would be one of: Klich, O'Kane and Phillips.
Ahead of them would definitely be Saiz in more of a free role from the left hand side playing closer to Lasogga and then one of: Alioski or Pablo further forward as well.

Something like this:

-----------------------------------------------------------Wiedwald/Lonergan--------------------------------------------------------


---------------------------------------Berardi------------------Jansson--------Cooper/Pennington/Shaughnessy-------------


Ayling-----------------------------------------Vieira--------------------- Klich/O'Kane/Phillips-------------------Dallas/Anita


------------------------------------------Hernandez/Alioski--------------------------Saiz------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------Lasogga/Roofe------------------------------------------------------------------

[weasel]

The trouble is that if you set up too defensively and have no threat then you will simply end up defending for 90 minutes or conceding anyway and then not really having any threat to get back into the game. Playing with the formation and players we have been picking it gives us a great chance to score first and then, as shown by the wins v Sunderland and Forest, we go on to win the games comfortably. The first goal is all important but if we set up too defensivley then how will we get the first goal?

Against Sheff Wed we had chances in the first 20 minutes to go in front but didn't take them. Even at the start of the second half we had great chances to get back into the game with Siaz missing 2 great chances and Lasogga hitting the post. We score one of those and it could have completely changed the game.

[Cjay]

The trouble is that if you set up too defensively and have no threat then you will simply end up defending for 90 minutes or conceding anyway and then not really having any threat to get back into the game. Playing with the formation and players we have been picking it gives us a great chance to score first and then, as shown by the wins v Sunderland and Forest, we go on to win the games comfortably. The first goal is all important but if we set up too defensivley then how will we get the first goal?

Against Sheff Wed we had chances in the first 20 minutes to go in front but didn't take them. Even at the start of the second half we had great chances to get back into the game with Siaz missing 2 great chances and Lasogga hitting the post. We score one of those and it could have completely changed the game.

Thats true, that takes us us back to the realization we arent as clinical as our stats suggest, Sunderland and Forest should have been 4-0 not 2-0. That in itself is a worry since its become clear we needs to score first to win, if we dont, as we didnt when we should have against Wednesday then invariably they get a goal and we collapse.

I suppose its about balance, the poor displays from our defence, goalkeeper and 2 midfielders in recent games has really worried me. My thinking with the two sides and formations i suggested is with the players in them we are flexible. Both can become 4-2-3-1 if we are performing well and want to attack, but if we are under pressure we can revert to a more defensive formation quite easily with the players in the side.

[weasel]

Thats true, that takes us us back to the realization we arent as clinical as our stats suggest, Sunderland and Forest should have been 4-0 not 2-0. That in itself is a worry since its become clear we needs to score first to win, if we dont, as we didnt when we should have against Wednesday then invariably they get a goal and we collapse..

Likewise though Sunderland and Forest both had a chance to score before we did - if either had done then we may well have lost those games. Burton arguably was the only game where we truly dominated as they didn't have a chance until midway through the second half.

[liggy]

CJ please refrain from smoking the skunk it's doing you know good son thanks liggy.
BTW WTF NO SAIZ!!!!!!
You'll be talking about landing man on the moon next and dropping Eddie Gray ....ends.

Ps
Space cakes can be made in Blyth
For availability & recipe
c/of Sandra's country kitchen

[Cjay]

CJ please refrain from smoking the skunk it's doing you know good son thanks liggy.
BTW WTF NO SAIZ!!!!!!
You'll be talking about landing man on the moon next and dropping Eddie Gray ....ends.

Ps
Space cakes can be made in Blyth
For availability & recipe
c/of Sandra's country kitchen

I dont like the smell, makes me feel sick