Felix Wiedwald

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Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Is he another victim of knee jerk reactions?

Long line of players in this clubs history who no matter what they never could win the fans over completely, Chris Wood is the most recent. But is the amount of criticism he gets online justified, or is it a case of "he isnt the man we wanted so we will criticize no matter what".

Dont think anyone will argue that he hasnt had a poor start, he has struggled, and as a goalkeeper unfortunately for him most of his mistakes will result in a goalscoring chance for the opposition, fans remember them. This is where his position goes against him, his job in the end is to stop the other team scoring, attacking players score goals, goalkeepers and defensive players stop goals, thats it, pretty simples.

So when he makes a mistake and we concede then he hasnt done his job, and rightly so he will get some stick, but when Samu Saiz doesnt score a few times when he should, it gets excused, when Pontus makes a mistake, which he has on occasion then people gloss over it.

Those two players are fan favourites, fans will cut them more slack then most, and thats fine, Pontus in particular has saved us many times and he deserves some slack, Saiz has been brilliant and his all round performances have been excellent, but his job is to score goals and make chances, and there are a few occasions where he hasnt done his job.

All round performances dont excuse not doing what your primary function is, if Wiedwald had a great game against Reading, claiming crosses, lots of great saves but in the 95th minute made a mistake and we lost 1-0 would anyone care about what he had done before? probably not, they would just be fixed on the mistake, because that has lost us the match.

Just using Saiz as an example, but it shows the difference, some players are forgiven more easily then others, we have fan favourites and we will allow them to get away with more then those who maybe wernt what or who the fans wanted, Felix is one of those.

Leeds fans wax lyrical about Rob Green, they didnt want him to leave and they blame Felix for that, he took Greens position and Green left , so any mistake Wiedwald makes fans say "Green would have done better". Think us fans need to remember who Rob Green is and how a lot felt about him up until January maybe it was.

Rob Green is famous for his mistakes, he has made some shocking errors throughout his career, not going to link them here but just look on youtube, there are tons of them, worse then Weidwald, air kicks, first touches that are basically passes to the opposition, allowing back passes to go in the goal, much worse then Felix has done.

And what seems to get forgotten is Rob Green was dreadful for nearly the first half of the season, it was only the 2nd half where he really looked solid and won the fans over, before that nobody wanted Rob Green, he was getting worse stick then Weidwald, because we knew his history of blunders.

A good indicator of a players ability i think, not perfect, but genuinely good, is look at how his ex clubs fans reacted to them leaving. Werder Bremen fans were very upset, they rated Weidwald highly and were not happy he was allowed to go.

So thats the fans of a club who finished 8th in the Bundesliga upset we got there goalkeeper.

When we signed Rob Green QPR fans were delighted, on the whole he wasnt rated and they were pleased he was gone, thats a mid table Championship sides fans pleased we took there goalkeeper.

Additionally, i like many have started calling for Andy Lonergan, im as guilty as anyone regarding knee jerk reactions, hold my hands up. But once more, Wolves fans wernt all that fussed that we signed him, and not that many Leeds fans hand on heart could say they were to bothered when he left the first time. Because Andy Lonergan, like the man we replaced him with Paddy Kenny is and always will be an average Championship Goalkeeper.

Would Paddy Kenny, Rob Green or Andy Lonergan be number 1 for Werder Bremen in the Bundesliga? No.
Not ever for 2 of them, Green maybe at one point but even back then he was famous for his shockers.

All goalkeepers make mistakes, David Stockdale and Kieren Westwood, 2 of the best goalkeepers in this division have both made mistakes, in fact Wednesday fans are in parts calling for Westwood to be dropped despite his reputation as one of the best in the division.

Not because he is a bad keeper, he isnt, but because his mistakes are likely to be more costly then say Kieren Lee, Lee misplaces a pass on the halfway line then its unlikely to lead to a goal being conceded, Westwood drops a catch at an opponents feet then theres a good chance it will result in a goal.

But is the young lad they are calling for a better keeper then Westwood, of course he isnt, its just the nature of the position, fans panic and dont think rationally.

Maybe Felix deserves more of a chance and perhaps we should remember that our replacement isnt Gianluigi Buffon, fans have short term memories, they remember the good Rob Green did, but if we cast our minds back further then we can remember the bad, and there was a lot of it and for longer then 11 games.

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby weasel » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:05 pm

Definitely the case that FW is getting much more blame than is fair. Some of the goals he has been blamed for are not due to his mistakes at all but yet he is being pilloried for them. All keepers make mistakes and like you say 99% of their mistakes end up in the back of the net. All keepers have their weaknesses and the point made previously about DeGea is very apt as he has always been a good shot stopper but it took him a few seasons to add aerial dominance to his game and he was frequently dropped from the team and replaced by goalkeepers that had a lot less potential than him but were steadier options at that time in history.

Green was unfairly treated last season for a long time by fans who remembered his mistakes over the years rather than his countless clean sheets and good saves. His mistakes were high profile because he spent the majority of his career as a keeper in the top flight and playing internationals. To hear some fans every goal we conceded he should have saved and that has been the case with FW this season.

Even international keepers have their flaws. Paul Robinson in my opinion was a very poor keeper because he never seemed to catch any shots and so many times parried it back into a dangerous area (compare him to Peter Schmeichel who either caught them or made sure he pushed shots round the post - even if he parried it into play he seemed to push it back with huge force so that no one could get a simple tap in). For me if Nigel Martyn had played instead of Paul Robinson we wouldn't have been relegated. However even Nigel Martyn had his flaws. He seemed to always struggle in the big games, against the likes of Man U or when he got an occasional game for England.

As for Andy Lonerghan your assessment is right. He is a decent keeper but nothing spectacular. I remember him making a complete howler for us against Ipswich under Simon Grayson. His error meant we went in 1-0 down at half time but thankfully we turned it around to win 3-1 and he actually had a decent game apart from the mistake. However that is the crux of the matter as if a midfielder made just 1 mistake a match he would be playing brilliantly but if a keeper makes 1 then he is remembered for that.

Let's get of FW's back and with our support he may just become a very decent keeper for us - he might not but their is a much higher chance that he will do if we support him than if we don't.
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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby 1964white » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:10 pm

Blimey Cjay your posts are becoming increasingly longer mate, it's akin to reading Lord Of The Rings :shock:

I'll get back to you later with a reply for at least some of your post :wink:

Work to do & then my dinner are immediate priorities right now !

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Crude » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:19 pm

Felix is our best keeper by a clear margin, should start over Lonergan (and nothing against Andy personally). Get behind the big German and support him, instead of whining about mistakes every top-level keeper in the world makes.
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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby liggy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Cjay wrote:Is he another victim of knee jerk reactions?

Long line of players in this clubs history who no matter what they never could win the fans over completely, Chris Wood is the most recent. But is the amount of criticism he gets online justified, or is it a case of "he isnt the man we wanted so we will criticize no matter what".

Dont think anyone will argue that he hasnt had a poor start, he has struggled, and as a goalkeeper unfortunately for him most of his mistakes will result in a goalscoring chance for the opposition, fans remember them. This is where his position goes against him, his job in the end is to stop the other team scoring, attacking players score goals, goalkeepers and defensive players stop goals, thats it, pretty simples.

So when he makes a mistake and we concede then he hasnt done his job, and rightly so he will get some stick, but when Samu Saiz doesnt score a few times when he should, it gets excused, when Pontus makes a mistake, which he has on occasion then people gloss over it.

Those two players are fan favourites, fans will cut them more slack then most, and thats fine, Pontus in particular has saved us many times and he deserves some slack, Saiz has been brilliant and his all round performances have been excellent, but his job is to score goals and make chances, and there are a few occasions where he hasnt done his job.

All round performances dont excuse not doing what your primary function is, if Wiedwald had a great game against Reading, claiming crosses, lots of great saves but in the 95th minute made a mistake and we lost 1-0 would anyone care about what he had done before? probably not, they would just be fixed on the mistake, because that has lost us the match.

Just using Saiz as an example, but it shows the difference, some players are forgiven more easily then others, we have fan favourites and we will allow them to get away with more then those who maybe wernt what or who the fans wanted, Felix is one of those.

Leeds fans wax lyrical about Rob Green, they didnt want him to leave and they blame Felix for that, he took Greens position and Green left , so any mistake Wiedwald makes fans say "Green would have done better". Think us fans need to remember who Rob Green is and how a lot felt about him up until January maybe it was.

Rob Green is famous for his mistakes, he has made some shocking errors throughout his career, not going to link them here but just look on youtube, there are tons of them, worse then Weidwald, air kicks, first touches that are basically passes to the opposition, allowing back passes to go in the goal, much worse then Felix has done.

And what seems to get forgotten is Rob Green was dreadful for nearly the first half of the season, it was only the 2nd half where he really looked solid and won the fans over, before that nobody wanted Rob Green, he was getting worse stick then Weidwald, because we knew his history of blunders.

A good indicator of a players ability i think, not perfect, but genuinely good, is look at how his ex clubs fans reacted to them leaving. Werder Bremen fans were very upset, they rated Weidwald highly and were not happy he was allowed to go.

So thats the fans of a club who finished 8th in the Bundesliga upset we got there goalkeeper.

When we signed Rob Green QPR fans were delighted, on the whole he wasnt rated and they were pleased he was gone, thats a mid table Championship sides fans pleased we took there goalkeeper.

Additionally, i like many have started calling for Andy Lonergan, im as guilty as anyone regarding knee jerk reactions, hold my hands up. But once more, Wolves fans wernt all that fussed that we signed him, and not that many Leeds fans hand on heart could say they were to bothered when he left the first time. Because Andy Lonergan, like the man we replaced him with Paddy Kenny is and always will be an average Championship Goalkeeper.

Would Paddy Kenny, Rob Green or Andy Lonergan be number 1 for Werder Bremen in the Bundesliga? No.
Not ever for 2 of them, Green maybe at one point but even back then he was famous for his shockers.

All goalkeepers make mistakes, David Stockdale and Kieren Westwood, 2 of the best goalkeepers in this division have both made mistakes, in fact Wednesday fans are in parts calling for Westwood to be dropped despite his reputation as one of the best in the division.

Not because he is a bad keeper, he isnt, but because his mistakes are likely to be more costly then say Kieren Lee, Lee misplaces a pass on the halfway line then its unlikely to lead to a goal being conceded, Westwood drops a catch at an opponents feet then theres a good chance it will result in a goal.

But is the young lad they are calling for a better keeper then Westwood, of course he isnt, its just the nature of the position, fans panic and dont think rationally.

Maybe Felix deserves more of a chance and perhaps we should remember that our replacement isnt Gianluigi Buffon, fans have short term memories, they remember the good Rob Green did, but if we cast our minds back further then we can remember the bad, and there was a lot of it and for longer then 11 games.







No

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby faaip » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:55 pm

I kind of feel I keep gnawing at a bone here, 64 wants more posts, more discussion but tbh I think I've said it all regarding Weidwald and maybe it's getting tiresome for everyone. My next Weidwald post will be an apology when he becomes the championships top keeper later this season, if that doesn't happen this is my last word

I just don't see a very good goalkeeper, indecisive, poor shot stopper, flaps at crosses, doesn't appear to be able to organise a defence who plays soft and at the moment the defence doesn't trust him. Lonergan isn't the answer either btw, he's an honest keeper and credible back up who will probably make more and better saves to keep us in games but there's no long term goodness there either.
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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby faaip » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:58 pm

I'm going to guess by the way that by Christmas Greens 15/16 season will have gone from poor first few to bad first quarter, to bad first half of season (above) to he was crap all season why was he ever here...

Selective memory syndrome
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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:06 pm

1964white wrote:Blimey Cjay your posts are becoming increasingly longer mate, it's akin to reading Lord Of The Rings :shock:

I'll get back to you later with a reply for at least some of your post :wink:

Work to do & then my dinner are immediate priorities right now !

Yeah i didnt mean it to be that long :roflmao:

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:07 pm

liggy wrote:No

Thats actually all anyone needs to say, yesh or no :roflmao:
Last edited by Cjay on Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:11 pm

faaip wrote:I'm going to guess by the way that by Christmas Greens 15/16 season will have gone from poor first few to bad first quarter, to bad first half of season (above) to he was crap all season why was he ever here...

Selective memory syndrome

6 clean sheets last season in the league took till 03/12/16 . . . . . . . .. with a better cb pairing then we have now :duno:

So if goalkeepers are judged on goals conceded he is 2 goals less then Green last season at this stage, and has the same amount of clean sheets 2 months early.

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Gandalf » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:58 pm

Sorry, what was the question ?
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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby 1964white » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:06 pm

Crude wrote:Felix is our best keeper by a clear margin, should start over Lonergan (and nothing against Andy personally). Get behind the big German and support him, instead of whining about mistakes every top-level keeper in the world makes.


Get behind him when he doesn't even come out for crosses & when he does he flaps at them.

He couldn't catch a cold if you sneezed on him, he needs a rocket up his backside

A top keeper generally has certain credentials which he clearly hasn't got in his locker from what we've witnessed so far, he should have fitted into this league by now if he had anything about him.
It's a doddle being a goalie these days as they are so well protected by the modern football rules where there is no physical contact whatsoever, you can't even blow on them nowadays without them claiming they have been fouled.

Look how well Saiz has settled into our team, a player who has a much more difficult role than Felix

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby faaip » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:18 pm

Goalkeepers are not judged on goals conceded
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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby liggy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Gandalf wrote:Sorry, what was the question ?


I think think cj was asking
is Felix the cat, worse than Alan Rough

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby 1964white » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Cjay wrote:6 clean sheets last season in the league took till 03/12/16 . . . . . . . .. with a better cb pairing then we have now :duno:

So if goalkeepers are judged on goals conceded he is 2 goals less then Green last season at this stage, and has the same amount of clean sheets 2 months early.


I can't recall criticising Green too many times, yes he made a couple of howlers but he didn't stand on his line like a chicken expecting his defenders to clear every ball that came into the box.
I certainly wasn't calling for Silvestri's return even though he did quite well in his cup appearances.
Green was one of our players of the season in 2016/17, he kept us in so many games with some truly magnificent saves, his contribution was so immense he was voted Man of the Match on six occasions & only ended up three points behind the outstanding Pontus Janssson in our MOTM competition. Without Green we'd had been lucky to finish in the top ten !

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby 1964white » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:25 pm

liggy wrote:I think think cj was asking
is Felix the cat, worse than Alan Rough


:roflmao:

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:43 pm

366 days ago there was a similar debate with mixed responses . .
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33556&p=598110&hilit=Rob+green#p598110

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:44 pm

liggy wrote:I think think cj was asking
is Felix the cat, worse than Alan Rough

had to Google him :oops:

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:48 pm

faaip wrote:Goalkeepers are not judged on goals conceded

Surely they should be . . if one goalkeeper ends a season with more clean sheets and less goals conceded then his predecessor that means he had a better season.

Performance wise maybe not but its results that matter.

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Re: Felix Wiedwald

Postby Cjay » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:50 pm

1964white wrote:I can't recall criticising Green too many times, yes he made a couple of howlers but he didn't stand on his line like a chicken expecting his defenders to clear every ball that came into the box.
I certainly wasn't calling for Silvestri's return even though he did quite well in his cup appearances.
Green was one of our players of the season in 2016/17, he kept us in so many games with some truly magnificent saves, his contribution was so immense he was voted Man of the Match on six occasions & only ended up three points behind the outstanding Pontus Janssson in our MOTM competition. Without Green we'd had been lucky to finish in the top ten !

But at this stage last season you gave Green a 6 . . which is actually exactly what Phil Hay gave Wiedwald in his review earlier this week.


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