Kemar Roofe on Bielsa

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faaip
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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by faaip » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:15 pm

Top quality today, Movement, touch, work rate and ball skill as good as anything we've seen in a while from a striker.
BPF - Hossannah - Halme - Diaz - Struijk - Oduor - Gotts - Stevens - McCalmont - Temenuzhkov - Shackleton

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

THE FUTURE'S BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS WHITE

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by hector » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:31 am

Roofe for England :eng:
:tup: “And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.” :wink:

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by LevLeeds » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:44 am

hector wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:31 am
Roofe for England :eng:
I said years ago the Lewis Cook will get the England call up. Feel the same about Phillips at the moment too. Hes been immense this season. For some reason he gets undeserved negative comments from some fans. Never understood that.

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by dezzy » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:54 am

LevLeeds wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:44 am
I said years ago the Lewis Cook will get the England call up. Feel the same about Phillips at the moment too. Hes been immense this season. For some reason he gets undeserved negative comments from some fans. Never understood that.
Phillips has youth on his side, if he were to be able to keep this level in the premiership, even though still a tough one, Roofe has improved as much as Phillips but you’d imagine he’s closer to his ceiling.
Wouldn’t think either will make it, if England are to stay as a top 4 nation with their young squad
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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by 1964white » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:44 am

LevLeeds wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:44 am
I said years ago the Lewis Cook will get the England call up. Feel the same about Phillips at the moment too. Hes been immense this season. For some reason he gets undeserved negative comments from some fans. Never understood that.
Glad you are in the KP club Lev :tup:

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by 1964white » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:46 am

faaip wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:15 pm
Top quality today, Movement, touch, work rate and ball skill as good as anything we've seen in a while from a striker.
Excellent this season

Three in three since his return from injury

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by 1964white » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:47 am

hector wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:31 am
Roofe for England :eng:
Good morning Mr P*sstake ;-)

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by hector » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:13 pm

1964white wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:47 am
Good morning Mr P*sstake ;-)
:shock: :shock: :shock:

what do you mean?/ :angel: :angel:
:tup: “And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.” :wink:

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by Cjay » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:29 pm

Phil Hay gave an update on Roofe's contract.

He said it "seemed Leeds were going to start talks imminently, but things have changed, the club will wait a few months and reassess, see what level they want to go to wage wise".

"Roofe isnt one of the high earners and it seems he will want the same sort of money as Hernandez, Bamford etc".

Roofe's people are concerned the club wont give Roofe what he wants, but the club aren't worried.

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by faaip » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:29 pm

Still contracted for 2 seasons ...I don't see an issue. If a prem club offer 15 M for him in Jan then good businees
BPF - Hossannah - Halme - Diaz - Struijk - Oduor - Gotts - Stevens - McCalmont - Temenuzhkov - Shackleton

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

THE FUTURE'S BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS WHITE

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by Cjay » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:41 pm

Fully expect Faaip to yell at me for this but please forgive me.

I dont think Roofe is clinical enough, said the same last season and not changed my mind.

I appreciate he is top scorer, i appreciate his minutes per goal is one of the best in the league, however these can be misleading.

While  they all count there has been a good amount of luck, the handball goal, goalkeeping error etc (although credit to him for pressing).

We shouldn't be relying on luck with this team.

We are creating the most shooting opportunities in the league, he has had the most shooting chances of any striker in the league per game, 3.4.

His shots to goal conversion rate is 1 in 4.9.

For comparison Chris Wood in a far less creative team was 1 in 3.9

Neal Maupay is 1 in 4.2.

Teemu Pukki is 1 in 4.4

Lewis Grabban is 1 in 2.7

Grabban is scoring at a rate of more goals per shots then Roofe has per game.

There are others, the fact remains that we have all complained about a lack of a clinical edge at times and as our lone striker he has to take a lot of the responsibility for that imo.

I know that his work rate and movement are important for us and his all round game is important.

But his job is to score goals and while he is doing well in that respect statistically  he is being given more chances then any other striker per game in the league to do that.

It would be very difficult for a striker to not score well in this team given the amount of chances we create.

All strikers miss chances but a rate of 1 goal every 4.9 shots to be exact isnt good enough.

It may seem nitpicky but these add up over a season and those extra wasted chances could be crucial.

Look at yesterday he had 4 chances 2 were great chances that were squandered, QPR nearly scored at the end but we should have been out of sight. I dont buy the "well his movement is the reason he got the chances" any striker at this level has decent movement.

He deserves credit for his record but there will come a time where we dont create as many chances and there are no handball goals, pens or goalkeeping errors.

At that time a 1 in 5 conversion rate just wont do.

Its a cruel league and we cant keep messing up chances.

Che Adams for Birmingham got 2 goals vs us from 4 Brum shots, Grabban had 1 chance for Forest 1 goal, Gayle came on for WBA 1 shot 1 goal.

Bielsa has spoken about us needing to many chances to score, despite Kemars impressive goal total he is more responsible for that then anyone.

Now please dont yell at me.

 

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by hector » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:09 pm

Tell me Cjay....

How will you be travelling to Coventry?? ;-)

:)
:tup: “And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.” :wink:

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by herefordbornleedsboy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:46 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:41 pm
Fully expect Faaip to yell at me for this but please forgive me.

I dont think Roofe is clinical enough, said the same last season and not changed my mind.

I appreciate he is top scorer, i appreciate his minutes per goal is one of the best in the league, however these can be misleading.

While they all count there has been a good amount of luck, the handball goal, goalkeeping error etc (although credit to him for pressing).

We shouldn't be relying on luck with this team.

We are creating the most shooting opportunities in the league, he has had the most shooting chances of any striker in the league per game, 3.4.

His shots to goal conversion rate is 1 in 4.9.

For comparison Chris Wood in a far less creative team was 1 in 3.9

Neal Maupay is 1 in 4.2.

Teemu Pukki is 1 in 4.4

Lewis Grabban is 1 in 2.7

Grabban is scoring at a rate of more goals per shots then Roofe has per game.

There are others, the fact remains that we have all complained about a lack of a clinical edge at times and as our lone striker he has to take a lot of the responsibility for that imo.

I know that his work rate and movement are important for us and his all round game is important.

But his job is to score goals and while he is doing well in that respect statistically he is being given more chances then any other striker per game in the league to do that.

It would be very difficult for a striker to not score well in this team given the amount of chances we create.

All strikers miss chances but a rate of 1 goal every 4.9 shots to be exact isnt good enough.

It may seem nitpicky but these add up over a season and those extra wasted chances could be crucial.

Look at yesterday he had 4 chances 2 were great chances that were squandered, QPR nearly scored at the end but we should have been out of sight. I dont buy the "well his movement is the reason he got the chances" any striker at this level has decent movement.

He deserves credit for his record but there will come a time where we dont create as many chances and there are no handball goals, pens or goalkeeping errors.

At that time a 1 in 5 conversion rate just wont do.

Its a cruel league and we cant keep messing up chances.

Che Adams for Birmingham got 2 goals vs us from 4 Brum shots, Grabban had 1 chance for Forest 1 goal, Gayle came on for WBA 1 shot 1 goal.

Bielsa has spoken about us needing to many chances to score, despite Kemars impressive goal total he is more responsible for that then anyone.

Now please dont yell at me.
As ever CJay a well reasoned and put together post. I agree those stats dont look great for him and he should be more clinical in front of goal. Clearly the reason we bought Bamford in was due to needing more firepower.
One thing i would be interested in (which stats can't tell you) is how straightforward these chances are that he is getting. Think one of the criticisms levelled at this side on here in the past is not creating clear cut opportunities. Seen the ones from yesterday and admittedly Roofe should have had 3 or 4. Is that the same accross all games?
Not gonna knock him too much because he is currently getting the goals and we are winning.

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by weasel » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:58 pm

Always tricky to evaluate strikers based on chances alone. The nearest thing to being able to do it fairly is the thing the BBC use to determine the probability that the chance should be scored but equally a striker can mishit the shot and score or catch it cleanly and the keeper makes a wonder save. Roofe was extremely unlucky the other week when the keeper saved his header as he had done everything right.

That said I do agree with Cjay in that to really be considered top class Roofe does need to become a bit more clinical. However it is his first season at this level playing regularly as a centre forward and don't forget how poor Wood looked in his first season for us and when comparing against the likes of Grabban and Gayle you also have to take into account how many seasons they have had playing at this level, or higher.
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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by Cjay » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:39 pm

herefordbornleedsboy wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:46 pm
As ever CJay a well reasoned and put together post. I agree those stats dont look great for him and he should be more clinical in front of goal. Clearly the reason we bought Bamford in was due to needing more firepower.
One thing i would be interested in (which stats can't tell you) is how straightforward these chances are that he is getting. Think one of the criticisms levelled at this side on here in the past is not creating clear cut opportunities. Seen the ones from yesterday and admittedly Roofe should have had 3 or 4. Is that the same accross all games?
Not gonna knock him too much because he is currently getting the goals and we are winning.
Thanks very much :)

Its hard to evaluate chancesbut at the same time he chooses to shoot, its his choice so if a chance is to hard just keep the ball, theres a few i remember.

Free header vs Blades, not an easy chance but still a totally free header that wasnt even on target.

1v1 vs Bristol city again didnt even hit the target.

Even against Forest there was a decent chance on the half turn and he mishit that to.

There has been a few 1v1s that havent hit the target.

And noticed it when Jack Clarke came in. Roofes instinct when a winger gets to the line is to drop back for a pull back.

Whereas if you watch natural poachers like Jordan Rhodes at his best, Billy Sharp or even Neal Maupay and Lewis Grabben.

The amount of goals they score from 2 yards out knocking in a cross thats whipped in across the 6 yard box is quite extraordinary.

Roofes movement and link play is extremely good, but he doesnt have the instinct of a natural number 9 imo.

Because i dont think thats what he is, he is a number 10.

He is a player who should be playing between the back 4 and midfield not on the defence.

Roofe has impressed me with his link play and some of his goals with the quick feet.

His movement is brilliant, but his finishing is mediocre at best.

Like to see him playing off Bamford.

As you say Bamford has been brought in to add more goals, he may not be as mobile as Roofe but i think his physical presence and goal scoring instinct is better.

Think Roofe would thrive playing behind Bamford and it gives us another option over Saiz and Brown.

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by Cjay » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:06 pm

Phil reiterating the club plan on opening talks with Roofe in the new year.

Roofe pushing for a new deal and wants parity with Bamford which would be between 30-40k a week.

Roofe rumoured to only (i say only) but relative speaking he is on about 6k a week, one of the lower paid members.

He certainly deserves a pay rise, but from 6k to 30, 35, 40k, not for me.

Hope they can find a compromise

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by weasel » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:44 pm

This sort of thing really irks me and I much prefer the way Major League Baseball contracts are adhered to (i.e. a player signs a contract with a club and then even if they move they are still bound to the contract so the new club pays the same as he was on before the move).

A player has half a good season and suddenly wants a massive pay rise but if a player has a bad half season they don't ask for a pay reduction.
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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by faaip » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:40 pm

TBF ..nor do they in baseball....which by the way like AF depends on the trade as well

Dead money and a limited FA maybe the way to go in football to though. Maybe to a similar recipe used in AF
BPF - Hossannah - Halme - Diaz - Struijk - Oduor - Gotts - Stevens - McCalmont - Temenuzhkov - Shackleton

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

THE FUTURE'S BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS WHITE

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by Cjay » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:54 pm

Roofe shots per goal 5.3
Pukki-4.1
Gayle 3.3
Sharp 3.

That I'm afraid is the crux of the problem, symptomatic of what Bielsa said.

Our main strikers conversion rate greatly highlights what MB has said.

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Re: Kemar Roofe

Post by faaip » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:40 pm

Yeah when I saw that CJay posted in the Roofe thread that it'd be slagging off Roofe.
BPF - Hossannah - Halme - Diaz - Struijk - Oduor - Gotts - Stevens - McCalmont - Temenuzhkov - Shackleton

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

THE FUTURE'S BRIGHT THE FUTURE IS WHITE

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