Victor Orta report

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Cjay
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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Cjay » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:29 pm

Given this a bit of thought.

Orta has been universally panned all season, fair enough, he didnt do what was necessary this season.

However.

Who are our top 5 performers this season?

Jansson will be there, Saiz will be, there two fan golden boys regardless so there in.

Whose the next 3?
Forshaw? Yet to have a bad game, a class act in the middle.
Alioski? Divides opinion but its hard to argue he hasnt been one of our better players
Lasogga? Similar to Ali but again, who has shone more in attack?

Hard to argue against those in favour of, Cooper, Phillips and co?

None of last seasons lot have shone like last season. Ayling was a liability at times, Berardi while solid can be a liability with his risky tackles and poor attacking threat, Vieira, Cooper, Dallas, Phillips, Roofe etc, are they top 5, probably not.

Is it maybe time to credit him for what he has done a bit more? Yes the seasons gone and he has made glaring errors, but you could argue 4 of our 5 best players this season are his signings.

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Richard
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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Richard » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:46 pm

Cjay wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:29 pm
Given this a bit of thought.

Orta has been universally panned all season, fair enough, he didnt do what was necessary this season.

However.

Who are our top 5 performers this season?

Jansson will be there, Saiz will be, there two fan golden boys regardless so there in.

Whose the next 3?
Forshaw? Yet to have a bad game, a class act in the middle.
Alioski? Divides opinion but its hard to argue he hasnt been one of our better players
Lasogga? Similar to Ali but again, who has shone more in attack?

Hard to argue against those in favour of, Cooper, Phillips and co?

None of last seasons lot have shone like last season. Ayling was a liability at times, Berardi while solid can be a liability with his risky tackles and poor attacking threat, Vieira, Cooper, Dallas, Phillips, Roofe etc, are they top 5, probably not.

Is it maybe time to credit him for what he has done a bit more? Yes the seasons gone and he has made glaring errors, but you could argue 4 of our 5 best players this season are his signings.
Who are our 7 worse players..

Felix
Anita
De Bock
Grot
Lonergan
Cibicki
CBJ

;-) :duno: ;-)

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Cjay » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:06 pm

Richard wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:46 pm
Who are our 7 worse players..

Felix
Anita
De Bock
Grot
Lonergan
Cibicki
CBJ

;-) :duno: ;-)
Now your just splitting hairs :) :roflmao:

TBF bit early to totally write of De Bock, Grot and Cibicki. Given there game time have they been any worse then O'Kane, Phillips, Sacko etc?

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Richard » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:10 pm

Cjay wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:06 pm
Now your just splitting hairs :) :roflmao:

TBF bit early to totally write of De Bock, Grot and Cibicki. Given there game time have they been any worse then O'Kane, Phillips, Sacko etc?
Don't get me started on Sacko, I still cannot understand why he was offered a contract after his loan expired.

First few games after he joined I felt O'Kane made all the difference, he was like a missing cog, our fortunes seemed to change after he joined but definitely a backward step this season. Phillips divdes opinion, I am a fan of his and I think he gets a rough ride due to his style.

Grot is only 20 so I agree there is a chance he might come good but I must admit, I didn't even witness a glimmer of hope for us in the games he played. Why we haven't loaned him out to a Div1 team is a mystery.

Cibicki is 24 and he has only played as a winger for us, I can't see him improving in that position if I am honest, I would have liked to have seen what he can do as a striker but with TC and now PH completely overlooking him something isn't right.

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Cjay » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Richard wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:10 pm
Don't get me started on Sacko, I still cannot understand why he was offered a contract after his loan expired.

First few games after he joined I felt O'Kane made all the difference, he was like a missing cog, our fortunes seemed to change after he joined but definitely a backward step this season. Phillips divdes opinion, I am a fan of his and I think he gets a rough ride due to his style.

Grot is only 20 so I agree there is a chance he might come good but I must admit, I didn't even witness a glimmer of hope for us in the games he played. Why we haven't loaned him out to a Div1 team is a mystery.

Cibicki is 24 and he has only played as a winger for us, I can't see him improving in that position if I am honest, I would have liked to have seen what he can do as a striker but with TC and now PH completely overlooking him something isn't right.
I expect the deal was done and we just hadnt announced it, probably done back in January that season or even as a clause in the original loan.

I dont rate either Phillips or O'Kane, Phillips scored a few early door s which protected him a bit, but overall he is a poor player imo.

I like Grot, think there is a player there, ive seen glimpses in his appearances to suggest there is some talent there, a good touch a nice turn etc, just little things.

Agree on Cibicki, had decent hopes but he isnt a young man like Grot, he should be able to be a decent squad member by now.

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by MightyWhites » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 pm

Sack the twat now!

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Clive » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:24 am

MightyWhites wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 pm
Sack the twat now!
This isn't the Heckingbottom thread.

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Cjay » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:21 pm

A full list of signings in the last 2 windows.
1 - Andy Lonergan
2 - Felix Wiedwald
3 - Kamil Miazek
4 - Matthew Turner

Fullbacks:
5 - Vurnon Anita
6 - Laurens de Bock
7 - Bryce Hosannah
8 - Hugo Diaz

Centrebacks:
9 - Matt Pennington
10 - Pontus Jansson
11 - Aapo Halme
12 - Pascal Struijk

Midfielders:
13 - Adam Forshaw
14 - Quasim Bouy
15 - Samuel Saiz
16 - Oriol Rey
17 - Mateusz Klich
18 - Jordan Stevens

Wingers:
19 - Ezgjan Alioski
20 - Hadi Sacko
21 - Madger Gomes
22 - Yosuke Ideguchi
23 - Alejandro Machuca

Strikers:
24 - Pierre-Michel Lasogga
25 - Jay-Roy Grot
26 - Pawel Cibicki
27 - Tyler Roberts
28 - Caleb Ekuban
29 - Adrian Balboa
30 - Oliver Sarkic
31 - Ousama Siddiki
32 - Kun Temenuzhkov
33 - Ryan Edmonson
34 - Sam Dalby

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by weasel » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:38 am

U23s and U18s in fine form now after struggling at the start of the season (and in previous years too). Certainly cause for optimism for the future
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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by faaip » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:03 am

I don't really have much problem with Orta unless he's meddling (no evidence I've seen) in the first team. Our junior sides look strong
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by gessa » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:43 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:21 pm
A full list of signings in the last 2 windows.
1 - Andy Lonergan
2 - Felix Wiedwald
3 - Kamil Miazek
4 - Matthew Turner

Fullbacks:
5 - Vurnon Anita
6 - Laurens de Bock
7 - Bryce Hosannah
8 - Hugo Diaz

Centrebacks:
9 - Matt Pennington
10 - Pontus Jansson
11 - Aapo Halme
12 - Pascal Struijk

Midfielders:
13 - Adam Forshaw
14 - Quasim Bouy
15 - Samuel Saiz
16 - Oriol Rey
17 - Mateusz Klich
18 - Jordan Stevens

Wingers:
19 - Ezgjan Alioski
20 - Hadi Sacko
21 - Madger Gomes
22 - Yosuke Ideguchi
23 - Alejandro Machuca

Strikers:
24 - Pierre-Michel Lasogga
25 - Jay-Roy Grot
26 - Pawel Cibicki
27 - Tyler Roberts
28 - Caleb Ekuban
29 - Adrian Balboa
30 - Oliver Sarkic
31 - Ousama Siddiki
32 - Kun Temenuzhkov
33 - Ryan Edmonson
34 - Sam Dalby
Already forgot about Tyler Roberts. What a waste that was.

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by Cjay » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:06 pm

gessa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:43 pm
Already forgot about Tyler Roberts. What a waste that was.
Wasnt exactly the boost our squad needed was he :lol:

May come good . . .eventually.

But why spend 2 3 4 mill on him when we have young lads like Clarke, Temenzhkov, Dalby and Edmondson all impressing in the youth sides?

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by gessa » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:23 pm

Cjay wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:06 pm
Wasnt exactly the boost our squad needed was he :lol:

May come good . . .eventually.

But why spend 2 3 4 mill on him when we have young lads like Clarke, Temenzhkov, Dalby and Edmondson all impressing in the youth sides?
All that and he was crocked.

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by weasel » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:45 pm

Bloody hell writing players off now before they even kick a ball for us - if he hadn't have got injured he might well have played and scored a couple of goals at crucial times and kept our season alive. People keep knocking the foreign signings and now knocking us buying highly thought of british talent - overpriced journeymen british players it is then so maybe that's why Orta was speaking to Jordan Rhodes.
Senor El Weasel

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by gessa » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:53 pm

weasel wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:45 pm
Bloody hell writing players off now before they even kick a ball for us - if he hadn't have got injured he might well have played and scored a couple of goals at crucial times and kept our season alive. People keep knocking the foreign signings and now knocking us buying highly thought of british talent - overpriced journeymen british players it is then so maybe that's why Orta was speaking to Jordan Rhodes.
Knocking us for signing someone who was already injured and won't kick a ball this season.

Do you think it was £3M well spent ?

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by lufc1304 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:00 pm

gessa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:53 pm
Knocking us for signing someone who was already injured and won't kick a ball this season.

Do you think it was £3M well spent ?
In the context of this season, then no, it wasn't as we needed someone ready to be at least knocking on the door of the first team. But if he fulfils the potential he undoubtedly has, then he could turn out to be a snip at that money.
"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by gessa » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:04 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:00 pm
In the context of this season, then no, it wasn't as we needed someone ready to be at least knocking on the door of the first team. But if he fulfils the potential he undoubtedly has, then he could turn out to be a snip at that money.
Thing is Nick, we needed someone for this season, the right signing to get the goals and perhaps we'd be in a different position now. He should not have been signed until the full extent of the injury was known, Walsall sent him back injured early from his loan and he still has it and they have no idea when he'll be back.

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by lufc1304 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:11 pm

Questions have got to be asked about our medical team, Ges, surely the injury should have been picked up? And I agre re this season, but maybe he'd have taken time to settle and we'd still be where we are? He was highly regarded at West Brom, so he must have something about him. Frustrating not to have his services as yet, but could still turn out to be a good buy longer term.
"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by gessa » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:14 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:11 pm
Questions have got to be asked about our medical team, Ges, surely the injury should have been picked up? And I agre re this season, but maybe he'd have taken time to settle and we'd still be where we are? He was highly regarded at West Brom, so he must have something about him. Frustrating not to have his services as yet, but could still turn out to be a good buy longer term.

The Walsall fans I know rate him and long term it could be a good signing, but....

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Re: Victor Orta report

Post by 1964white » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:16 pm

gessa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:04 pm
Thing is Nick, we needed someone for this season, the right signing to get the goals and perhaps we'd be in a different position now. He should not have been signed until the full extent of the injury was known, Walsall sent him back injured early from his loan and he still has it and they have no idea when he'll be back.
Fulham did it in January signing Mitrovic on loan from Newcastle giving them the impetus the Cottagers required. His 7 goals in 9 games has swiftly moved Fulham into 3rd place, a class signing at this level. There again Fulham are a club with proper ambition

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