TC - Stay or Go?

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well?

Needs time
15
58%
Out of his class, he cannot turn this round
7
27%
I really don't know
4
15%
 
Total votes: 26

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby 1964white » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:46 pm

Oscar wrote:I would give Christiansen more time, our form is diabolical but we are still only 3 points away from the top 6 (assuming Derby win game in hand) of course that isn't good enough but we are not a million miles away if we can just find some momentum and get a result somewhere to kickstart a revival. It has to be said Christiansen isn't helping himself with the way we are playing and the bizzare decisions he keeps making. I am starting to get sick and tired of the same mistakes being made over and over again but Orta is without any shadow of a doubt the main problem imo.
I would sack Orta at this stage and give Christiansen a chance to turn it around to try and get us in a decent position so that he can make his own signings in January to push us on for the second half of the season but the results and performances have got to improve drastically for him to earn that right.


Poor/average players make mistakes Oscar

After yesterday's performance & the matches I've witnessed in the last few weeks there are players who are not good enough to wear the shirt of LUFC

I wouldn't have Ayling, Cooper, Pennington, O'Kane, Alioski, Lasogga ( the big man has had enough chances now, poor work rate) in the first XI. Sacko & Grot wouldn't even make the bench

What we do with the goalie situation god only knows :(

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby 1964white » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:54 pm

gessa wrote:My feeling at the moment is he seems a weak sort of bloke, which would be ok in Cypress with a team winning everything but this is totally different.

If I had to make a decision it would be for him to go, got a feeling he's not the right man for the job but who's out there that is? Not sure how many managers would be happy not being able to choose their own players, Allardyce as been mentioned a lot and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't, not many British managers would.
I said before yesterday lose the next 2 and I think he'll be gone.


TC is a bottler

Ducked out of naming a captain

Refuses to be ruthless with some of our so-called main players who have been pathetic

Continually makes excuses & lies the blame elsewhere for our players & his own inadaquacies

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby Ronan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:06 pm

I'm reading between the lines here but 1964White a bit miffed :duno:

I have to admit to shouting at the TV last night watching that tripe....and usually these days i just sit there accepting it....not last night...i was livid !!!

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby 1964white » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:12 pm

Ronan wrote:I'm reading between the lines here but 1964White a bit miffed :duno:

I have to admit to shouting at the TV last night watching that tripe....and usually these days i just sit there accepting it....not last night...i was livid !!!


Can't recall feeling so angry Ronan, like your goodself I'm really miffed mate

I spend a lot of money, time & effort watching Leeds all over the country & to witness players who can't be arsed or are simply not fit to wear the shirt is soul-destroying.....Enough is enough !

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby Cjay » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:17 pm

1964white wrote:Can't recall feeling so angry Ronan, like your goodself I'm really miffed mate

I spend a lot of money, time & effort watching Leeds all over the country & to witness players who can't be arsed or are simply not fit to wear the shirt is soul-destroying.....Enough is enough !


Can understand the anger, trip to Brentford is a hell of a long one :(

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby Norm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:18 pm

I still don't know how we explain the Bristol City game against the dross of the other recent games. There's something in that game that's a solution to our woes but I didn't see the game and can't say what made the difference. Apart from that game against us, Bristol have stormed up the division. Can anyone say what the spark was that made the difference?

If asked, I think the worst thing he did (allegedly) is walk off the pitch and ignore his players after a game we lost. There may not be any coming back from that tbh.

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby faaip » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:26 pm

Norm wrote:I still don't know how we explain the Bristol City game against the dross of the other recent games. There's something in that game that's a solution to our woes but I didn't see the game and can't say what made the difference. Apart from that game against us, Bristol have stormed up the division. Can anyone say what the spark was that made the difference?

If asked, I think the worst thing he did (allegedly) is walk off the pitch and ignore his players after a game we lost. There may not be any coming back from that tbh.



Maybe Bristol had an off day, maybe they flatter to deceive, maybe they're getting lucky. Versus us all I saw was a pretty poor team, they allowed us to play and did no homework on our many weaknesses...A bit like us really.
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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby Cjay » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:08 pm

faaip wrote:Maybe Bristol had an off day, maybe they flatter to deceive, maybe they're getting lucky. Versus us all I saw was a pretty poor team, they allowed us to play and did no homework on our many weaknesses...A bit like us really.

There results do show they arent a poor team, and by and large were full of praise for us, as have other teams we havent even played yet. Trawling the forums as i do, Wolves, Villa, other fans have praised us based on games they have seen. There is something about our team that is good, when we are good we are very good, but when we are bad we are awful.

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby Norm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:23 pm

faaip wrote:


Maybe Bristol had an off day, maybe they flatter to deceive, maybe they're getting lucky. Versus us all I saw was a pretty poor team, they allowed us to play and did no homework on our many weaknesses...A bit like us really.


So maybe that's it, show us respect and we win, but Millwall put that to bed didn't they!
I begin to understand - we've got no bottle - house of cards.

I still think Klich and Vieira , plus a decent CH and LB, might steady the ship, but we obviously miss Bartley, not just for his skill alongside PJ but for his authoritarian demeanour. Where's the next Vinnie?

Also, maybe TC shows too much respect for his bosses, and that's another problem - too many bosses - you should never have more than one! We already have a Director of Football and a Director of Set Pieces. How soon before we have a Director of Communications to ensure that insults between players are tailored to be non-sexist or sizeist, and a Director of Deportment to ensure that players' willys are taped down before each game so as to create no unsightly bulges, ensure shorts come down to calf-length to ensure no fluttering in spectators' chests, etc. I almost begin to seer why Monk left.

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby Durly » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:43 pm

liggy wrote:He looked like a rabbit in the headlamps after the Derby game.for me.
KARANKA is available ,will also be desperate to prove people wrong
Yes TC probably deserves more time but leeds season is ebbing away right now
id only give him one more game for me.
Plain fact is loosing badly to brenford ain't going to get you radz minimum requirement of top 6..

fwiw I putting a tenner on Pardew & KARANKA


Karanka doesn't get on with Orta, does he?

Difficult to know where the problem lies really. I don't like sacking managers this early, We did it over and over under Cellino and, ultimately it got us nowhere.
That said, the run of form we are on currently is hugely alarming and the players look terrified and shot of all confidence. Whether TC has what it takes to turn them around I honestly don't know. We know there is some talent in there but is the soft underbelly we have shown in recent weeks one that can be toughened up, either by TC or by the players themselves? We really miss that solid spine of Green, Bartley and Wood. Not replaced any of them even remotely adequately.........that's not TC's fault.....ultimately that buck stops with Radz and Orta. Thomas is unequivocally NOT getting anything like the best of out of what is available to him currently though.
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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby Durly » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:46 pm

Norm wrote:So maybe that's it, show us respect and we win, but Millwall put that to bed didn't they!
I begin to understand - we've got no bottle - house of cards.

I still think Klich and Vieira , plus a decent CH and LB, might steady the ship, but we obviously miss Bartley, not just for his skill alongside PJ but for his authoritarian demeanour. Where's the next Vinnie?

Also, maybe TC shows too much respect for his bosses, and that's another problem - too many bosses - you should never have more than one! We already have a Director of Football and a Director of Set Pieces. How soon before we have a Director of Communications to ensure that insults between players are tailored to be non-sexist or sizeist, and a Director of Deportment to ensure that players' willys are taped down before each game so as to create no unsightly bulges, ensure shorts come down to calf-length to ensure no fluttering in spectators' chests, etc. I almost begin to seer why Monk left.


Absolutely. Where are the leaders in this team? We don't have any....again though....that's not TC's fault.
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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby 1964white » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:18 pm

Durly wrote:Absolutely. Where are the leaders in this team? We don't have any....again though....that's not TC's fault.


We ain't got one mate

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby faaip » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:28 pm

Durly wrote:Karanka doesn't get on with Orta, does he?

Difficult to know where the problem lies really. I don't like sacking managers this early, We did it over and over under Cellino and, ultimately it got us nowhere.
That said, the run of form we are on currently is hugely alarming and the players look terrified and shot of all confidence. Whether TC has what it takes to turn them around I honestly don't know. We know there is some talent in there but is the soft underbelly we have shown in recent weeks one that can be toughened up, either by TC or by the players themselves? We really miss that solid spine of Green, Bartley and Wood. Not replaced any of them even remotely adequately.........that's not TC's fault.....ultimately that buck stops with Radz and Orta. Thomas is unequivocally NOT getting anything like the best of out of what is available to him currently though.



Problem I had and have (and to re-iterate I voted I don't know) is TC has no kind of form coming here, we have no idea if he can actually manage (probably comparable to the guy MC first bought in who's name I forget.)

Are we set up to allow Thomas to cut his teeth in the English leagues? He came here with a dossier about what he'd do for us but I'm seeing nothing to suggest he has a game plan to beat other teams. We don't come out fast away from home, we don't seem to test the oppositions weaknesses assuming we know what they are to start with, we don't seem to want to shut down the other teams best player, we let him play.

My guess is he's trying to get us to play in a certain way and that the other team gets in the way of that and he can't adjust. He's too insular. Lets call the first 5 games a honeymoon, other teams had no data on any of our new guys or how TC would set us up. that garnered us the good start. After that the record is more realistic and right now only Sunderland are playing worse...
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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby faaip » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:30 pm

1964white wrote:We ain't got one mate


There will be one somewhere in the squad, it's a big squad and someone must have leadership qualities..What we do know it aint Ayling and it aint Cooper. I might try Dallas
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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby weasel » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:44 pm

HarryofOz wrote: We didn't lose because Lonergan made two errors and conceded goals, we lost because the pressure that Brentford applied in dominating most of the game led to those errors which resulted in goals being conceded. You could see that Brentford were dodgy defensively, but we didn't play well enough to apply sufficient pressure to take advantage,


Easy to say that errors didn't cost us the game and suggest that pressure led to the errors but it wasn't really the case. We had weathered Brentford's early storm and had just started playing a bit of football ourselves when we conceded the first goal.

Second half was fairly even and anyone could have got the decisive goal but to concede a soft goal at that late stage fairly much meant the game was over - however by contrast to them scoring from a poor free kick we put in an excellent free kick a minute or so later which had 3 of our players queuing up to score but unfortunately it fell to Ayling.

In comparison to our capitulation last season to Brentford this was a much better performance. We also have to remember that TC inherited a team that was in freefall at the end of last season. Perhaps the good results early on in the season were the fluke and we have an average team that lost a lot of matches at the end of last season and has again now. TC certainly didn't inherit a team nailed on for a play-off place and as I have mentioned previously take Chris Wood out of last year's team and we finish bottom half.

What we have seen since our disastrous losing run at the end of last season is 4 of our better players leave (Taylor, Wood, Bartley & Green) and they have been replaced by a Cellino-esque scattergun approach where we have signed quantity instead of proven quality. The only player that really has looked the part consistently has been Saiz with Alioski and Pennington the only other players that are probably even first team squad standard. So [b]we have a vastly weakened team compared to last season and as such we have a weaker side than a team that won only 1 of their last 8 matches at the end of last season [/b](or 2 in 11 going even further back).

We have a weaker team than we did when Brentford completely outplayed us, a weaker team than one that got outplayed by a relegation threatened Burton when we were trying to get promoted, a weaker team than the one that ended the season with a limp draw at Wigan who had already been relegated.

As such we need to get a grip on reality. TC is not a miracle worker. I would suggest he hugely overachieved earlier on in the season and also somehow had us playing some eye-catching football in comparison to the drivel served up for a lot of last season, even when we were winning. We have lost most of the successful parts of the team (Green, Bartley, Taylor & Wood) and kept the average players that no one really wanted. The only player we have kept that had any real value is Pontus Jannsen and he is a pale shadow of the player he was. Ayling, Berardi, Cooper, O'Kane, Phillips, Dallas, Roofe etc - do you really think any premiership team or even top 6 championship side would have been trying to sign them?

But hey we are Leeds and we should be walking the division despite not spending as much money as we recouped in the transfer market and despite us losing 4 of our best players.

We flattered to deceive last season but in reality we are a very average team in a highly competitive division. Whereas most teams strengthened we significantly weakened and gambled on a lot of players that so far have not looked the part apart from in brief glimpses.
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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby 1964white » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:39 pm

weasel wrote:Easy to say that errors didn't cost us the game and suggest that pressure led to the errors but it wasn't really the case. We had weathered Brentford's early storm and had just started playing a bit of football ourselves when we conceded the first goal.

Second half was fairly even and anyone could have got the decisive goal but to concede a soft goal at that late stage fairly much meant the game was over - however by contrast to them scoring from a poor free kick we put in an excellent free kick a minute or so later which had 3 of our players queuing up to score but unfortunately it fell to Ayling.

In comparison to our capitulation last season to Brentford this was a much better performance. We also have to remember that TC inherited a team that was in freefall at the end of last season. Perhaps the good results early on in the season were the fluke and we have an average team that lost a lot of matches at the end of last season and has again now. TC certainly didn't inherit a team nailed on for a play-off place and as I have mentioned previously take Chris Wood out of last year's team and we finish bottom half.

What we have seen since our disastrous losing run at the end of last season is 4 of our better players leave (Taylor, Wood, Bartley & Green) and they have been replaced by a Cellino-esque scattergun approach where we have signed quantity instead of proven quality. The only player that really has looked the part consistently has been Saiz with Alioski and Pennington the only other players that are probably even first team squad standard. So [b]we have a vastly weakened team compared to last season and as such we have a weaker side than a team that won only 1 of their last 8 matches at the end of last season [/b](or 2 in 11 going even further back).

We have a weaker team than we did when Brentford completely outplayed us, a weaker team than one that got outplayed by a relegation threatened Burton when we were trying to get promoted, a weaker team than the one that ended the season with a limp draw at Wigan who had already been relegated.

As such we need to get a grip on reality. TC is not a miracle worker. I would suggest he hugely overachieved earlier on in the season and also somehow had us playing some eye-catching football in comparison to the drivel served up for a lot of last season, even when we were winning. We have lost most of the successful parts of the team (Green, Bartley, Taylor & Wood) and kept the average players that no one really wanted. The only player we have kept that had any real value is Pontus Jannsen and he is a pale shadow of the player he was. Ayling, Berardi, Cooper, O'Kane, Phillips, Dallas, Roofe etc - do you really think any premiership team or even top 6 championship side would have been trying to sign them?

But hey we are Leeds and we should be walking the division despite not spending as much money as we recouped in the transfer market and despite us losing 4 of our best players.

We flattered to deceive last season but in reality we are a very average team in a highly competitive division. Whereas most teams strengthened we significantly weakened and gambled on a lot of players that so far have not looked the part apart from in brief glimpses.


So a relegation battle would be no surprise then ?

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby becchio bear » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:15 pm

1964white wrote:TC is a bottler

Ducked out of naming a captain

Refuses to be ruthless with some of our so-called main players who have been pathetic

Continually makes excuses & lies the blame elsewhere for our players & his own inadaquacies


What do you mean by that? I thought we had a captain :?

Is it true that TC refuses to speak to the players after a game? that's weird if so. :bear:

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby 1964white » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:38 pm

becchio bear wrote:What do you mean by that? I thought we had a captain :?

Is it true that TC refuses to speak to the players after a game? that's weird if so. :bear:


TC asked the players to vote for the captain & the majority went for Cooper who couldn't lead a dog on a dark night :dog:

Christiansen didn't make the decision

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby becchio bear » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:58 pm

1964white wrote:TC asked the players to vote for the captain & the majority went for Cooper who couldn't lead a dog on a dark night :dog:

Christiansen didn't make the decision


That's awful!! being the captain should be deemed an honour not picked by the other players, it's like something that would happen at school!

What about the not talking to players?

Also is it true he doesn't let the players know who is playing and in what position until an hour before a match? :bear:

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Re: TC - Stay or Go?

Postby gotagetz » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:17 pm

I'm sure that I read TC was going to stick with the same formation that got them to the top of the league. With 7 losses out of 9 surely he's got to realise that it's not working and other managers have done their homework. I would say November is his and the club's defining month of this season. Fortunate to be where we are due to the better than average start we had or we would have been bottom half for sure.


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