A Class Above

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Cjay
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A Class Above

Post by Cjay »

With the poor form and loss of confidence (both fans and players). :(

Thought would do something positive :-D

List players with the pedigree or the genuine potential to be considered "to good for this league". Some will miss out because they may not have shown there potential yet.

Pontus Jansson
Where else to start, the big Swede is to good for this league. He wasnt let go by Torino because he wasnt good enough, it was reported to be more concerns about his fitness. Additionally, he still managed 20plus Serie A and 6 Europa League apps during his time.

Pablo Hernandez
Lot of talk from Wolves fans about the pedigree of there Portuguese lads, but for pedigree, nobody has more of it then the Spanish international in this division. Over 100 La Liga apps, a Confederations Cup winner with Spain (Called up to replace Iniesta), a few seasons in the Premier league. Could he still be playing at a higher level, the Leicester performance suggests yes.

Ronaldo Vieira
19 years old, close to 50 games at this level, a key member of last seasons squad, a Toulon Cup winner last summer. This season, the best midfielder in every game he has played. Every bit as talented as Lewis Cook, no reason they couldn't be Englands midfield in a few years. Not faultless, passing could improve, but at 19 he has plenty of time for that.

Pierre-Michel Lasogga
Bit of a controversial pick perhaps, but he has already proven himself at a higher level. 30 odd goals in what amounts to about 80 games in the Bundesliga, but for injury he would already be a full international for Germany (no easy feat), and when he has been good, he has been very good for us. He has shown link up play, a touch, finishing that is a class above most in this league, form is temporary, class is permanent, he was regarded international class not long ago.

Samu Saiz

I dont know how he has made it to 27 (almost ) and not got to a higher level. His touch, dribbling, vision and all round class is to good for this league, of all the players, right now, he is standing out as far to good. Probably similar to how Pablo would have looked playing in this league in his prime, just a class above everyone else on the pitch.

Gianni Alioski
Perhaps a bit controversial, but i couldn't leave him out. Watched him for Macedonia multiple times now, and he ooozes class on the international stage, his passing, vision, pace, control and work rate is something you rarely see in the same player. We got a glimpse of his abilities earlier on this season, but even those performances weren't as good as the ones for Macedonia (the assist in the last game needs watching if you havent already). Hand on heart i believe he is to good for this league.

So there we go, there are others who were borderline and this is just my opinion :-D

Its not all gloom and doom. . .

MOT.

Anyone else who should be on there? Or shouldn't :twisted:
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Re: A Class Above

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Klich, if we could ever get a chance!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: A Class Above

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Ditto
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Re: A Class Above

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Cjay wrote:Pontus Jansson
Where else to start, the big Swede is to good for this league. He wasnt let go by Torino because he wasnt good enough, it was reported to be more concerns about his fitness. Additionally, he still managed 20plus Serie A and 6 Europa League apps during his time
Class CB, best we've seen at ER since our premiership days
Pontus needs help around him, he spends far too much time & effort covering the inadequacies of his fellow defenders. Last year he had around him a leader in Bartley, Ayling in form,
Berardi his normal consistent self playing out of natural position with Green outstanding behind him.
Cjay wrote:Pablo Hernandez
Lot of talk from Wolves fans about the pedigree of there Portuguese lads, but for pedigree, nobody has more of it then the Spanish international in this division. Over 100 La Liga apps, a Confederations Cup winner with Spain (Called up to replace Iniesta), a few seasons in the Premier league. Could he still be playing at a higher level, the Leicester performance suggests yes
Pablo has a touch of class
Unfortunately lacks consistency although he is quite capable of creating opportunities even when he's not at his best. I believe the problem is he is too quick thinking for his teammates, the only player who is on his wavelength is Saiz
Cjay wrote:Ronaldo Vieira
19 years old, close to 50 games at this level, a key member of last seasons squad, a Toulon Cup winner last summer. This season, the best midfielder in every game he has played. Every bit as talented as Lewis Cook, no reason they couldn't be Englands midfield in a few years. Not faultless, passing could improve, but at 19 he has plenty of time for that

Fantastic prospect who needs to improve his distribution which hopefully will come in time. According to our fans 'he's only a teenager, he never gives the ball away' apparently :roll: that song may go when he turns 20yo. I knew he had something when he came on for the last ten minutes at Preston in a dull 0-0 encounter under Steve Evans
Cjay wrote:Pierre-Michel Lasogga
Bit of a controversial pick perhaps, but he has already proven himself at a higher level. 30 odd goals in what amounts to about 80 games in the Bundesliga, but for injury he would already be a full international for Germany (no easy feat), and when he has been good, he has been very good for us. He has shown link up play, a touch, finishing that is a class above most in this league, form is temporary, class is permanent, he was regarded international class not long ago
No doubt he has class in his locker, annoyed with his lack of effort & attitude on a couple of occasions so much so I would even start Roofe ahead of him v Boro' just to teach him a lesson.
Doesn't help him when Lonergan is continually hoofing the ball upfield, not his game !
Cjay wrote:Samu Saiz[/b]
I dont know how he has made it to 27 (almost ) and not got to a higher level. His touch, dribbling, vision and all round class is to good for this league, of all the players, right now, he is standing out as far to good. Probably similar to how Pablo would have looked playing in this league in his prime, just a class above everyone else on the pitch
Oozes class & our best player by a country mile this season, a joy to watch. Samu is worth the gate money alone. Will fetch near £20m come the end of 2017/18 & will be playing in the premiership next season.
Cjay wrote:Gianni Alioski
Perhaps a bit controversial, but i couldn't leave him out. Watched him for Macedonia multiple times now, and he ooozes class on the international stage, his passing, vision, pace, control and work rate is something you rarely see in the same player. We got a glimpse of his abilities earlier on this season, but even those performances weren't as good as the ones for Macedonia (the assist in the last game needs watching if you havent already). Hand on heart i believe he is to good for this league
Haven't seen any of his Macedonia displays so I'll have to take your word for it .
On what I have witnessed so far for Leeds he is not an automatic choice for our first XI yet imo !
Maybe he needs time to adjust to the championship, he has something, he just needs to produce the silky skills he supposedly possesses
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Re: A Class Above

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hector wrote:Ditto
There you go Cjay, a more comprehensive reply than from the ditto man :wink:
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Re: A Class Above

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1964white wrote:There you go Cjay, a more comprehensive reply than from the ditto man :wink:
1473206672301.gif
1473206672301.gif (17.22 KiB) Viewed 2279 times
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Re: A Class Above

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hector wrote:1473206672301.gif
:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

Up yours :wink:
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Re: A Class Above

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1964white wrote:

Haven't seen any of his Macedonia displays so I'll have to take your word for it .
On what I have witnessed so far for Leeds he is not an automatic choice for our first XI yet imo !
Maybe he needs time to adjust to the championship, he has something, he just needs to produce the silky skills he supposedly possesses
https://mobile.twitter.com/ezgjanaliosk ... 36/video/1

Dont often see that sort of movement from his teammates at Leeds . . Perhaps thats part of the problem.
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Re: A Class Above

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1964white wrote:There you go Cjay, a more comprehensive reply than from the ditto man :wink:
Nothing more needs to be said :roflmao:
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Re: A Class Above

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You're right though Cjay - when on form he's a handful. I wish he could show that form again for us.
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Re: A Class Above

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Norm wrote:You're right though Cjay - when on form he's a handful. I wish he could show that form again for us.
Who you talking about Norm?
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Re: A Class Above

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Alioski after I watched the clip.
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Re: A Class Above

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Norm wrote:Alioski after I watched the clip.
He really was impressive.

Vocally defended Ali a lot, mainly because i dont think he has been as bad as has been suggested at times. But also because i have took the time to watch him a few times for Macedonia and he has looked a real handful each time.

There is a quality player there imo.
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Re: A Class Above

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Cjay wrote:

He really was impressive.

Vocally defended Ali a lot, mainly because i dont think he has been as bad as has been suggested at times. But also because i have took the time to watch him a few times for Macedonia and he has looked a real handful each time.

There is a quality player there imo.
It's hard to understand the dynamic of our potentially calamitous loss of form and Ali has unfortunately been one whose form has dipped, but he's potentially a game changer and league winner with Saiz and possibly Ekuban.

Like you, I like TC and I think he could be really good for us - unfortunately I'm in a minority because he seems to have got himself in some cross-current of player turmoil (PJ etc.). Let us hope he has been able to come up with a 'Bristol City' style formula for the 'Boro game to give himself (and us) some breathing space.

I think one of the biggest problems at the club is Orta - he's not as good as he thinks he is, as evidenced by the lack of a couple of decent defenders, which we really need.
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Re: A Class Above

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Norm wrote:It's hard to understand the dynamic of our potentially calamitous loss of form and Ali has unfortunately been one whose form has dipped, but he's potentially a game changer and league winner with Saiz and possibly Ekuban.

Like you, I like TC and I think he could be really good for us - unfortunately I'm in a minority because he seems to have got himself in some cross-current of player turmoil (PJ etc.). Let us hope he has been able to come up with a 'Bristol City' style formula for the 'Boro game to give himself (and us) some breathing space.

I think one of the biggest problems at the club is Orta - he's not as good as he thinks he is, as evidenced by the lack of a couple of decent defenders, which we really need.
Excellent post. Alioski definitely has potential but like many of our signings is still adapting to the championship. In some games, when he had a bit more space because we were leading, he has looked superb and the key I think depends on how well others play around him.

I think the biggest problem is not Orta as such but fan expectation. For me Orta has signed a lot of players with potential rather than splashing big cash on ready made players used to the championship. Now some of these players, such as Saiz, has quickly shown his class whereas others will take longer and be more inconsistent. What Orta probably wasn't expecting was the poor form of two of our most consistent players from last year in PJ and Ayling and more recently O'Kane's form suffering. Realistically the players that we would expect to be performing consistently (those 3 named) haven't and those were the players to build the team around.

As such we had the excellent start to the season, the false dawn perhaps, where everything clicked and we looked great. If we had struggled but then started to improve, like we did last year, then people would now all be singing TC's praises.
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Re: A Class Above

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weasel wrote:Excellent post. Alioski definitely has potential but like many of our signings is still adapting to the championship. In some games, when he had a bit more space because we were leading, he has looked superb and the key I think depends on how well others play around him.

I think the biggest problem is not Orta as such but fan expectation. For me Orta has signed a lot of players with potential rather than splashing big cash on ready made players used to the championship. Now some of these players, such as Saiz, has quickly shown his class whereas others will take longer and be more inconsistent. What Orta probably wasn't expecting was the poor form of two of our most consistent players from last year in PJ and Ayling and more recently O'Kane's form suffering. Realistically the players that we would expect to be performing consistently (those 3 named) haven't and those were the players to build the team around.

As such we had the excellent start to the season, the false dawn perhaps, where everything clicked and we looked great. If we had struggled but then started to improve, like we did last year, then people would now all be singing TC's praises.
Saiz has settled quickly because he is class

The others look quite ordinary & out are of their depth at times
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Re: A Class Above

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Norm wrote:It's hard to understand the dynamic of our potentially calamitous loss of form and Ali has unfortunately been one whose form has dipped, but he's potentially a game changer and league winner with Saiz and possibly Ekuban.

Like you, I like TC and I think he could be really good for us - unfortunately I'm in a minority because he seems to have got himself in some cross-current of player turmoil (PJ etc.). Let us hope he has been able to come up with a 'Bristol City' style formula for the 'Boro game to give himself (and us) some breathing space.

I think one of the biggest problems at the club is Orta - he's not as good as he thinks he is, as evidenced by the lack of a couple of decent defenders, which we really need.
Excellent post.

He is, there is a lot to like about Alioski, and many foreign players struggle early doors, nothing strange in that. Saiz hasnt, but he may do in the future, hit a dip in form, wont make him a poor player just an out of form one. Far to early to be writings off players as soms on social media have.

I'm in the minority with you to then, i don't want to see TC sacked, he is trying to make us play a style of football that isnt easy and will take time. Took time for Pep at Manchester City also, its not easy to change a teams style of play, the players in the squad from last year were told to be solid and keep it simple. This season they are told to play with pace and width and style, totally different.

Don't see a standout candidate to replace TC anyhow, Big Sam won't come, Karanka had his issues at Boro, there isnt an obvious choice. Still only 3 points outside the playoffs, could be worse, ask Birmingham, they sacked Gary Rowett when just outside the playoffs, almost ended up going down and are on there 3rd manager since.

Not sure on Orta, the thread i did on his Boro signings showed logic to them, he cant be blamed for them bot performing how you'd expect, especially the likes of Jordan Rhodes. Orta does have to take responsibility for the defence, that is down to him ino and that unfortunately has been our biggest problem.
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Re: A Class Above

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Orta's signings who weren't at ER last season

Andy Lonergan
Felix Wiedwald
Cameron Borthwick-Jackson
Matthew Pennington
Vurnon Anita
Conor Shaughnessy
Ezgjan Alioski
Samuel Sáiz
Madger Gomes
Mateusz Klich
Pierre-Michel Lasogga
Jay-Roy Grot
Paweł Cibicki
Caleb Ekuban

Fourteen signings & only one of them can walk into the First XI :shock:

Have to say I'm impressed with young Shaughnessy but TC obviously rates Cooper & Pennington above him

I do wish I could rate what some of you see in the above lot over the last 14 games I've attended.
All I have witnessed is one class player amongst a bunch inconsistent signings with the majority of them looking totally unfit, maybe there are a few with potential for the future but this lot are not going to win a league like the championship or take us into the play-offs, far too many weaknesses & lack of experience. Hopefully one or two will prove me wrong on my three visits to ER, Molineaux & Oakwell in the next week or so. I won't hold my breath !
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Re: A Class Above

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1964white wrote:Orta's signings who weren't at ER last season

Andy Lonergan-solid back up (all he was meant to be)
Felix Wiedwald-highly thought off at a top half German side.
Cameron Borthwick-Jackson-Talent isnt in question or Man Utd would have sold him outright like many before, it's attitude.
Matthew Pennington-Very well thought of at Everton.
Vurnon Anita-versatile and liked wherever he has been, was considered a steal by most fans on here originally.
Conor Shaughnessy-a surprise, hasnt disgraced himself.
Ezgjan Alioski-unfairly hounded imo, Dallas, Roofe and Sacko hardly proven replacements.
Samuel Sáiz-been superb, but easily couldn't have been, Orta deserves huge credit for this alone (Saiz himself said so).
Madger Gomes-one for the future maybe i dunno.
Mateusz Klich-another unfairly hounded, O'Kane has done far worse then one slip.
Pierre-Michel Lasogga-1 in 2 record 1 less assist then wood already.
Jay-Roy Grot-young, raw, theres potential.
Paweł Cibicki-no idea what the point was tbh.
Caleb Ekuban-done alrighr before his injury

Fourteen signings & only one of them can walk into the First XI :shock:

Have to say I'm impressed with young Shaughnessy but TC obviously rates Cooper & Pennington above him

I do wish I could rate what some of you see in the above lot over the last 14 games I've attended.
All I have witnessed is one class player amongst a bunch inconsistent signings with the majority of them looking totally unfit, maybe there are a few with potential for the future but this lot are not going to win a league like the championship or take us into the play-offs, far too many weaknesses & lack of experience. Hopefully one or two will prove me wrong on my three visits to ER, Molineaux & Oakwell in the next week or so. I won't hold my breath !
Leeds fans are a fickle lot, for all the criticism of Lasogga its worth remembering Wood got 13 goals in his first season, Lassie has 5 already.

Roofe and Dallas are totally unproven at this level after more time then Alioski and both were heavily lambasted last season, now they should start instead.

Anita isnt good enough, but when signed fans were delighted at such quality on a free.

Grot is 19!!!!!! And apparently he is one of the worst strikers ever based on some sub apps.

Klich isnt good enough because he slipped, O'Kane passes the ball unchallenged to someone and concedes a goal, gives the ball away often, rarely tackles, but he is class.

Had we signed Saiz summer before we did then fans would have been furious at another cheap foreign import (he had a very average career up to then).

Hear time and time again how difficult the English leagues are, foreign signings up and down the tiers tell you how shocked they were. Think of all the quality players who have struggled, Falcao, Shevchenko, Veron, Forlan, Mangala, Claudio Bravo, Andriy Arshavin, list goes on. All very talented players, but struggled . 4 of those were genuine world class players at points. Were those players not good enough for the English game? Of course they were.
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Re: A Class Above

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Cjay wrote:

Leeds fans are a fickle lot, for all the criticism of Lasogga its worth remembering Wood got 13 goals in his first season, Lassie has 5 already.

Roofe and Dallas are totally unproven at this level after more time then Alioski and both were heavily lambasted last season, now they should start instead.

Anita isnt good enough, but when signed fans were delighted at such quality on a free.

Grot is 19!!!!!! And apparently he is one of the worst strikers ever based on some sub apps.

Klich isnt good enough because he slipped, O'Kane passes the ball unchallenged to someone and concedes a goal, gives the ball away often, rarely tackles, but he is class.

Had we signed Saiz summer before we did then fans would have been furious at another cheap foreign import (he had a very average career up to then).

Hear time and time again how difficult the English leagues are, foreign signings up and down the tiers tell you how shocked they were. Think of all the quality players who have struggled, Falcao, Shevchenko, Veron, Forlan, Mangala, Claudio Bravo, Andriy Arshavin, list goes on. All very talented players, but struggled . 4 of those were genuine world class players at points. Were those players not good enough for the English game? Of course they were.
I'll never forget Twiggs slating Howson time after time purely on the say so of his mates who attended games when he was actually class itself - look at the pass from Howson that led to Beckford's goal at OT when we beat scum in the FA Cup in January 2010 as an example. Twigg's mates were people who attended matches but yet couldn't seem to distinguish between class and dross, the kind of fan who would have preferred that journeyman Kilkenny to Howson because Howson would take the intelligent route as opposed to Kilkenny's headless chicken.

Horses for courses I suppose.
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