Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 78662
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by 1964white » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:38 pm

An absolute shambles

Every time we have a one goal lead in the last ten minutes Christiansen brings on another centre back, goes to five at the back, concedes midfield and invites on the opposition. It’s worked until today but it’s negative and an accident waiting to happen and the accident did happen in spectacular style

We could also ask why we are so cautious about playing new signings. Vieira was blatantly unfit today.

Why did we defend so deep and allow Morison to drop off to be marked by Vieira?

Why was Morison being marked by Berardi at set pieces?

Why was Vieira playing centre back for at least five minutes after Cooper was sent off? It cost us a goal?

Why was that number 35 completely unmarked at set pieces?

Why on earth were we left with Pablo playing up front for the last 15 minutes? Hernandez has no pace and can’t hold up play - completely pointless!

What has happened to our own set pieces? Has the coach left?

Absolutely shambolic game plan and tactics from minute one, turned it around and handed the game to them on a plate. Amateurish !

And then there is the disciplinary shambles

Five players shown the red card this season consequently missing many games

Ten bookings for Phillips therefore another player missing games

I believe our assistant coach was sent off today too

Our form

Lost 4 of our last 5 games v the likes of Birmingham, Newport, Ipswich & Millwall, no top teams there.

Lost 12 of our last 21 games

Dumped out of the 3rd round of the FA Cup by the Welsh worldbeaters Newport so no cup run to look forward to for our fans

Rarely dominate teams, can only think of 2 out of our last 17 where we've been in total control.
Generally we are lucky to dominate games for 30 minutes, difficult to win games when we only turn up for a 33% of a match

Is Thomas the right man to take us up to the next level?

I've defended TC & felt sorry for him at times as I don't think he has the necessary tools required but one has to ask has he got the tactical nous to achieve success at Leeds ?

Newport white
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:31 pm

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by Newport white » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:08 pm

Need someone who realises that whoever plays Leeds raise their game by 50% because it’s Leeds, I would stick with the manager until the end of the season as constantly changing hasn’t done us any favours in the past, we desperately need some strong physical no nonsense bruisers to control games and protect our playmakers, a lot of the games we have lost this season is because we have been bullied including twice against F*****g Millwall!!

fred
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 771
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Herisau

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by fred » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:14 pm

Impossible to say...hindsight would be required.
But today I must admit that it was clearly coming in the last 10 minutes or so.
Not sure if it was pur coincidence that the `onslaught` began, after our substitutions
or not. Roofe went of because, in his own words, he was `empty`. Lasogga presumably also.
Bringing in fresh energy was certainly a right decision, but not sure if O`Shaughnessy is the ideal
player to come on and do what is neessary. And with virtually no man up front, you do invite
the opposition to push you back.

Last 5 games we`ve really have fucked up, thanks to ourselves mainly, a bit being bad luck.

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 9601
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by Cjay » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:24 pm

1964white wrote:An absolute shambles

Every time we have a one goal lead in the last ten minutes Christiansen brings on another centre back, goes to five at the back, concedes midfield and invites on the opposition. It’s worked until today but it’s negative and an accident waiting to happen and the accident did happen in spectacular style

We could also ask why we are so cautious about playing new signings. Vieira was blatantly unfit today. I dont know, its an odd one, especially as TC is usually very careful about bringing players back from injury, kinda felt like Ronnie was thrown to the Wolves a bit.

Why did we defend so deep and allow Morison to drop off to be marked by Vieira? We usually have quite a high line, again strange.

Why was Morison being marked by Berardi at set pieces? Didnt notice this, odd that he was, but we arent blessed with much height.

Why was Vieira playing centre back for at least five minutes after Cooper was sent off? It cost us a goal? Because TC likes his players to be versatile, i dunno, i felt sorry for Vieira overall.

Why was that number 35 completely unmarked at set pieces? Again didnt notice this

Why on earth were we left with Pablo playing up front for the last 15 minutes? Hernandez has no pace and can’t hold up play - completely pointless! Because there was nobody else? If true, Roofe asked to come off and Lassie was shot, needed Dallas and Alioski on the flanks because they have more energy then anyone else.

What has happened to our own set pieces? Has the coach left? Dont think so

Absolutely shambolic game plan and tactics from minute one, turned it around and handed the game to them on a plate. Amateurish ! Credit to TC for the shift in the second half, but then he naused it up with his strange choices.

And then there is the disciplinary shambles

Five players shown the red card this season consequently missing many games

Ten bookings for Phillips therefore another player missing games

I believe our assistant coach was sent off today too

Our assistant is a twat, he was the one called out for waving imaginary yellows before. IM concerned to about the sendings off and suspensions, Phillips was amateur hour, Saiz and O'Kane's there's no excuse, Cooper has a habit of lunging in and while harsh it was his own poor control in the first place. Interestingly, O'Kane apologizes for Saiz, gets sent off, Cooper apologies for O'Kane , gets sent off, KEEP JANSSON AWAY FROM PRESS CONFERENCES .

Our form

Lost 4 of our last 5 games v the likes of Birmingham, Newport, Ipswich & Millwall, no top teams there.

Lost 12 of our last 21 games

Dumped out of the 3rd round of the FA Cup by the Welsh worldbeaters Newport so no cup run to look forward to for our fans

Rarely dominate teams, can only think of 2 out of our last 17 where we've been in total control.
Generally we are lucky to dominate games for 30 minutes, difficult to win games when we only turn up for a 33% of a match

Its not good enough plain and simple, regardless of if we deserved more from some of the games, we got nothing, and thats frustrating, Ipswich was frustrating, but today was even worse, we basically lost the game twice.

Is Thomas the right man to take us up to the next level?

I've defended TC & felt sorry for him at times as I don't think he has the necessary tools required but one has to ask has he got the tactical nous to achieve success at Leeds ?
I like you have defended TC, and i still believe had we replaced quality for quality, Bartley, Wood, Taylor, plus just one or two decent options for some depth then TC would have us top 2. I really do feel for him in that respect, he hasnt been given the quality im sure he expected when he took the job. He has to do the best he can with this squad, and they haven't helped him multiple times, the sendings off, the basic comedy errors that have cost us many points.

Look at our first 11, at its best, Weidwald, Ayling, Jansson, Coops, de bock, Vieira, Forshaw, Ali, Hernandez, Saiz, Lassie. on paper its not a bad line up.

But then you look to the bench, Lonners, Bera, Penny, Shaunie, O'Kkane, Phillips, Dallas, Roofe etc etc. How many of those would you class as top quality Championship players? Not many, some may improve, some may impress (De Bock, Forshaw), but a lot are always going to be solid but inconsistent, because they are only solid players, do a job, occasionally great, mainly average.

Dallas, Phillips, Roofe , O'Kane, Cooper, Berardi, Ayling, Penny, Shaunie, give the new signings a pass (1st season always patient rightly or wrongly), how many of those were we to sell would get into the starting 11 of any of our rivals? 6 of those have been regulars this season, thats half a team of ok championship players, mediocre players finish in a mediocre position.

Again this has turned into a bit of a rant :)

If you get rid of TC then who replaces him?
its as simple as that, who is there who we could (1) realistically get (2) would work under a DOF (3) would play the style of play that clearly we strive for and (4) would appease the demanding fan base (5) could do a better job with what is a mid table squad.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 78662
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by 1964white » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:36 pm

Midfield dominated ✔
Can't win aerial duels ✔
Bullied everywhere on the pitch✔
Poor discipline ✔
Captain Cooper usual meltdown when the pressure is on ✔
No tactics ✔
TC same old same old ✔

User avatar
becchio bear
Queen of Quotes
Queen of Quotes
Posts: 17746
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:19 pm
Twitter: @Becchiobear
Location: Bramley Leeds

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by becchio bear » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:36 pm

I feel it is time to go. I have gone with keep and go throughout the season so far. Today I was aghast at his subs. We had no strikers on the bench. I wouldn't have taken Roofe or Lasogga off quite frankly. TC is frustrating and annoying. :bear:

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 78662
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by 1964white » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:46 pm

becchio bear wrote:I feel it is time to go. I have gone with keep and go throughout the season so far. Today I was aghast at his subs. We had no strikers on the bench. I wouldn't have taken Roofe or Lasogga off quite frankly. TC is frustrating and annoying. :bear:
Correct young lady, we were left stranded with tired legs for the last 15 minutes.

Taking off both strikers with no alternative to play upfront gave Millwall the incentive to go on & win the game, a game we could have had in the bag had we gone for the 4th goal as they were looking ropey at 3-2, to think we conceded two goals in the last seven minutes with five at the back & virtually no midfield :(

User avatar
gessa
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22886
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:40 pm

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by gessa » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:03 pm

I believe Roofe wanted to come off and Lassie was injured, that's fair enough nothing he can do about that but what he can do is replace them properly , which he's not doing. The way to be a successful manager in any walk of life or just be a sucess is learn by your mistakes , he's not doing that . The more I see and hear of him the more I think he's a weak man, weak men get nowhete.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 78662
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by 1964white » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:04 pm

Christiansen not learning his lessons

Every team we've played the 2nd time round have done better against us

Burton 1st Game Won 5-0 2nd game Won 2-1.....only victory but we made hard work of it

Birmingham 1st Game Won 3-2 ; 2nd game lost 0-1

Forest 1st Game Won 2-0; 2nd Game Drew 0-0

Ipswich 1st Game Won 3-2; 2nd game lost 0-1

Newport 1st Game Won 5-1; 2nd Game Lost 1-2

Millwall 1st Game Lost 0-1; 2nd Game lost 3-4


Going to be a tough run-in over the next 18 games if that pattern continues

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 78662
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by 1964white » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:10 pm

gessa wrote:I believe Roofe wanted to come off and Lassie was injured, that's fair enough nothing he can do about that but what he can do is replace them properly, which he's not doing. The way to be a successful manager in any walk of life or just be a success is learn by your mistakes, he's not doing that. The more I see and hear of him the more I think he's a weak man, weak men get nowhere.
Just highlighted TC not learning from his previous errors on my above post mate

Today Wall absolutely bullied & battered us just as they did down at The Den

His Plan B is to bring two centre-backs on :oops: :duno:

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 9601
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by Cjay » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:32 pm

The one guy id have really liked was Oscar Garcia.

But he became Olympiakos manager 2 weeks ago.

I cant think of anyone who meets the criteria so i say stick with TC

Norm
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6310
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 2:51 am
Location: SW Missouri USA

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by Norm » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:03 pm

I'd hate to see him go because he's trying to play the right way, but I have to admit his apparent stubborn streak regarding O'Kane, Phillips, Shog and Klich (each for different reasons) drives me to a negative about him. I still don't see the games because LUTV is crap but, from what is said on here and sometimes by the media he just doesn't seem to get that his selections and subs are the cause of our inconsistency.

I think today has killed off our quest for promotion and, unless our new midfielder can help us to dominate midfield, I don't think we're going to improve much. We've apparently accelerated our slump, despite a mostly good second half, because they had more will to win in the end. I think our lack of seeming will to win, right until the end, is the most telling factor for us, unless they just got diabolically lucky.

All that said, I'm going to say stay, because he did manage to get them fired up at half-time and they probably got a little lucky with our tired legs at the finish (that's another story). I'd hate all his good points to be cast adrift because I do tend to believe in him, and I don't another Warnock/Pulis type in charge again.

For those who want him to go, the real problem would be with whom do we replace him? tbh most replacements would want to change the system, thereby undoing what has been instilled for over half a season now, even though it's working far from perfectly atm. Such a change might lead to a turnover of some of the good we've got and a whole new slew of hoof-its.

I think, on balance, I'd cast my opinion to retaining him, with the hope that he'll begin to smell the coffee.

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 33171
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by faaip » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:36 pm

TBH I've no idea, as I posted elsewhere he's struggling with the learning curve and some of his attributes are having a negative effect.

He's arrogant as shown by the team he took to Newport and probably thinking he had the game won today
He's intransigent, happy to make the same mistake over and over again if it's what he believes
He's unforgiving, the Klich tweet still rankles it seems
He's getting out thought by a lot of managers recently, I can't work out if he has a game plan to beat other teams or if he's just trying to play a style of football and screw what the other team are doing

On the plus side he does seem to want to change the way we play football and make us entertaining, and there are flashes of goodness..

is that enough? Again no idea. I hate firing managers (Warnock/McDermott aside) so I'm erring on the side of he stays till the end of the season but we have to finish strong
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious...

....but I am...

....so that's how it comes out

User avatar
whiteswan
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6965
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:10 am

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by whiteswan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:52 am

I think there was a similar topic a few months ago....I said go.

radebe88
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by radebe88 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:01 am

I disagree with so much in this thread I don't know where to start but i will go with Saturday's game and TC's decisions.

Lasogga and Roofe had to come off due to injuries and fatigue lets get that out of the way. In regards to bringing on our tallest defensive player (Shaugnessy) when we are down to ten men, shattered due to the incredible effort the players had put in to the 2nd half and Millwalls main threat was from aerial battles.....what do you want? Imagine if he brought Anita on and he got beaten in the air at the back post you would all be going ape! It was always going to be an onslaught for the last 5/10 mins.

The way TC got a reaction from the players in that second half to come out flying like they did with 10 men made me incredibly proud in a way numorous managers before have severely failed to do. I think some people do not understand how hard it is to score 3 goals playing with 10 men and TC deserves credit for that.

TC cannot help the actions of Saiz against newport or O'Kane against Ipswich and Coopers Red was incredibly unlucky. These were all games firstly I felt we were on course to win, and secondly left us short of quality due to the bans they caused. Imagine Saiz yeaterday, we could have been 2-0 at half time our selves.

Sacking the manager will not solve the fact that we are half a season into radz project here. People were calling for Lee Johnsons head at Bristol City last season and look at them now.

Decisions look bad everytime a team loses but managers rarely get any credit when a change works. We need stability more than ever, without it we are the same old Leeds that we have been for the last 15 years.

Azkalwhite
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:15 am

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by Azkalwhite » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:03 am

radebe88 wrote:I disagree with so much in this thread I don't know where to start but i will go with Saturday's game and TC's decisions.

Lasogga and Roofe had to come off due to injuries and fatigue lets get that out of the way. In regards to bringing on our tallest defensive player (Shaugnessy) when we are down to ten men, shattered due to the incredible effort the players had put in to the 2nd half and Millwalls main threat was from aerial battles.....what do you want? Imagine if he brought Anita on and he got beaten in the air at the back post you would all be going ape! It was always going to be an onslaught for the last 5/10 mins.

The way TC got a reaction from the players in that second half to come out flying like they did with 10 men made me incredibly proud in a way numorous managers before have severely failed to do. I think some people do not understand how hard it is to score 3 goals playing with 10 men and TC deserves credit for that.

TC cannot help the actions of Saiz against newport or O'Kane against Ipswich and Coopers Red was incredibly unlucky. These were all games firstly I felt we were on course to win, and secondly left us short of quality due to the bans they caused. Imagine Saiz yeaterday, we could have been 2-0 at half time our selves.

Sacking the manager will not solve the fact that we are half a season into radz project here. People were calling for Lee Johnsons head at Bristol City last season and look at them now.

Decisions look bad everytime a team loses but managers rarely get any credit when a change works. We need stability more than ever, without it we are the same old Leeds that we have been for the last 15 years.
:tup: A big ditto

User avatar
herefordbornleedsboy
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:42 am
Location: Hereford

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by herefordbornleedsboy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:13 am

radebe88 wrote:I disagree with so much in this thread I don't know where to start but i will go with Saturday's game and TC's decisions.

Lasogga and Roofe had to come off due to injuries and fatigue lets get that out of the way. In regards to bringing on our tallest defensive player (Shaugnessy) when we are down to ten men, shattered due to the incredible effort the players had put in to the 2nd half and Millwalls main threat was from aerial battles.....what do you want? Imagine if he brought Anita on and he got beaten in the air at the back post you would all be going ape! It was always going to be an onslaught for the last 5/10 mins.

The way TC got a reaction from the players in that second half to come out flying like they did with 10 men made me incredibly proud in a way numorous managers before have severely failed to do. I think some people do not understand how hard it is to score 3 goals playing with 10 men and TC deserves credit for that.

TC cannot help the actions of Saiz against newport or O'Kane against Ipswich and Coopers Red was incredibly unlucky. These were all games firstly I felt we were on course to win, and secondly left us short of quality due to the bans they caused. Imagine Saiz yeaterday, we could have been 2-0 at half time our selves.

Sacking the manager will not solve the fact that we are half a season into radz project here. People were calling for Lee Johnsons head at Bristol City last season and look at them now.

Decisions look bad everytime a team loses but managers rarely get any credit when a change works. We need stability more than ever, without it we are the same old Leeds that we have been for the last 15 years.
I could not agree more with the sentiments echoed here.
We are 6 months in to what is a 5 year plan. We are building and there are encouraging signs everywhere. It is difficult to be patient when we have had to be for so so long but finally it seems we have some stability at the club.
Id give him until the end of next season with some real investment over the summer to pick the players that he needs.

Clacton White
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by Clacton White » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:33 am

Azkalwhite wrote::tup: A big ditto
I think TC deserves another season . He is learning this league , hopefully he'll learn a lot and come out flying next season . This season is looking like a write off right now , but the club are still in with a chance of play offs ( unlikely I admit on current form ) .
There are a number of underperformers who should not be anywhere near first team and do not really deserve the Leeds shirt ( Ayling , O'FuckingKane , Lonergren ) . The squad depth is really thin as there is little to replace key performers when they are out. The two new signings plus the Japanese loan out - well they will hopefully make a huge difference , though again more likely next season .
The club are throwing away stupid points , an idiotic disciplinary record , playing what amount to crap underperformers regularly without giving more deserving their chance.......hopefully this is something TC will learn from . What do we want ? a Pulis side ......people will soon be complaining about anti-football , a team of giant centre defenders and defensive midfielders . The good thing there is Pulis is at Boro . There isn't a lot out there , hopefully TC tactics will come good , there are signs of a decent side , its more footballing side than Monk's but a few key area's need addressing . Probably 3 players short of a promotion side - then again most of the division probably is from 12th upwards .

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 78662
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by 1964white » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:02 am

radebe88 wrote:
TC cannot help the actions of Saiz against newport or O'Kane against Ipswich and Coopers Red was incredibly unlucky. These were all games firstly I felt we were on course to win, and secondly left us short of quality due to the bans they caused. Imagine Saiz yeaterday, we could have been 2-0 at half time our selves
Christiansen as a coach/manager is ultimately responsible for how his players behave. Our disciplinary record under Monk last season wasn't great, this time round it is worst than it's ever been. Five reds & a bucketful of yellows has probably wrecked our season :2ndyell: :booked:
I don't know how many times I've said we give far too many free-kicks away through poor challenges plus showing total disrespect mouthing off to the officials.....sometimes I think our players are brain-dead as they never learn from their erratic actions. It is up to TC to bring these idiotic actions to a halt if we are to progress in the future !

User avatar
Ratscoot
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2337
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:52 pm

Re: Should he GO or Should he STAY ?

Post by Ratscoot » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:13 am

He may as well stay the rest of the season now in a hope he gets some more quality in this window and learns a few vital lessons during the rest of the season
A bumble bee under the laws of physics shouldnt be able to fly, but it does because no one has told it that it can't

Post Reply

Advertisment