Paul Heckingbottom

[1964white]

I totally agree with a lot of the posts, PH is not good enough, he is out of his depth but more so the Orta signings are not good enough. I don’t care who the coach is, this lot signed by Orta are a shambles with one or two exceptions. PH has to be shown the door along with Orta then we need to go all out for a decent replacement with knowledge of this division and give them control of the budget.

Changes are required if we have any ambition next season, if not it could be curtains !

[Richard]

We need a clear out, Orta and PH shown the door side by side, the signings are not good enough nor are the coaches. Not just PH the set pieces coach too, what do they actually practice on the training field? We look like conceding from every set piece, we rarely look dangerous when taking one. Those defending Orta whilst knocking PH let’s not forget, Rads leaves the appointments to Orta, he is guided by him. Orta would have had the say on appointing PH and he was his ideal man.

PH a coach who doesn’t want involvement in signings, he just wants to coach. Go back through all of PHs formations and you’ll find 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 even if it’s a variation like the Diamond. He never plays 4-2-3-1 yet last two games that has been his formation? Strange that, funny too how anything you read on Orta at Boro points to him “meddling” on team tactics/formation.

We have a poor coach who is out of his depth. We have a director of football who wants us to play a certain way so only signs players for the way he sees us playing

Goalkeeper coach signed by Orta also worked under Orta at Boro. Set pieces coach signed by Orta, we have two tiers at Leeds, coaching staff brought in by the head coach and those brought in by Orta, no conflicts eh?

All the scouts have worked with Orta at Boro, interesting Boro never kept any on. Scouts based in Spain with no direct contact with TC or PH or the next guy, so our Coach can’t hand over to them his remit, they get their instructions from Orta.

A director of football and head coach doesn’t work in the Championship, we need an experienced guy who can come in and spot where a player will make a difference in a current set up. Warnock love him or hate him is an example with Bamba, Pulis at Boro with Traore who hadn’t scored a goal for them in 42 games until Pulis came in.

Replace PH with any coach and continue as we are with Orta in charge of signings and scouting and it will just be more of the same.

[Richard]

Well that wasn't down to me. I keep getting attacked for defending Warnock and saying he should have been given time.

Would would a manager be put off be a fan who wanted them to come? It makes no sense.

I'd go for Alex Neil, but if he gets Preston up then we've no chance.

Warnock was lied to, he spent too much on Kenny and Peltier believing he was going to receive funds to purchase two more “marquee” signings. He had a one year contract and after not receiving the funds he thought he was going to get he just went through the motions. The club showed him no commitment so he showed little in return. If we’d have had a decent owner I agree more time and he would have come good.

[rab_rant]

You won't like this but here is a reality check from a Boro fan. Boro under a good manager are playing well.

[Clive]

Whilst Warnock failed at Leeds he had got a track record that suggested he could get teams promoted from the championship. Same as with Pep Guardiola at City who had a track record so City gave him longer than if he was just some guy from Barnsley with no real success at this level. The trouble with saying give PH time is that we don't know if he has the capability to do any better than he is doing now, at Barnsley after the initial success period he didn't appear able to get them out of a slump that lasted over a year.

When people say Warnock failed I think that's part of the problem. We expect someone with a track record to get instant success, and when they don't we revert to someone inexperienced who causes chaos and we have to start from scratch.

We seem to let the better managers do the rebuild and then someone obviously out of their depth comes along and messes everything up. It's almost like it's a deliberate ploy to stop us going down or going up and I hate it.

We were 7 points off the play-offs when Warnock left with most of the fans seemingly glad to see the back of him. We finished 21 points off the play-offs under Redfearn and the fans seemed to want good ol' Redders to have another season.

[1964white]

You won't like this but here is a reality check from a Boro fan. Boro under a good manager are playing well.

Boro' have also got a decent squad who were under-performing unlike our average brittle soft bellied lot whom are showing the type of form I expected from them even when we were nicking results in December the writing was on the wall from day one of the season

[Clive]

We need a clear out, Orta and PH shown the door side by side, the signings are not good enough nor are the coaches. Not just PH the set pieces coach too, what do they actually practice on the training field? We look like conceding from every set piece, we rarely look dangerous when taking one. Those defending Orta whilst knocking PH let’s not forget, Rads leaves the appointments to Orta, he is guided by him. Orta would have had the say on appointing PH and he was his ideal man.

PH a coach who doesn’t want involvement in signings, he just wants to coach. Go back through all of PHs formations and you’ll find 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 even if it’s a variation like the Diamond. He never plays 4-2-3-1 yet last two games that has been his formation? Strange that, funny too how anything you read on Orta at Boro points to him “meddling” on team tactics/formation.

We have a poor coach who is out of his depth. We have a director of football who wants us to play a certain way so only signs players for the way he sees us playing

Goalkeeper coach signed by Orta also worked under Orta at Boro. Set pieces coach signed by Orta, we have two tiers at Leeds, coaching staff brought in by the head coach and those brought in by Orta, no conflicts eh?

All the scouts have worked with Orta at Boro, interesting Boro never kept any on. Scouts based in Spain with no direct contact with TC or PH or the next guy, so our Coach can’t hand over to them his remit, they get their instructions from Orta.

A director of football and head coach doesn’t work in the Championship, we need an experienced guy who can come in and spot where a player will make a difference in a current set up. Warnock love him or hate him is an example with Bamba, Pulis at Boro with Traore who hadn’t scored a goal for them in 42 games until Pulis came in.

Replace PH with any coach and continue as we are with Orta in charge of signings and scouting and it will just be more of the same.

Why would Orta have suggested a coach who doesn't suit his style? Radz said Orta tried to stop him sacking Christiansen earlier, so I don't think he wants Heckingbottom here at all.

The set-up with Orta may or may not work in terms of getting us promoted, but he's not the disaster people try and make out.

I think Heckingbottom is here because the fans were grumbling and he has a good agent.

[weasel]

I think it is more likely that PH tried various formations and as they kept failing he tried the formation that the club had played under Monk and TC.

[Richard]

I think it is more likely that PH tried various formations and as they kept failing he tried the formation that the club had played under Monk and TC.

Another thing that points to Orta meddling... Did you catch the interview after last week’s game and conceding from a corner? PH said he prefers man to man marking but the team are playing Zonal? There were a few strange comments that pointed to him not having control over how we defend corners, that is up to the set piece coach.

That just isn’t right because who is the set piece coach reporting too? It can’t be PH or surely PH would say switch to man to man. I’m not on the side of PH, I just think there is more than one thing broken a the club.

[1964white]

Another thing that points to Orta meddling... Did you catch the interview after last week’s game and conceding from a corner? PH said he prefers man to man marking but the team are playing Zonal? There were a few strange comments that pointed to him not having control over how we defend corners, that is up to the set piece coach.

That just isn’t right because who is the set piece coach reporting too? It can’t be PH or surely PH would say switch to man to man. I’m not on the side of PH, I just think there is more than one thing broken a the club.

Orta thinks we are Barcelona or Real

[The Subhuman]

Whilst we can all agree the squad isn't great the trouble is that you still need a manager that is capable of getting the most out of it and if PH fans use the poor squad excuse then it doesn't hold up as the previous coach got more out of them, albeit not all the time. So far we haven't had one performance from a PH side that could make us feel really positive.

I'm not a PH fan nor was I a TC fan at all, both look poor as managers. But I'm also not saying the squad is poor. It always comes down to the manager and a lot of the teams above us have worse players. Mot of ours would walk into 75% of the first teams in this division.

We need a good manager, would be happy with Pulis and Rowatt looks decent but that's the extent of my knowledge of managers we could get we haven't yet tried.

If Rads said we had Rowatt lined up to come in I'd be in the front of the queue to say bye bye Heck ..until then it doesn't really matter which substandard manager we have and we may actually strike lucky with one at some point. Way to early to evaluate Heck properly imo especially with someone elses team.

[Cjay]

Apparently according to the YEP Radz wanted David Wagner once Monk left.

Reasonable, Monk left on the 25th of May possible discussions had been going on for longer and Radz knew he may need a new coach a week or so before. Huddersfield didnt play the playoff final till the 29th. Perhaps he was 1st choice then obviously there was no chance once he got promoted.

Then Jaap Stam himself said he knew "Leeds were very interested in him in the summer". So theres a chance we turned our attention to Stam, not my choice but he did very well results wise last season.

Perhaps this does suggest Radz does pay attention to the domestic managers, maybe come the summer if Fulham dont go up or Brentford or Derby or Bristol city then we may get Jokanovic or Smith or Rowett or Johnson?

I dont know the reasoning behind PH but without significant improvement i cant see him being here next season. Just hope of thats the case Radz gets it right this time and gives the right manager time and funds. Plus full control over his side.

Not saying there isnt a place for Orta, the youth teams u18 and u23s really hitting form at the moment. Machuca, Rey, Sarkic, Edmondson, Temenzhukov, all earning good reviews.

Forshaw, Saiz, Alioski, Lasogga all impressed this season. Grot and Ekuban showed glimpses.

There is a place for Orta, but if we get a quality manager he must communicate fully with the manager, the coaching staff all must be the managers choice.

Feel Orta has to much control, Radz must allow a new manager more.

[The Subhuman]

There is a place for Orta, but if we get a quality manager he must communicate fully with the manager, the coaching staff all must be the managers choice.

What makes you think he didn't? Sweeper Keeper seems to indicate TC got what he asked for

[Cjay]

What makes you think he didn't? Sweeper Keeper seems to indicate TC got what he asked for

Didnt get a proper cb or a proper left back or a ball playing midfielder.

Cant play the style TC wanted without natural attacking full backs or a ball playing midfielder.

TC already indicated he wasnt involved in Gianni Vio coming in.

Marcos Abad (goalkeeping coach) worked with Orta at Elche and Boro.

Gabi Ruiz (Head of player Recruitment) another mate of Orta, job title says it all.

Benat Labaien (Assistant Coach) another who worked with Orta before.

He did the same at Boro, brought in his own staff.

Undermines the manager imo, that must stop

[The Subhuman]

I'm not convinced, any manager who allows that much control over him is not management suited to start with so not buying it as that cut and dried..We had two wing backs here to start the season

[Richard]

Didnt get a proper cb or a proper left back or a ball playing midfielder.

Cant play the style TC wanted without natural attacking full backs or a ball playing midfielder.

TC already indicated he wasnt involved in Gianni Vio coming in.

Marcos Abad (goalkeeping coach) worked with Orta at Elche and Boro.

Gabi Ruiz (Head of player Recruitment) another mate of Orta, job title says it all.

Benat Labaien (Assistant Coach) another who worked with Orta before.

He did the same at Boro, brought in his own staff.

Undermines the manager imo, that must stop

Exactly, the evidence is there if anyone wants to look for it. Sometimes it’s easier to blame just the coach but our problems are a lot deeper. Do a google search for “Heckingbottom Zonal Marking” you’ll see his comments from the interview saying he hasn’t been able to implement his own system for man to man marking saying set piece defending has been down to the set piece coach. It really is a joke...

I think Orta is taking Rads for a ride, free jobs for all his mates, have a play at being football manager and when it doesn’t work we’ll put all the blame onto the head coach and ignore the fact who actually suggested signing him.

Oh and all these strange signings for the U23 squad from Spain, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone’s or some agents pockets are being lined a little either.

[The Subhuman]

Didn't Heck bring in some of his own guys?

[1964white]

Exactly, the evidence is there if anyone wants to look for it. Sometimes it’s easier to blame just the coach but our problems are a lot deeper. Do a google search for “Heckingbottom Zonal Marking” you’ll see his comments from the interview saying he hasn’t been able to implement his own system for man to man marking saying set piece defending has been down to the set piece coach. It really is a joke...

I think Orta is taking Rads for a ride, free jobs for all his mates, have a play at being football manager and when it doesn’t work we’ll put all the blame onto the head coach and ignore the fact who actually suggested signing him.

Oh and all these strange signings for the U23 squad from Spain, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone’s or some agents pockets are being lined a little either.

Spot on Richard

And folk on here expect us to employ a top experienced manager no chance under the current regime. Managers of that calibre wouldn't touch Leeds with a barge pole under such circumstances !

Previous owners have taken us for ride & now Radz is doing the same, milking us for every £££'s he can make of LUFC

[Clive]

Exactly, the evidence is there if anyone wants to look for it. Sometimes it’s easier to blame just the coach but our problems are a lot deeper. Do a google search for “Heckingbottom Zonal Marking” you’ll see his comments from the interview saying he hasn’t been able to implement his own system for man to man marking saying set piece defending has been down to the set piece coach. It really is a joke...

I think Orta is taking Rads for a ride, free jobs for all his mates, have a play at being football manager and when it doesn’t work we’ll put all the blame onto the head coach and ignore the fact who actually suggested signing him.

Oh and all these strange signings for the U23 squad from Spain, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone’s or some agents pockets are being lined a little either.

I remember Heckingbottom's comments at the time, he just made himself look weak. He should either leave it as it is and keep quiet, or put his foot down and do it his way. His way wasn't working too well for Barnsley.

I think we'd be better off with Orta as caretaker rather than Heckingbottom.

This idea that Orta is some evil mastermind who is taking advantage of the innocent Radrizzani, and everything will be alright if we get rid of him, is ridiculous. In situations like this everyone is taking advantage of each other, that's the problem.

When Monk signed players from his old club, who had the same agent as him, and didn't play them, were you wondering about agent's pockets being lined?

[Cjay]

Didn't Heck bring in some of his own guys?

He did but only to replace the ones that left with TC.

Seem to remember Phil hay reporting he wasnt allowed to bring in all the ones he wanted, presumably because it would have done Orta's buddies out of a job?