Paul Heckingbottom

[Clive]

I would agree with you that he speaks the language that football fans can understand and he knows how to get them on side - i.e. dropping lazy foreigner, saying players need to work harder etc. The trouble is that nothing has improved on the pitch and from what I have seen things have got considerably worse. I certainly will not sugarcoat some of the poor performances under TC but you could see it was a work in progress and that there was some sort of end plan, I accepted that as I could see that if it worked and we got the right players in then at some point we'd be playing some lovely football and deservedly winning matches. There were the glimpses of what could be achieved and yes there were times when it simply didn't happen be that because of a limitation of the coach or the players or a combination of both. I just don't see any positives so far from the matches under PH. Yes 7 matches is only a small sample but I would still expect to have seen something to say this guy can walk the walk. He comes across to me as just a b*llshit artist along the lines of Warnock or Blackwell who can trot out the excuses and keep the fans onside.

Same as when we had Terry Venables and he had a reasonable squad but made them a lot worse (before the fire sales). Yet to here TV speak it was as if he was doing wonderfully well with a bunch of awful footballers who hadn't been playing in Europe in recent years and challenging at the top level. TV destroyed what was still a very good side and my fear is PH will destroy what is not far off being a good squad - certainly no need to sell them all as 64 almost suggested recently.

As far as Clive goes I see passion which borders at times on aggression but in the main it has seemed that the more passionate/aggressive posts he has made have been in response to aggressive posts directed at him. Yes maybe because I have agreed with quite a lot of his posts I haven't felt his wrath but equally if I had a different view to his I wouldn't have replied to him in the way some have - i would have tried to argue in a civilised manner and from what I have seen I would have then likely have had a civilised reply.

Warnock has one of the best records in this league, and Blackwell has done better than any manager since relegation from the Prem. The fans hated Warnock and they call Blackwell Blamewell, so if their intention was to get the fans onside with their bullshit, it's not good bullshit. Heckingbottom's bullshit appears to be working, even though he's not getting results.

I hope I wasn't too aggressive or disrespectful, there. I wouldn't want to upset a mod.

64 is very reactionary, he wanted Christiansen out, he wants all the players out and he wants me out!

Although, if we ever have that Grayson debate you'll probably want me out, too.

The funny thing is 64 agrees with me on Grayson, maybe we can gang up on you and bond over that.

[Clive]

I blame Phil Hay for ruining my day when he tweeted that Paul Heckingbottom was the 1st choice for the Leeds job

What if he was never first choice and after Hay tweeted that the club felt they had no choice but to appoint him?

[danhirons]

See, you can say I chat garbage, but you can't say why it's garbage.

You disagree so it's garbage, and it's supposed to be me who doesn't respect opinions.

I can't say why? Where do you want me to begin?!

You want to sack a manager after 7 games.... 7 games! Enough said.

You blame Leeds not being able to progress as a club on Phil Hay and Adam Pope, two minor journalists that nobody really takes much notice of....

You call Simon Grayson a crap manager (basically) despite achieving three promotions from league one

If I could be bothered to trawl through the rest of your posts I would say something about them too.

Perhaps you don't do it on purpose but you have quite an extreme view on a lot of issues. But hey, that's what a forum is for I guess.

[Clive]

I can't say why? Where do you want me to begin?!

You want to sack a manager after 7 games.... 7 games! Enough said.

You blame Leeds not being able to progress as a club on Phil Hay and Adam Pope, two minor journalists that nobody really takes much notice of....

You call Simon Grayson a crap manager (basically) despite achieving three promotions from league one

If I could be bothered to trawl through the rest of your posts I would say something about them too.

Perhaps you don't do it on purpose but you have quite an extreme view on a lot of issues. But hey, that's what a forum is for I guess.

We had an owner who sacked 2 managers after 6 games and no one complained. He's had 100 and odd games at Barnsley, he shouldn't have been here in the first place.

People were all over Twitter saying how much they loved Hay and Pope's coverage in response to my post.

Warnock's got 3 promotions to the top flight, and is on course for a 4th, most Leeds fans call him crap.

[Bally]

I'd say calling someone a hypocrite shows a lack of respect, Bally was new here and I expect he's already gone (hope you get back soon though, seemed a good poster as did Richard) so maybe did not know we try to not use insulting language here. Plus he icalled the thread stupid/s**t or whatever is was ...semantics I know but I can live with it.

Again if it's a rollicking good argument anyone wants waccoe is the place to be...

Shield is not just a mod, he built this place puts a lot of time repairing it at a moments notice when it goes wrong and is responsible for it's content. I'm fine with that and anytime he wants to remove someone I'm fine with that too

I'm not speaking for Weasel, we haven't agreed on anything for years.

Again we don't do confrontational here, we're not interested in starting a Heckingbottom out campaign or petition or anything proactive. All that gets done on waccoe. We are happy to discuss opposing thoughts and I'm quite happy for match day thread rants and slag offs while the game is on and just after. It's an in the moment thing. Plus Swan likes following the updates

No problem with anyones opinions but I dislike zero compromise agenda, multiple threads on basically the same topic and am uncomfortable with Leeds fans getting called stupid/mad/idiotic or whatever adjective was used

Hate banning posters myself because I respect the right to free speech.

Now I must get back to Dallas Goedarts game tape, I'm getting behind

I'm still here it will take more than Mr angry Clive to drive me away
I'm still of the opinion whoever is the manager whether Christiansen ,Heckinbottom or whoever needs to be given time to have a say on what players he works with and to get them playing how he wants the to ,Hecky hasn't had that and yet some are calling for his head ,Leeds have great support home and away but there's some who want instant success from a manager and that rarely happens they need time.

[Cjay]

What if he was never first choice and after Hay tweeted that the club felt they had no choice but to appoint him?

What if you are really Paul Heckingbottom, signed up here to try a bit of reverse psychology

[weasel]

Warnock has one of the best records in this league, and Blackwell has done better than any manager since relegation from the Prem. The fans hated Warnock and they call Blackwell Blamewell, so if their intention was to get the fans onside with their bullshit, it's not good bullshit. Heckingbottom's bullshit appears to be working, even though he's not getting results.

I hope I wasn't too aggressive or disrespectful, there. I wouldn't want to upset a mod.

Warnock has been hugely successful at this level, for whatever reasons it didn't work out here and as we all know no manager has been given enough time to really build the side he wants - the next manager then comes in and the cycle continues of having half a team that he doesn't want, is able to buy 2 or 3 players he wants but still doesn't have the team he wants.

Blackwell did really well for us but when we suffered our play-off final hangover (see Reading this season and various other teams) he seemed incapable of stopping it. He built a team in the Warnock mould, the 'journeymen pro' who knew what it was all about but I feel his team simply ran out of legs. If it wasn't for the way he bigged himself up for every decision that worked and shelved the blame for every decision that was wrong he would probably have had more fans onside at the end.

The trouble with PH is that he is coming out with the b*llsh*t but has nothing to back it up with. He doesn't have the promotions NW has on his CV and he, unlike most of the Leeds players, has not managed a team trying to get promoted to the premiership. So the players have played at a higher level than the coach has managed at.

When I look at managers I look at how they have responded when things were going wrong as it is very easy for a manager to land a job at a club where everything is in place for success and then look good. This is why I am incredibly concerned about PH as all I see is a manager that got the job at Barnsley when they were doing very well and the team was a well oiled machine with forward momentum. The promotion and Cup win were, I feel, more down to the previous management and players than him. When things started going wrong with key players sold he didn't appear able to fix it - they fell like a lead balloon last season and were awful this season.

So far I see no signs that he has any idea about how to turn it around at Leeds and after 7 matches I would have expected to see some signs. I am happy for him to continue to the end of the season, in the hope that he proves me wrong, but would be alarmed if AR hasn't already started looking for a potential new manager in the summer.

[Norm]

weasel wrote:

............

Same as when we had Terry Venables and he had a reasonable squad but made them a lot worse (before the fire sales). Yet to here TV speak it was as if he was doing wonderfully well with a bunch of awful footballers who hadn't been playing in Europe in recent years and challenging at the top level. TV destroyed what was still a very good side and my fear is PH will destroy what is not far off being a good squad - certainly no need to sell them all as 64 almost suggested recently.

....................................

My exact position against OzWhite (he hasn't posted on here for years now but was really a regular poster then) back in 2003, after the fact. He defended Venables and I disagreed strongly that he could have done much better if he'd left his ego at the door on the way in.

[Cjay]

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leed ... s-14413699

Cooper, Lonners and Roofe out.
Doesnt know why Ideguchi isnt playing (we were to stupid to put a clause in like Liverpool did to Cardiff)
We will have to over achieve because of our finances next season, but promotion is the aim.
Fans need patience.


And more, lots of talk about us having less cash then other teams, overachieving to meet our aims blah blah blah.

Implying that he is doing a good job by doing that, "we are skint, look how well ive done".

About as inspiring as a fart.

[1964white]

Phil Hay:

:Heckingbottom on Radrizzani's comments: "The players have been fine, Part and parcel of being in this game is people commenting on who you're doing. The owner's put his money in and has every right to say what he thinks it right. The players know that."

Heckingbottom on AR comments: "It won't change the players' focus."

Heckingbottom said it doesn't require a "major overhaul" at Leeds in the summer but admitted "things need changing." Said the fact some players are on long-term deals can "make things difficult". "But the good thing is we don't have to lose anyone we don't want to."

Heckingbottom said from his perspective, errors have cost Leeds more than effort on the players' part. But he saw a lack of fight in the Middlesbrough game, which Radrizzani's specifically criticised.

Radrizzani hasn't spoken to the players directly this week but Heckingbottom says he's talked to them regularly through the season. "There's no disconnect here." #lufc

On Yosuke Ideguchi, Heckingbottom said players have to be playing regularly for their clubs to play internationally. Said the decision at Leonesa to play Ideguchi or leave him out is purely down to the head coach there.

Heckingbottom said he's asked to see footage of Ideguchi to see what he's about. Leonesa haven't told him specifically why Ideguchi is struggling for game time.

Liam Cooper, Kemar Roofe and Andy Lonergan all expected to miss the game against Sheffield Wednesday through injury



Berardi on Radrizzani comments: "I didn't read what he said. Speaking with my team-mates, no-one said anything about it. We don't care about what he says. If I have to say something to him, I speak with him, not here

Berardi: "We made mistakes this season and we have to give our best all the time, even in this bad moment. The manager is doing the best for us and the club has been doing the best for us since the beginning of the season. We can show we can do more

Berardi: "As a player I can say I saw a lot of improvements from the club (this season). 100 per cent they did a lot of good things. We're happy with that

Berardi on Radrizzani comments: "I came here on Monday for training, food, training some more. I will speak to him for sure but if I have something to say to him, I will speak face to face, not here. He is a good man."

Berardi on whether this season has been a big disappointment: "My first two seasons were not great. If I see the results (this season) they are not good but we saw a lot of good things from the club, a lot of improvements. We need more results now


Adam Pope:

PH press conference: “Derbies have changed a lot over the years ... but pride is still at stack. We’re desperate for the points & so are Wednesday

PH on Radrizzani criticism: “The players have been fine. They’ve been ok with it. It’ll not change their focus I hope. They want to win for their own reasons, for the club & for the owner

PH on AR: “The owner's put his money in and has every right to say what he thinks it right. The players know that."

PH on long contracts: “The good thing is we don’t have to sell anyone we don’t want to but there is less wriggle room if we want to make changes.”

PH says he expects to be challenging for promotion next season but admits it will require over achieving against the clubs with more money.

PH agrees that AR’s comments about players’ attitudes was damning. “It’s across the board that everyone has to step up to the plate

H says the criticism has not been spoken about between him & the players. He says AR has spoken to the players several times over the season so “there’s no disconnect

PH on Ideguchi not playing much in Spain. He says if he needs game time it’s up to him to get it. “Of course we’d like him to play.

TEAM NEWS: Liam Cooper (leg) progressing but will be after Int break. Andy Lonergan (neck) seeing a chiropractor but still out. Kemar Roofe is improving but still not ready. Tyler Roberts & Luke Ayling making progres

PH re AR’s criticism: “We want that honesty.... I’d speak directly to the players because I’ve got access to the players... the owner has put his money into the club & is 100% passionate & just wants it to be a success & is venting his frustrations.

PH says AR has not spoken to the players yet since criticising them but adds: “There’s an openness about the club I noticed straight way where there’s regular access & communication between everyone.”

PH on if players had complained to him about AR’s criticism: “ No, but at the end of the day what can you do about it? You knuckle down and perform. That’s what your paid for.... there’s a trait where people tend to be too precious. That’s everybody...Just get on with it

Berardi on AR criticism: “I didn’t read it. Speaking to my team mates nobody has said anything. If I have to speak to him then I will. We all have made mistakes. The manager and club is doing its best. I’m sure we can do more than what we’ have.

GB: “I’ve seen a lot of improvements in the club. 100% they have done good things

Berardi says he will speak to Radrizzani if he needs to “face to face. He’s a good man.” On improvements at the club he says it’s much better organised and everyone knows their roles.

[weasel]

Heckingbottom said it doesn't require a "major overhaul" at Leeds in the summer but admitted "things need changing." Said the fact some players are on long-term deals can "make things difficult". "But the good thing is we don't have to lose anyone we don't want to."

Extremely naive - if players want to go they will regardless of contracts. All it means is the club gets more money for them.


Heckingbottom said from his perspective, errors have cost Leeds more than effort on the players' part. But he saw a lack of fight in the Middlesbrough game, which Radrizzani's specifically criticised.

Biggest error being to appoint Heckingbottom

Liam Cooper, Kemar Roofe and Andy Lonergan all expected to miss the game against Sheffield Wednesday through injury

Whilst it was a bit frustrating when TC wouldn't say whether people were injured at least he didn't reveal to the opposition which players would be missing

PH press conference: “Derbies have changed a lot over the years ... but pride is still at stack. We’re desperate for the points & so are Wednesday

Why are we desperate for points? To secure mid table mediocrity so as to not fall even further down the table since his appointment.

PH on Radrizzani criticism: “The players have been fine. They’ve been ok with it. It’ll not change their focus I hope. They want to win for their own reasons, for the club & for the owner

But not for the manager?

PH says he expects to be challenging for promotion next season but admits it will require over achieving against the clubs with more money.

Sort of like how we had been overachieving for most of the season prior to the last month of TC's reign and PH's appointment

[1964white]

Seem like Hecky can't say anything right in your mind Weasel

[Cjay]

Last one really bugs me . . .

Its making excuses before the season starts.

Typical of a manager whose never achieved anything and is only used to battling relegation.

Hope him and his rubbish hoof ball is gone by next season.

We paid £500k for a manager with a 25% win record and but for the sad death of his old clubs owner and his connection with the club he would have been fired not given a new contract!!!!!

Barnsley fans couldnt believe there luck, they have improved if you read there forum, while we have got worse. The footballs worse, we score less goals we concede more goals, we have 1 win in 7.

Hecky is a cliche driven, excuse spouting, relegation mentality lower league PE teacher. Owners panicked and went for the quickest, cheapest yes man they could find, someone who would be grateful.

[hector]

But apart from that..... what don't you like a about Hecky>>

[1964white]

Last one really bugs me . . .

Its making excuses before the season starts.

Typical of a manager whose never achieved anything and is only used to battling relegation.

Hope him and his rubbish hoof ball is gone by next season.

We paid £500k for a manager with a 25% win record and but for the sad death of his old clubs owner and his connection with the club he would have been fired not given a new contract!!!!!

Barnsley fans couldnt believe there luck, they have improved if you read there forum, while we have got worse. The footballs worse, we score less goals we concede more goals, we have 1 win in 7.

Hecky is a cliche driven, excuse spouting, relegation mentality lower league PE teacher. Owners panicked and went for the quickest, cheapest yes man they could find, someone who would be grateful.

I have to say I fear for us next season with our management from top to bottom after their poor showing in their first year at the helm. Lose our three class players & replace them with cheap options would be a recipe for disaster

[Cjay]

But apart from that..... what don't you like a about Hecky>>

Not keen on his choice of clothing either.

[Cjay]

I have to say I fear for us next season with our management from top to bottom after their poor showing in their first year at the helm. Lose our three class players & replace them with cheap options would be a recipe for disaster

Thats my worry.

I know i have a real downer on Hecky(with good reason imo). But its the whole thing.

The chairmen tantrums.
The Spanish link that does nothing.
The weird links to Aspire for no reason
The managerial choices, i liked TC in the end but wasnt to keen. Hecky though is such an unambitious choice.
The recruitment
And the hints that we are skint, Radz on about the wage bill before, now PH banging on about budgets and over achieving.

If Aspire isnt a financial thing then wtf is the point of them, this is what i want to know, if we havent access to the exceptional wealth behind Aspire (it owns half of London) then why are we involved with them.

[hector]

Not keen on his choice of clothing either.

[1964white]

Thats my worry.

And the hints that we are skint, Radz on about the wage bill before, now PH banging on about budgets and over achieving.

If Aspire isnt a financial thing then wtf is the point of them, this is what i want to know, if we havent access to the exceptional wealth behind Aspire (it owns half of London) then why are we involved with them.

I've thought all along that Radz & co have been taking us for ride, I really hope my suspicions are wrong !

[weasel]

Seem like Hecky can't say anything right in your mind Weasel

It is like the old saying - Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you might be an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.

I just want something, some little crumb of comfort that he has a clue about how to get this team playing better and winning. So far all we are doing is playing sh*te football, slipping down the league and being told by him that this is where we belong.