Paul Heckingbottom

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Clive
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Clive » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:04 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:56 pm

So you say: sack and try to get lucky. Or you believe Heck is one of the worst aroud. I find your Approach ridiculous: when was the last time we sacked a Coach and got something better?
I believe Heck is one of the worst around. It's not my approach to keep sacking managers.

I'd have kept Warnock, Rosler, Darko, Christiansen.

It's got nothing to do with luck. If you appoint someone poor they're gonna be poor.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:11 pm

Clive wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:04 pm
I believe Heck is one of the worst around. It's not my approach to keep sacking managers.

I'd have kept Warnock, Rosler, Darko, Christiansen.

It's got nothing to do with luck. If you appoint someone poor they're gonna be poor.
Warnock proved that he came only to take the piss. Darko had been catastrophic the time he had been at Sturm Graz. The fans loved to se him go. That we even payed for getting him...whatever.
Rosler wasn`t a good coach. Heavy metal-football, my arse.
But the one we should have kept was Monk. He was the best coach we had in years. Christansen
proved to be o.k., aand probably would have started to learn do minimize the bad decisions he made.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:16 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:56 pm
So you say: sack and try to get lucky and/or you believe Heck is one of the worst aroud, in which case it can only get better. I find your approach ridiculous: when was the last time we sacked a coach and got someone better in?
I wouldn't have sacked TC firstly, nor appointed Heck. If we didn't make such woeful appointments, we wouldn't have to sack them. I agreed with giving TC time, as he was trying to build something. Jokanovic finished 21st in his first season and Wagner finished 19th in his first season, TC was way above that. Why should we keep a dreadful manager just to show stability?

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Clive » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:30 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:11 pm
Warnock proved that he came only to take the piss. Darko had been catastrophic the time he had been at Sturm Graz. The fans loved to se him go. That we even payed for getting him...whatever.
Rosler wasn`t a good coach. Heavy metal-football, my arse.
But the one we should have kept was Monk. He was the best coach we had in years. Christansen
proved to be o.k., aand probably would have started to learn do minimize the bad decisions he made.
You say I'm an idiot for wanting managers sacked, then you run down the ones I said I'd have kept.

Monk was no good, that's why he's ended up down the bottom of the league.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:00 pm


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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:13 pm

Heck talking sense :

"Our passing & retention of the ball was poor"

"Not cutting out the cross for the goal".....it was Kalvin with his new haircut who made a feeble attempt to stop the cross & KP is one of our defensive midfielders

"Praise for his keeper & young defence"

"Sussed out the players he doesn't want"

"Knows where the problem areas are"

Even though I'm unconvinced with Hecky I can't argue with any of those points he made

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:14 pm

1964white wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:13 pm
Heck talking sense :

"Our passing & retention of the ball was poor"

"Not cutting out the cross for the goal".....it was Kalvin with his new haircut who made a feeble attempt to stop the cross & KP is one of our defensive midfielders

"Praise for his keeper & young defence"

"Sussed out the players he doesn't want"

"Knows where the problem areas are"

Even though I'm unconvinced with Hecky I can't argue with any of those points he made
Every fan could say that. What's so amazing about him stating the obvious?

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:30 pm

Managers without a club (if we have any ambition) who'd be perfect:
- Marco Silva
- Slaven Bilic
- Eduardo Berizzo
- Hannes Wolf
- Frank de Boer
- Oscar Garcia

But we don't, so we'll probably appoint another lower league manager.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:19 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:30 pm
Managers without a club (if we have any ambition) who'd be perfect:
- Marco Silva
- Slaven Bilic
- Eduardo Berizzo
- Hannes Wolf
- Frank de Boer
- Oscar Garcia

But we don't, so we'll probably appoint another lower league manager.
Oscar Garcia is my preference, he was my choice before TC.

Frank De Boer next- did a thread on him a bit ago.

Slavan Billic

Marco Silva

Hannes Wolf

Eduardo Berizzo.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:29 pm

Slaven Bilic

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:35 pm

Clive wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:30 pm
You say I'm an idiot for wanting managers sacked, then you run down the ones I said I'd have kept.

Monk was no good, that's why he's ended up down the bottom of the league.
No, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We differ in our opinion which managars we believe to have achieved what could have been asked from them.
But: I don`t say I`m for or against sacking Heck as such. But if he`s sacked then he MUST be replaced by a foseable better manager.
Heck as had time to evaluate the squad, so he will have more insight than a new manager coming in.
So if heis sacked then please not 2 weeks into the summer break.
The best Chance for him getting sacked soon, would be a poor performance against Barnsley...that could stir some serious s**t up.
The fans wouldn`t take it well, nor the men in charge.

In regard to Heck: you are convinced you know that he`s useless. You may be right, but I couldn`t say that I know what he`s really capable of given time and some new players he wants to get in.
The managers mentioned were with a high probability useless (Darko..come on, the guy had a dismal record and couldhardly speak English; Rösler had enough time to prove he was living in dream land; The Hock was the anti-hero and a joke as was Warnock...the latter had success at most clubs, but not with us...pur coincidence? And Monk kept our hopes to reach the play-offs very long alive, although, just as in the last x seasons, we fell apart towards the end of the season. He seems to have had a positive impact at Birmingham by the way.)

No problem with your evaluations, but don`t try to suggest I want certain things to happen without mentioning the conditions under which I would want such to happen.
Last edited by fred on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by weasel » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:37 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:27 pm
If the club are talking to him about who he wants to keep, sadly it suggests he will stay in charge next season.
Maybe they are simply planning to give those players to him when they tell him to f*ck off. Can only hope.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:43 pm

weasel wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:37 pm
Maybe they are simply planning to give those players to him when they tell him to f*ck off. Can only hope.
Listen to the pre Aston Villa interview. He said he would be able to say which players he wants etc.
So he definitely has spoken about him staying. If that decision stands however we perform in the last games I
don`t know. But not a single word from him that could suggest his sacking could be a possibility.
But then: who would know besides Radz/Orta.

Whoever wants him to leave must hope that we perform as bad as possible in the remaining games...only
very bad performances will see him being sacked. At least that is how the situation seems to be in my eyes.
I hope to see good Performances...game against Barnsley will be very tasty. :)

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:48 pm

I'm guessing TC was sacked as he was too successful then! How do you apologise for appointing a manager with 43.9% win ratio but one with 12% is given more time? The most worrying thing is he'll bring in Barnsley players who like to "get stuck in" on 4 year deals and we'll lose Saiz, Pablo, Alioski and Jansson, leaving a huge mess when he's inevitably sacked.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:53 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:48 pm
I'm guessing TC was sacked as he was too successful then! How do you apologise for appointing a manager with 43.9% win ratio but one with 12% is given more time? The most worrying thing is he'll bring in Barnsley players who like to "get stuck in" on 4 year deals and we'll lose Saiz, Pablo, Alioski and Jansson, leaving a huge mess when he's inevitably sacked.
Now that is some serious nonsense. Agree?
And who do you believe should `apologize`?

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:59 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:53 pm
Now that is some serious nonsense. Agree?
And who do you believe should `apologize`?
Radz apologised for appointing TC. I think he needs to do a lot more than that for appointing Heck.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:11 pm

Much hate as Orta gets I'd rather he was in charge of the purse strings then Hecky.

Look at Barnsley . . Thats HIS squad.

He thought Alex Mowett was Championship quality.

He spent officially £5.75mil in the summer.

Brentford spent £5.49m.

So cant use lack of funds as an excuse.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Clive » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:18 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:59 pm
Radz apologised for appointing TC. I think he needs to do a lot more than that for appointing Heck.
I would suggest giving every season ticket holder 500 grand.

500 grand is obviously loose change to him if he can spend it on a loser like Heckingbottom.

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:29 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:59 pm
Radz apologised for appointing TC. I think he needs to do a lot more than that for appointing Heck.
O.k., yes I get your point. But that`s part of being a football manger I guess. You never now how long
you will have a Job.
In regard to TC: I think that he has done himself justice, he got out of the team what they were
more or less capable of. And he said, that he could hold his head high. He`ll find a new club, no
doubt about that. He`s young, motivated, thrives on pressure.

But let`s not forget that these guys are mostly seriously priviledged. No money problems, earning
enough to be without a job for x years or even the rest of their lifes.
And coaches know that these are the conditions they must work and live with.

But I agree: TC shouldn`t have been sacked. He probably would have learned, would have improved.
Him being sacked, although we were on a very bad run of results (the Newport defeat cost him his
Job I believe), and he clearly made some rather poor decisions now and then, wasn`t justified by hoping we may reach the play-offs by changing the manager as such.
Radz/Orta said Christansens appointement had been a mistake and APOLOGIZED for that mistake !!!!!!!!!!!!
For that alone TC deserves an aoplogy, because he wasn`t by far a
failure (=mistake.)
Just shows that Radz/Orta are quite clueless or are talking BS they don`t believe in themseves, but use to
put the blame on someone else, distracting from their own really questionable actions. (Not saying Radz/Orta are
only bad, but in regard to the team/squad they must take some responsibility, all the more if our Budget is rather limited.)
I will judge Radz on how much he is prepard to invest this summer. There`s no way he can talk about
about Promotion challenge without bringing in at least 2-3 Players who will be in the prize range of
probably 6-8 million.
Relying on the youngsters alone is not enough. And if we fail next season too, the better players will probably
want to leave. (Not sure if they will all stay for next season...)

Conclusion: we are in a right mess at the moment, the future is not forseeable, so hope fot the best,
and prepare for the worst. :)

Will be back when we play Barnsley...given the situation of both clubs: a huge game!!!

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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:30 am

fred wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:35 pm
No, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We differ in our opinion which managars we believe to have achieved what could have been asked from them.
But: I don`t say I`m for or against sacking Heck as such. But if he`s sacked then he MUST be replaced by a foseable better manager.
Heck as had time to evaluate the squad, so he will have more insight than a new manager coming in.
So if heis sacked then please not 2 weeks into the summer break.
The best Chance for him getting sacked soon, would be a poor performance against Barnsley...that could stir some serious s**t up.
The fans wouldn`t take it well, nor the men in charge.

In regard to Heck: you are convinced you know that he`s useless. You may be right, but I couldn`t say that I know what he`s really capable of given time and some new players he wants to get in.
The managers mentioned were with a high probability useless (Darko..come on, the guy had a dismal record and couldhardly speak English; Rösler had enough time to prove he was living in dream land; The Hock was the anti-hero and a joke as was Warnock...the latter had success at most clubs, but not with us...pur coincidence? And Monk kept our hopes to reach the play-offs very long alive, although, just as in the last x seasons, we fell apart towards the end of the season. He seems to have had a positive impact at Birmingham by the way.)

No problem with your evaluations, but don`t try to suggest I want certain things to happen without mentioning the conditions under which I would want such to happen.
You talk a lot of sense Fred contrary to what others may think !

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