Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Clive
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Clive »

Richard wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 pm Orta has made the signings, I think the majority of the signings are poor

Rads has put his hand in his pocket, I’ve no complaints on expenditure

No I don’t believe Rads is naive so I expect him to sack Orta before next season begins
But would you not agree that Saiz and Alioski are better than what we've had for a while?

Monk spent £50m at Boro and Pulis has got rid of some of his most expensive signings.

If we sack Orta and keep Heckingbottom and let him bring in his own players, what do you expect?

Do you not think we could get worse?
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Clive »

Cjay wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:42 pm No i havent you know my opinion on Neil Warnock.

Darko is an odd one, barely here but the man is incredibly successful. Probably one who should have had more time.

In fairness i to have doubts about Orta, hige screaming doubts.

But Redfearn was a poor manager, very poor and not a great judge of a player. So always felt while he is entitled to his opinion like us all he shouldn't just come out and be critical which is all he ever did.

Whether he is bitter about his exit i dont know but it certainly seemed that way.
He said he created a them and us mentality with the academy and was pleased when the first team lost.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Cjay »

Shields53 wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:51 pm Despite Radz experience in the industry he is clearly still an inexperience club owner. He has made many good business decisions and some poor football decisions. Orta has to take a lot of the blame because despite us spending a significant (For us) amount of money we still have a poor squad.
He has made some strange decisions, we are still none the wiser on Aspire. Something about using there facilities, long way to travel for a running machine. He needs to clarify that.

I'd like to know what exactly Ivan Bravo does. Think that was the first appointment Radz made nearly a year ago, i havent a clue what he does.

Those are business or football decisions but not sure which. On the face footballing but they seem more business to me.

He got the stadium back which is nice PR but ultimately its just an asset and its his, owned by him not LUFC.

Hopefully clarity will come on the 1st points. And credit to him for not charging the club rent.

He's still.learning but not convinced yet.

Orta has messed up, we have spent a lot of cash we have a higher wage bill and yet our squad is worse. Thats down to Orta.

Who decided on Hecky? Orta or Radz as a pair. In which case what criteria did he meet?

Successful in this league? Not really
Experienced in this league? Not really
Fits the identity we clearly were after regarding the academy and playing style? No.

What was the thinking regarding sacking TC? Was it to push for top 6.

If we dont make top 6 then who takes responsibility?

Theres so many questions.

It will be interesting in the summer, Radz is clearly not happy with what happened i dont doubt he wants us promoted and for us to have gone backwards is bad for him, In terms of PR, in terms of business, in terms of football.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Clive »

Cjay wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:51 pm He has made some strange decisions, we are still none the wiser on Aspire. Something about using there facilities, long way to travel for a running machine. He needs to clarify that.

I'd like to know what exactly Ivan Bravo does. Think that was the first appointment Radz made nearly a year ago, i havent a clue what he does.

Those are business or football decisions but not sure which. On the face footballing but they seem more business to me.

He got the stadium back which is nice PR but ultimately its just an asset and its his, owned by him not LUFC.

Hopefully clarity will come on the 1st points. And credit to him for not charging the club rent.

He's still.learning but not convinced yet.

Orta has messed up, we have spent a lot of cash we have a higher wage bill and yet our squad is worse. Thats down to Orta.

Who decided on Hecky? Orta or Radz as a pair. In which case what criteria did he meet?

Successful in this league? Not really
Experienced in this league? Not really
Fits the identity we clearly were after regarding the academy and playing style? No.

What was the thinking regarding sacking TC? Was it to push for top 6.

If we dont make top 6 then who takes responsibility?

Theres so many questions.

It will be interesting in the summer, Radz is clearly not happy with what happened i dont doubt he wants us promoted and for us to have gone backwards is bad for him, In terms of PR, in terms of business, in terms of football.
He said Orta talked him out of sacking TC earlier. If you look at Orta's face when they show him on Sky he looks furious that we've hired a back to basics loser and no longer try to play football.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Cjay »

Clive wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:32 pm He said he created a them and us mentality with the academy and was pleased when the first team lost.
Who said that?

If its Warnock I'd take anything he says with a pinch of salt, he claimed Bamba was better then Van Dijk.

If it was Redfearn then that is ridiculous. Although he is a fan so i dont think he'd be happy the team lost.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Clive wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:56 pm He said Orta talked him out of sacking TC earlier. If you look at Orta's face when they show him on Sky he looks furious that we've hired a back to basics loser and no longer try to play football.
Or is he furious that "his players" are not performing? This is the man who had to be physically removed from the Boro dressing room dont forget.

I don't think Radz appointed Hecky on his own, he clearly values Ortas opinion, as you say he didnt sack TC after Orta intervened. So if Orta didnt ok Hecky im sure Hecky wouldn't be here. In fact I'd bet Orta spoke to Hecky before Radz, Radz wasnt in the country till late.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Cjay wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:04 am Who said that?

If its Warnock I'd take anything he says with a pinch of salt, he claimed Bamba was better then Van Dijk.

If it was Redfearn then that is ridiculous. Although he is a fan so i dont think he'd be happy the team lost.
Warnock. It rings true with the way he's behaved since.

Is he a fan or did his dad just take him a couple of times as a kid and he lost interest and focused on his career?

Grayson and Smith played up to being Leeds fans but they were Liverpool fans.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Cjay wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:06 am Or is he furious that "his players" are not performing? This is the man who had to be physically removed from the Boro dressing room dont forget.

I don't think Radz appointed Hecky on his own, he clearly values Ortas opinion, as you say he didnt sack TC after Orta intervened. So if Orta didnt ok Hecky im sure Hecky wouldn't be here. In fact I'd bet Orta spoke to Hecky before Radz, Radz wasnt in the country till late.
But his players are not performing because of the pub team tactics.

No one really knows what goes on behind the scenes, but we can see what's happening on the pitch.

Orta is the wrong target. I actually think we'd be doing better if he was caretaker.

It might be better if he left if we got a top manager, but if he goes and Heckingbottom stays then we'll get worse.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by whiteswan »

Gurj wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:26 pm Hear Hear. Gandi, you are a highly respected member of this forum and as such I hope you do not leave.
I agree. Don't give someone what he wants.....(we are being played like a fiddle!) You are a hero Gandi :)
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by whiteswan »

Sorry, after all this nonsense.....just who are Hay and Poppy.......never heard of them....really. Are they ex footballers or something?
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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whiteswan wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:55 am I agree. Don't give someone what he wants.....(we are being played like a fiddle!) You are a hero Gandi :)
Sly swan.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Clive wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:12 amSly swan.
Don't know about Sly....but I am dry.....need to top up my malt glass....
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Richard »

Clive wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:28 pm But would you not agree that Saiz and Alioski are better than what we've had for a while?

Monk spent £50m at Boro and Pulis has got rid of some of his most expensive signings.

If we sack Orta and keep Heckingbottom and let him bring in his own players, what do you expect?

Do you not think we could get worse?
Saiz yes, Alioski can be good but Felix, Sacko (contract), Lonergan, Grot, Ekuban, Cibicki, Klitch, De Bock, Anita, Lonergan, are poor. A DOF who flooded us with midfielders and left us short in defence.

I expect to continue this poor run of form and I’d expect both Orta and PH to get the boot then maybe we can attract a decent proper manager.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Brader »

People complain about orta like we’ve never made a bad signing before. A few weeks ago all the players being complained about for not being good enough we’re already here before orta joined. The only reason he’s hated so much now is that there’s a face to get angry at now. Traore was an orta signing at boro - people didn’t mention that much after he battered us.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Richard wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:43 am Saiz yes, Alioski can be good but Felix, Sacko (contract), Lonergan, Grot, Ekuban, Cibicki, Klitch, De Bock, Anita, Lonergan, are poor.
See - to play devils advocate. Lonergan camenin as backup - and with championship experience. Grot/cibiski we’re always labelled as “for the future”. Grot IMO was terribly managed by TC. Should never have been near the first team until he’d had a grasp of the league or stadium. Anita has international caps and was a big part of Newcastle’s championship winning squad. Klich was playing great before and is now ... The problem with chopping and changing managers so much is that you end up with players suited to play in a system that isn’t going to be played. And players that should be being utilised not so because the manager doesn’t favour them.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Brader wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:48 am People complain about orta like we’ve never made a bad signing before. A few weeks ago all the players being complained about for not being good enough we’re already here before orta joined. The only reason he’s hated so much now is that there’s a face to get angry at now. Traore was an orta signing at boro - people didn’t mention that much after he battered us.
Spot on.

It's always the way at Leeds. Brian Kidd got the blame when we dropped from 4th to 5th. Do you know another club where the fans would want an assistant sacked?
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Brader wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:53 am See - to play devils advocate. Lonergan camenin as backup - and with championship experience. Grot/cibiski we’re always labelled as “for the future”. Grot IMO was terribly managed by TC. Should never have been near the first team until he’d had a grasp of the league or stadium. Anita has international caps and was a big part of Newcastle’s championship winning squad. Klich was playing great before and is now ... The problem with chopping and changing managers so much is that you end up with players suited to play in a system that isn’t going to be played. And players that should be being utilised not so because the manager doesn’t favour them.
Exactly. Wilko signed some real garbage, so did George Graham and O'Leary. They also signed some great players. Everyone is ignoring how good Saiz and Alioski are and focusing on squad players and players for the future. We've been crying out for players like those two for years and the guy who finally brings them here gets turned into a villain.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

Post by Cjay »

Clive wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:12 am Warnock. It rings true with the way he's behaved since.

Is he a fan or did his dad just take him a couple of times as a kid and he lost interest and focused on his career?

Grayson and Smith played up to being Leeds fans but they were Liverpool fans.
Not my place to question his loyalty as a fan.

But i do thinkhe has allowed his bitterness to overshadow his fandom.

I appreciate his work with the academy and that of his missus.

But that doesnt give him the right to slag off the club at every opportunity.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Clive wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:22 am But his players are not performing because of the pub team tactics.

No one really knows what goes on behind the scenes, but we can see what's happening on the pitch.

Orta is the wrong target. I actually think we'd be doing better if he was caretaker.

It might be better if he left if we got a top manager, but if he goes and Heckingbottom stays then we'll get worse.
You think Orta a man with 0 1st team coaching experience or coaching experience at all would be a good shout as caretaker?

We dont know what goes on behind the scenes but we do know Ortas role. He is in charge of signings.

Sorry tactics don't change not replacing Bartley at all or Taylor till January or Green with Laurel and Hardy.
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Re: Are Hay and Pope the Problem?

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Cjay wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:19 pm Not my place to question his loyalty as a fan.

But i do thinkhe has allowed his bitterness to overshadow his fandom.

I appreciate his work with the academy and that of his missus.

But that doesnt give him the right to slag off the club at every opportunity.
Did he do that well with the academy?
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