Positives & Negatives

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Togehter way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.
User avatar
weasel
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6363
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Positives & Negatives

Post by weasel » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:59 pm

Okay thought I'd attempt a little change of tack to discuss the positives and negatives so far in terms of how PH is running the clubs as for all the poor results the key for me is if we are showing signs of becoming a better team. Hoping for a lot of input from those watching the games to give the positives that people just seeing the results miss. So basically looking for positives and negatives in terms of going into next season if PH was to remain in charge.

Positives -

Bailey Peacock-Farrell - all season we have needed a better keeper than either FW or AL. FW did have some decent games but overall if we are to progress we need a better keeper and perhaps BPF could provide us with a better keeper without us having to rely on us getting one in the transfer market. PH was lucky in some respects that due to the fact we were out of play-off contention he could put BPF in and it wouldn't have mattered if he had been awful - PH had also had the benefit of seeing that FW had not really improved over the season despite a brief upturn in form after his recall to the team.

Tom Pearce - with us failing to replace Charlie Taylor this season with CBJ being a spectacular flop, Anita not really being the answer and similarly Berardi could we have a decent enough left back on our hands so once again we are not reliant on the hit and miss transfer strategy. DeBock has so far failed to impress although we should at least give him as many matches to show what he can do as the manager - some people already writing him off yet backing the manager...

Discipline seems to have improved. TC's last few matches were marred with sendings off and these certainly didn't help the team to get results as they continually played with 10 men although bizzarely they produced better performances with 10 men than with 11 against Ipswich, Millwall and Cardiff. With a small squad key players need to be available.

Substitutions - people seem to be suggesting he has been positive with his substitutions.

Tough attitude with players - play badly and unless you have an O at the start of your surname you seem to get banished from the 18 for the next game. It even happened to O'Kane once.

Okay I tried but can't really find any more positives so over to others.

Negatives

Performances have been fairly absymal. For most matches we have been second best for long periods and even in the one win under PH we were second best until we scored. Sheff Wed could have been 2-0 up today before we had a shot. No real sense that PH knows what he is doing or that he has a particular style of playing other than hoofball.

Team selections - constantly picking poor starting line-ups. Lasogga may not run around like a headless chicken but he scores goals. O'Kane continually selected and other poor selections often leading to double substitutions at half time as he tries to correct his wrongs.

Substitutions - Seems to go like for like i.e. swapping a striker for a striker rather than being adventurous and trying to go 2 up top and really going for a win. What's wrong with starting with Lasogga but then bringing Ekuban on with his pace to partner him so that Ekuban causes mayhem and Lasogga is still there to get on the end of the chances?

Results - Well we were in a poor run but that has simply continued and PH doesn't have the history to suggest he was capable of stopping a poor run at Barnsley - for all people make excuses about Barnsley selling their best players once the slide started it never stopped.

Tough stance affecting morale? - Are certain players now playing with no confidence as they don't want to make mistakes and get banished.

Over to everyone else to add more for each side of the debate.
Senor El Weasel

60sUnited
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:38 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by 60sUnited » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:42 pm

I am not suggesting that Heck is the man BUT is it the case with our support that the only way we would give a new manager a fair crack is if his stats in his first seven games were something like Played 7 Won 7. It seems like we will never be able to sit back and say of any future manager ' Remember his first 10 games when we were crap, but we persevered and are now promotion certs ' With Heck or any replacement it dont happen overnight !!

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 21630
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by faaip » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:02 pm

60sUnited wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:42 pm
I am not suggesting that Heck is the man BUT is it the case with our support that the only way we would give a new manager a fair crack is if his stats in his first seven games were something like Played 7 Won 7. It seems like we will never be able to sit back and say of any future manager ' Remember his first 10 games when we were crap, but we persevered and are now promotion certs ' With Heck or any replacement it dont happen overnight !!
Do that and you're a legend and you can go 1 point per game forever after. Even if the first 7 games are a fluke and way to small a sample group to be considered viable
ROOFE - 1-0 !!!

Cjay
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Cjay » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:49 pm

faaip wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:02 pm
Do that and you're a legend and you can go 1 point per game forever after. Even if the first 7 games are a fluke and way to small a sample group to be considered viable
Even if you take out those games TC has a better win percentage and points per game then Hecky

Dont get why people keep using that as a defence.

He has a points per game of 0.75.

TC has a points per game of 1.something.

If you take out TCs start and pretend they were defeats. Say we appointed Hecky to save us from relegation . . . We would have . . .
30points.

4/5s of those down to TC.

Fact is we got a manager in charge of a club showing relegation form and he brought it with him.

User avatar
weasel
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6363
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by weasel » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:02 pm

Just want positives and negatives with a view to next season if PH was in charge on this thread rather than the usual PH debate that has its own thread.
Senor El Weasel

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 21630
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by faaip » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:12 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:49 pm
Even if you take out those games TC has a better win percentage and points per game then Hecky

Dont get why people keep using that as a defence.

He has a points per game of 0.75.

TC has a points per game of 1.something.

If you take out TCs start and pretend they were defeats. Say we appointed Hecky to save us from relegation . . . We would have . . .
30points.

4/5s of those down to TC.

Fact is we got a manager in charge of a club showing relegation form and he brought it with him.
Because this is a team built for TC, and Heck is working within his constraints..TC wrecked the squads confidence and attitude. That has to be rebuilt. All those disciplinary problems almost certainly down to TC's dressing room attitude. Players were playing angry.

Fact is we had a manger showing relegation form and we're having trouble turning it around now. Heck is probably, almost certainly not the answer but he's no worse than TC and has the disadvantage of having TC's team not his own
ROOFE - 1-0 !!!

Cjay
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Cjay » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:39 pm

faaip wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:12 pm
Because this is a team built for TC, and Heck is working within his constraints..TC wrecked the squads confidence and attitude. That has to be rebuilt. All those disciplinary problems almost certainly down to TC's dressing room attitude. Players were playing angry.

Fact is we had a manger showing relegation form and we're having trouble turning it around now. Heck is probably, almost certainly not the answer but he's no worse than TC and has the disadvantage of having Orta's team not his own
I amended it for you . . Happy Birthday :)

Cjay
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Cjay » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:41 pm

Positives.

He has given youngsters a chance, BPF and Pearce.

Thats all I've got.

Bally
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:43 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Bally » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:45 pm

Negatives too many v average players ,Leeds support getting on the managers back already

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 59408
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by 1964white » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:48 pm

Unless Radz changes his strategy on player recruitment I fear relegation next season

We could conceivably lose our best players Jansson, Saiz & Hernandez in the summer too

Clive
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Clive » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:18 am

60sUnited wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:42 pm
I am not suggesting that Heck is the man BUT is it the case with our support that the only way we would give a new manager a fair crack is if his stats in his first seven games were something like Played 7 Won 7. It seems like we will never be able to sit back and say of any future manager ' Remember his first 10 games when we were crap, but we persevered and are now promotion certs ' With Heck or any replacement it dont happen overnight !!
He's only had 8 games here, but he's had 100 and odd at Barnsley. He's never finished higher than 14th and he's dragged us down to his level. How can anyone expect him to build a promotion team when he's never done it before?

Bally
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:43 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Bally » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:46 am

Clive wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:18 am
He's only had 8 games here, but he's had 100 and odd at Barnsley. He's never finished higher than 14th and he's dragged us down to his level. How can anyone expect him to build a promotion team when he's never done it before?
Ffs he's 40 years of age what had Don Revie done as manager before he managed Leeds.
What had Brian Clough done before he managed Derby?

Clive
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Clive » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:58 am

I could argue against the positives but I might end up labelled as a madman who thinks Heckingbottom can do no right...well that horse has already bolted so I will do.

BPF - He's done well, but hasn't looked anything special. It's good for him that he's getting a run of games, but we're still losing and if he's our long term number one then we're in trouble.

Pearce - It was a nothing debut for me. He didn't look terrible, but he didn't look confident and didn't really make much of an impression, so I'll be surprised if anything comes of him. Heckingbottom has said youngsters have to force their way in, that it sends out the wrong message to throw them in for the sake of it, yet that's exactly what he's done with the two he's played. They've only got a chance because they play in problem positions, not because they've been outstanding. It's more a case of him being afraid to play players in poor form than not being afraid to give players a chance. As you've pointed out before, Weasel, Byram forced his way in ahead of a right back Warnock had just spent decent money on.

As far as discipline goes, we had a freakish run of sending offs under TC, but he has to take some responsibility. Heckingbottom has maybe gone too far the other way and we've lost our edge. It's no good not picking up cards if you're losing. It's easy to lose and not get booked or sent off.

The substitutions have only worked out because he got the starting line up wrong and usually leaves one of his best players on the bench.

Mourinho can have a tough attitude with his players because of his track record, if some bloke from Barnsley who's won 1 in 16 turns up and starts laying down the law the players are gonna wonder who the hell he thinks he is.

Bally
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:43 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Bally » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:02 am

Clive wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:58 am
I could argue against the positives but I might end up labelled as a madman who thinks Heckingbottom can do no right...well that horse has already bolted so I will do.

BPF - He's done well, but hasn't looked anything special. It's good for him that he's getting a run of games, but we're still losing and if he's our long term number one then we're in trouble.

Pearce - It was a nothing debut for me. He didn't look terrible, but he didn't look confident and didn't really make much of an impression, so I'll be surprised if anything comes of him. Heckingbottom has said youngsters have to force their way in, that it sends out the wrong message to throw them in for the sake of it, yet that's exactly what he's done with the two he's played. They've only got a chance because they play in problem positions, not because they've been outstanding. It's more a case of him being afraid to play players in poor form than not being afraid to give players a chance. As you've pointed out before, Weasel, Byram forced his way in ahead of a right back Warnock had just spent decent money on.

As far as discipline goes, we had a freakish run of sending offs under TC, but he has to take some responsibility. Heckingbottom has maybe gone too far the other way and we've lost our edge. It's no good not picking up cards if you're losing. It's easy to lose and not get booked or sent off.

The substitutions have only worked out because he got the starting line up wrong and usually leaves one of his best players on the bench.

Mourinho can have a tough attitude with his players because of his track record, if some bloke from Barnsley who's won 1 in 16 turns up and starts laying down the law the players are gonna wonder who the hell he thinks he is.
Just like I wonder who you are

Clive
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Clive » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:04 am

Bally wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:46 am
Ffs he's 40 years of age what had Don Revie done as manager before he managed Leeds.
What had Brian Clough done before he managed Derby?
People said the same about Grayson, he's now older than Don Revie when he left England, and what's he done?

Revie got Leeds up as champions and established them as contenders for major trophies before he was 40.

It's all the same arguments we've seen before to defend these no mark managers, yet you never hear them for the better ones. It's weird.

Clive
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Clive » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:08 am

Bally wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:02 am
Just like I wonder who you are
It doesn't matter who I am because I'm not managing Leeds.

I'm just some idiot on a forum.

MOT didn't pay 500 grand compensation to take me from not606.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 59408
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by 1964white » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:07 am

Clive wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:08 am
It doesn't matter who I am because I'm not managing Leeds.

I'm just some idiot on a forum.

MOT didn't pay 500 grand compensation to take me from not606.
I assume that is you back on not606 under the username 'Heckingbuttons OUT' ?

If not you've been cloned

User avatar
Richard
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:50 am
Twitter: @northantsmanvan
Location: Northampton
Contact:

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Richard » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:32 am

Those poisitive are barrel scraping Weasel but full marks for trying I’ll give you that. Pearce is he any better than young Denton? Granted the young goalie is better than the other dross but he is bang average and prone to Rookie mistakes. If we want Top 6 we’ll not get it next season with him in goal.

For me Coyle back in at RB and Berardi at LB better than anything we currently have available, now who was it who signed us Anita and De Bock and gave them lengthy contracts to solve our LB problem? Oh yes Orta, and who was it who sent out players like Coyle and Antonnson on loan, TC so in all it’s been a circus of decisions and appointments.

Orta, TC, PH none of them good enough to be at our club.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 59408
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by 1964white » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:38 am

Richard wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:32 am
Those poisitive are barrel scraping Weasel but full marks for trying I’ll give you that. Pearce is he any better than young Denton? Granted the young goalie is better than the other dross but he is bang average and prone to Rookie mistakes. If we want Top 6 we’ll not get it next season with him in goal.

For me Coyle back in at RB and Berardi at LB better than anything we currently have available, now who was it who signed us Anita and De Bock and gave them lengthy contracts to solve our LB problem? Oh yes Orta, and who was it who sent out players like Coyle and Antonnson on loan, TC so in all it’s been a circus of decisions and appointments.
Coyle should have returned in January as soon as Ayling was seriously injured, he wasn't far away imo, better than the majority of our bench players plus he is our only attacking full-back, meanwhile we spent money on De Bock :roll:

Just show naive/slow-thinking our top management is :(

Clive
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Positives & Negatives

Post by Clive » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:40 am

1964white wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:07 am
I assume that is you back on not606 under the username 'Heckingbuttons OUT' ?

If not you've been cloned
I'm not the only one who wants Heckingbottom out, you know.

I haven't seen them, but it could be my old mate, Meme. I hope he finds this place soon, he's a good character. :-D

Post Reply