Paul Heckingbottom

[Cjay]

I'm not convinced, any manager who allows that much control over him is not management suited to start with so not buying it as that cut and dried..We had two wing backs here to start the season

Agreed.

To allow that shows a desperate imo.

Dont blame TC or PH for taking the job under those circumstances.

One was in Cyprus, a chance to move to a bigger club etc.

One was likely out of a job in the summer.

Ayling and who? Whose the left wing back we had?

Cant be Alioski because he was signed on the back of his breakthrough season as an attacking winger.

[Cjay]

I remember Heckingbottom's comments at the time, he just made himself look weak. He should either leave it as it is and keep quiet, or put his foot down and do it his way. His way wasn't working too well for Barnsley.

I think we'd be better off with Orta as caretaker rather than Heckingbottom.

This idea that Orta is some evil mastermind who is taking advantage of the innocent Radrizzani, and everything will be alright if we get rid of him, is ridiculous. In situations like this everyone is taking advantage of each other, that's the problem.

When Monk signed players from his old club, who had the same agent as him, and didn't play them, were you wondering about agent's pockets being lined?

Think you should do a bit of checking on Orta tbh.

He ran into the Boro dressing room after a game and demanded to speak to "his players". The Boro gk coack had to physically remove him.

Such was his influence at Boro he was known there as "Karanka's Unofficial Assistant".

A huge part of the reason for his sacking and the immediate removal of everyone brought in by him was because he had created an us and them mentality.

This isn't conspiracy theories, this happened its reported.

I dont mind him staying, but he needs to be working for the manager, not the other way around.

No coaches brought in by him, he controls scouting, transfer negotiations, identifies players for the manager to decide on or chases targets the manager names, thats all he should do.

Never go near the training ground except to watch, never go in the dressing room, what business does he have in there?

Orta has a part to play but to get a good manager like we all want, Orta needs toning down.

[Clive]

Think you should do a bit of checking on Orta tbh.

He ran into the Boro dressing room after a game and demanded to speak to "his players". The Boro gk coack had to physically remove him.

Such was his influence at Boro he was known there as "Karanka's Unofficial Assistant".

A huge part of the reason for his sacking and the immediate removal of everyone brought in by him was because he had created an us and them mentality.

This isn't conspiracy theories, this happened its reported.

I dont mind him staying, but he needs to be working for the manager, not the other way around.

No coaches brought in by him, he controls scouting, transfer negotiations, identifies players for the manager to decide on or chases targets the manager names, thats all he should do.

Never go near the training ground except to watch, never go in the dressing room, what business does he have in there?

Orta has a part to play but to get a good manager like we all want, Orta needs toning down.

There are two sides to every story.

I'm not advocating Orta staying, I'm just saying it's been worse without him before and it could be again.

People say there's no point in wanting a top manager because they won't work with Orta, well ask for a top manager and if they don't want to work with Orta they will say so and Radz will have to change the set-up.

If you just ask for Orta to go then you could be left with Heckingbottom and it will probably get worse.

[Gino 1959]

Managers should manage. If they don't, then, they are not managers. If not being allowed to manage, then, it shows the ego and/insecurity of those above. However, if allowing himself not to manage because of those above, then, he should feck off.

Weak manager = weak team.

[Cjay]

There are two sides to every story.

I'm not advocating Orta staying, I'm just saying it's been worse without him before and it could be again.

People say there's no point in wanting a top manager because they won't work with Orta, well ask for a top manager and if they don't want to work with Orta they will say so and Radz will have to change the set-up.

If you just ask for Orta to go then you could be left with Heckingbottom and it will probably get worse.

But Radz clearly very much values Orta's opinion, saving TC from being sacked, allowing Orta to bring in his friends (make no mistake they are here because Orta told Radz they are good).

So chances are Radz wouldnt sack Orta if a manager doesnt want to work with him. . . . . . . .HOWEVERRRRRRRRRRRRR

That was then, this is now, from the tone of Radz recently he is deeply well, pissed off.

Vocal about the players, that means Orta is in the firing line, Radz isnt happy with the players, the way things have gone all that stuff.

As Radz has been saying "this is a top 6 squad", thats been the line all season. Im sure he is a fan like us all, as a football fan that may have been his opinion, but one man who Radz would have looked to for clarification, Victor Orta.

Well it clearly isnt a top 6 squad, Hecky hasnt improved anything (we dont know who picked Hecky, maybe Orta, probably a combination of Orta identifying and Radz talking, who knows). But whatever, Radz now knows firstly, this squad he believed was top 6 material and im sure was told by his Director Of Football was, well it isnt fit for what it was supposed to be for. Secondly, changing the manager hasnt worked, if anything its gotten worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if Orta faces a very serious inquest in the summer about what went wrong, Radz is all about PR and this season has been a disaster.

I expect to see changes, probably Hecky going, possibly Orta, at the very least a change in strategy.

[Richard]

There are two sides to every story.

I'm not advocating Orta staying, I'm just saying it's been worse without him before and it could be again.

People say there's no point in wanting a top manager because they won't work with Orta, well ask for a top manager and if they don't want to work with Orta they will say so and Radz will have to change the set-up.

If you just ask for Orta to go then you could be left with Heckingbottom and it will probably get worse.

Been worse without Orta - Don’t confuse that with getting rid of Bates, GFH and Cellino. Ortas arrival coincides with Rads and the money he put in.

Look at it another way, roll the clock back to the day Monk left. Imagine if Rads had hired Alex Neil and by the way, I agree with you, he’d be a great choice. Imagine no Orta, Rads turns to Neil gives him the same budget and says to him use it wisely.

Do you believe we’d be in a better position because I certainly do. Rads won’t sack Orta and leave PH in place as PH has admitted he doesn’t like to manage, he just wants to coach.

If Orta goes both will go because it will mean a change of direction for Rads

[Richard]

But Radz clearly very much values Orta's opinion, saving TC from being sacked, allowing Orta to bring in his friends (make no mistake they are here because Orta told Radz they are good).

So chances are Radz wouldnt sack Orta if a manager doesnt want to work with him. . . . . . . .HOWEVERRRRRRRRRRRRR

That was then, this is now, from the tone of Radz recently he is deeply well, pissed off.

Vocal about the players, that means Orta is in the firing line, Radz isnt happy with the players, the way things have gone all that stuff.

As Radz has been saying "this is a top 6 squad", thats been the line all season. Im sure he is a fan like us all, as a football fan that may have been his opinion, but one man who Radz would have looked to for clarification, Victor Orta.

Well it clearly isnt a top 6 squad, Hecky hasnt improved anything (we dont know who picked Hecky, maybe Orta, probably a combination of Orta identifying and Radz talking, who knows). But whatever, Radz now knows firstly, this squad he believed was top 6 material and im sure was told by his Director Of Football was, well it isnt fit for what it was supposed to be for. Secondly, changing the manager hasnt worked, if anything its gotten worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if Orta faces a very serious inquest in the summer about what went wrong, Radz is all about PR and this season has been a disaster.

I expect to see changes, probably Hecky going, possibly Orta, at the very least a change in strategy.

Again I agree with all this, Rads is at the games, he has to watch players like De Bock and Anita and think “how much, wtf” he is a successful businessman, he didn’t achieve where he got to by inheritance like Cellino. I have faith he will have a clean sweep before next season stars, if he doesn’t he’ll go down in my estimations

[Clive]

Been worse without Orta - Don’t confuse that with getting rid of Bates, GFH and Cellino. Ortas arrival coincides with Rads and the money he put in.

Look at it another way, roll the clock back to the day Monk left. Imagine if Rads had hired Alex Neil and by the way, I agree with you, he’d be a great choice. Imagine no Orta, Rads turns to Neil gives him the same budget and says to him use it wisely.

Do you believe we’d be in a better position because I certainly do. Rads won’t sack Orta and leave PH in place as PH has admitted he doesn’t like to manage, he just wants to coach.

If Orta goes both will go because it will mean a change of direction for Rads

But my point is no Orta = no Saiz or Alioski, and maybe Heckingbottom at the start of the season which could have meant relegation.

If you want Alex Neil ask for him and let Radz worry about giving him what he wants.

[Richard]

But my point is no Orta = no Saiz or Alioski, and maybe Heckingbottom at the start of the season which could have meant relegation.

If you want Alex Neil ask for him and let Radz worry about giving him what he wants.

Alioski is average, Saiz is decent but greedy, he isn’t a team player and they are in a team doing nothing decent. Two players out of all those signings is abysmal. It would have meant not having those but maybe far better players and not the likes of Felix, Anita, Lasogga, Grot, Ekuban, Sacko, maybe a team of players who play well as a team. I believe a team who would be currently higher than we are.

The main difference between you and I Clive is I look at everything. If we have a poor owner I’ll call it. If we have a poor signing or coach I’ll do the same but I’ll give everyone a chance before doing so. You always focus on the manager or head coach, You don’t look at the bigger picture, it’s always black and white, it doesn’t matter to you if one had funds and one didn’t or if one was undermined by Cellino/Orta

You get a bee in your bonnet about a manager/coach and all Leeds woes fall on one mans shoulders. Oh and when you said that wasn’t you signing up at the other forum under a different name, the mods ran some checks decided it was and banned “you” again, just a heads up

[Clive]

Alioski is average, Saiz is decent but greedy, he isn’t a team player and they are in a team doing nothing decent. Two players out of all those signings is abysmal. It would have meant not having those but maybe far better players and not the likes of Felix, Anita, Lasogga, Grot, Ekuban, Sacko, maybe a team of players who play well as a team. I believe a team who would be currently higher than we are.

The main difference between you and I Clive is I look at everything. If we have a poor owner I’ll call it. If we have a poor signing or coach I’ll do the same but I’ll give everyone a chance before doing so. You always focus on the manager or head coach, You don’t look at the bigger picture, it’s always black and white, it doesn’t matter to you if one had funds and one didn’t or if one was undermined by Cellino/Orta

You get a bee in your bonnet about a manager/coach and all Leeds woes fall on one mans shoulders. Oh and when you said that wasn’t you signing up at the other forum under a different name, the mods ran some checks decided it was and banned “you” again, just a heads up

I always look at the bigger picture, but it's quite simple, if you don't have a good manager you're not going to do anything.

You don't seem to be giving Heckingbottom a chance.

I get banned and called all the names under the sun for speaking out against certain managers, but I've been right every time.

Those saddos can do all the checks they like, it wasn't me. I saw the posts and it was clearly my old mate Meme, we're not the same person. If he was my character he'd have appeared by now, I'm disappointed he hasn't found this place yet.

[Cjay]

Alioski is average, Saiz is decent but greedy, he isn’t a team player and they are in a team doing nothing decent. Two players out of all those signings is abysmal. It would have meant not having those but maybe far better players and not the likes of Felix, Anita, Lasogga, Grot, Ekuban, Sacko, maybe a team of players who play well as a team. I believe a team who would be currently higher than we are.

The main difference between you and I Clive is I look at everything. If we have a poor owner I’ll call it. If we have a poor signing or coach I’ll do the same but I’ll give everyone a chance before doing so. You always focus on the manager or head coach, You don’t look at the bigger picture, it’s always black and white, it doesn’t matter to you if one had funds and one didn’t or if one was undermined by Cellino/Orta

You get a bee in your bonnet about a manager/coach and all Leeds woes fall on one mans shoulders. Oh and when you said that wasn’t you signing up at the other forum under a different name, the mods ran some checks decided it was and banned “you” again, just a heads up

I have never read such rubbish Somebody ban him, average . How DARE he speak this way. Lionel Messi refers to himself as the Argentinian Alioski!!!!!!!!

[Cjay]

Again I agree with all this, Rads is at the games, he has to watch players like De Bock and Anita and think “how much, wtf” he is a successful businessman, he didn’t achieve where he got to by inheritance like Cellino. I have faith he will have a clean sweep before next season stars, if he doesn’t he’ll go down in my estimations

Agreed, i hope.

I have deep concerns about Radz, but he has been around football some time, he made his money in it.

So will hope for the best, this summer had better be good.

[weasel]

I think blaming Orta for all the woes at Leeds is far too easy to do. Sure some signings have been poor, some have been good but a lot are still too early to be judged. Take Grot for example and the potential is there but he is a young lad playing a strange country, having to learn the language, the culture, the style of football etc. He got his goal at the weekend and we may now see the difference confidence can make to a player, similarly we may see it with Ekuban.

As for the zonal marking PH said in his interview he went with man marking at Barnsley but was basically going to see how zonal went with Leeds before deciding whether to make a change and he also pointed out that statistics back up zonal marking. I always preferred zonal marking from corner kicks as a player manager as it means you can get your players that are best at heading actually attacking the ball in the danger areas rather than trying to get everyone to pick up a man and hoping that no one would switch off or that every player you have would actually try to win the header. In or 5 seasons we conceded 2 goals from corners playing zonal, yet when we went back to man marking for 1 game (we had a few new players who felt they knew it all etc) we conceded 3 goals in the opening 45 minutes. Last year zonal marking worked for Leeds as it enabled players such as Jannson to be able to simply attack the ball if it came into the area he was defending.

That is why we have people analysing stuff and being specialists in certain areas. Yes won't get everything 100% right because guess what the opposition will be trying stuff too. Same as in the transfer market we won't get everything right just because we have a team researching players etc. What we will have though is more chance of picking up a foreign jewel for a bargain price rather than paying 3 times as much for someone who has impressed at league 1 or 2 level.

[gessa]

Stick until end of season then twist , unless someone more suitable becomes available before seasons end.

[Cjay]

PH on the summer: "We want to compete at the top the table, regardless of budget. Once we are clear who we want to stay, who we want to be a part of the squad, and who we don't then we will have those conversations" #lufc

PH on squad: "As people they have been good and the response has been good. We are going to have to do a lot of things better next season if we are going to try and get in that top 6 especially if we are going to have a mid-table budget" #lufc

Thats how you sell them tickets . . . . .Talk about overachieving because we are skint and have a mid table budget. . . . Said give him to the end of the season, but he has got to go then. He is negative, always talking down things, did the same at Barnsley, talks down to lower expectations. just Pish off.

[Gino 1959]

And we should be scouting the next manager now. I would proactively go after someone doing well in a job - preferably in this division or a similar level overseas - rather than some out of work loser or a bluffer like Cotterill, Adkins, Pardew, Westley etc.

[Richard]

PH on the summer: "We want to compete at the top the table, regardless of budget. Once we are clear who we want to stay, who we want to be a part of the squad, and who we don't then we will have those conversations" #lufc

PH on squad: "As people they have been good and the response has been good. We are going to have to do a lot of things better next season if we are going to try and get in that top 6 especially if we are going to have a mid-table budget" #lufc

Thats how you sell them tickets . . . . .Talk about overachieving because we are skint and have a mid table budget. . . . Said give him to the end of the season, but he has got to go then. He is negative, always talking down things, did the same at Barnsley, talks down to lower expectations. just Pish off.

To think TC got the sack for failing to manage top 6 and things have got worse since PH took over, I didn't want him at the start and the sooner he goes the better

[Cjay]

To think TC got the sack for failing to manage top 6 and things have got worse since PH took over, I didn't want him at the start and the sooner he goes the better

Didnt say it there.

But in another interview he said something like "Next season we will have to overachieve given our budget if we want to make top 6".

So we aim for mid table but hope for the best? Because to overachieve you have to be aiming for lower.

Think he still thinks he's at Barnsley where they had a really low budget and had to "overachieve" to avoid relegation.

He's constantly looking for excuses before the event, players arent good enough, are where we deserve to be, bigger budgets in the league etc. Just full of deflection tactics.

How about getting the best out of a squad? You know, like good managers do. Fergusons last side wasnt the best squad, but he got them to the title.

Heckingbottom has a negative, cliche driven mindset.

[Clive]

PH on the summer: "We want to compete at the top the table, regardless of budget. Once we are clear who we want to stay, who we want to be a part of the squad, and who we don't then we will have those conversations" #lufc

PH on squad: "As people they have been good and the response has been good. We are going to have to do a lot of things better next season if we are going to try and get in that top 6 especially if we are going to have a mid-table budget" #lufc

Thats how you sell them tickets . . . . .Talk about overachieving because we are skint and have a mid table budget. . . . Said give him to the end of the season, but he has got to go then. He is negative, always talking down things, did the same at Barnsley, talks down to lower expectations. just Pish off.

Grayson was the same.

I always say ambition is about attitude not money. But then Warnock said he was going for promotion and the fans attacked him with that when we fell short.

[Clive]

And we should be scouting the next manager now. I would proactively go after someone doing well in a job - preferably in this division or a similar level overseas - rather than some out of work loser or a bluffer like Cotterill, Adkins, Pardew, Westley etc.

Alex Neil is the one who stands out for me.