Negativity

[Cjay]

Getting a bit fed up of the us and them negative and non negative divide thats developing on here.

People saying they refuse to post because of negativity.

Seen it on other forums never here before.

As a so called "negative" i just want to know quite simply and calmly without this descending into a farce and war.

Why is it considered negative to judge a manager on results?

Forget performances and what could have happened, football managers have always been judged on results.


So why is this now considered being negative?

[Ronan]

I am just apathetic....we are so average at the moment...can't wait for this disappointment of a season to be over.

[Cjay]

I am just apathetic....we are so average at the moment...can't wait for this disappointment of a season to be over.

Just dont understand the logic.

Back at the beginning of November people here were talking about sacking TC getting in Big Sam and if not we would be in a relegation battle in December.

9 games he was judged on then, between Millwall and Brentford.

11 games and anyone who complains about Heckingbottom's results is being "negative".

People admitted the squad wasnt good enough back in November, still wasnt good enough when the fans and Radz decided TC had to go.

Now the squads still not good enough, we have dropped lower then at any point this season since Heckingbottom took over but dont say he's doing a poor job because its negative.

Blah like you I've had enough for one season.

[Gino 1959]

Why is it considered negative to judge a manager on results?

My whole working life in sales was based on results.

I lived/died by them.

Same with what I'm doing now in 'retirement'.

If I don't produce, then, I'm not successful.

Doesn't matter what else heckingarse is doing as results suggest he is failing.

[Gino 1959]

Blah like you I've had enough for one season.

I switched off a while ago.

[Bally]

My whole working life in sales was based on results.

I lived/died by them.

Same with what I'm doing now in 'retirement'.

If I don't produce, then, I'm not successful.

Doesn't matter what else heckingarse is doing as results suggest he is failing.

You start a new job and aren't given good enough tools you won't do a v good job Same with Heckinbottom

[Cjay]

You start a new job and aren't given good enough tools you won't do a v good job Same with Heckinbottom

What if you did a poor job in your last job to and your predecessor did a better job with the same tools as you?

[Richard]

It doesn’t bother me reading negative or positive posts as long as they are fair, it’s easy to get into the habit of being negative though. I think the divide between fans is more down to who is to blame for this seasons collapse. Some want to vent more anger at PH and others Orta, previous seasons we’ve all hated Bates, GFH and eventually Cellino but this season it’s hard to know where the blame lays.

It’s also hard to vent at Rads because he’s brought our ground back and invested in both players and infrastructure but some want more and believe it is PR, I want him to sack Orta others are angry he sacked TC for PH and I believe it is these divides that cause more heated debates everywhere, Forums, twitter and FB

[HarryofOz]

I don't care if you are positive or negative or what is interpreted as positivity or negativity.

I object to having innumerable threads on the same topic where the same opinions are stated over and over again.

[Gino 1959]

You start a new job and aren't given good enough tools you won't do a v good job Same with Heckinbottom

Numerous examples of a manager coming into a club performing badly and turning it around with the same players.

And turning individual players into world-beaters!

The players probably are not responding to him because they know he isn't up to the job (as some of them are not either).

Yes the average players who are more interested in their wage packet than playing for the shirt

Can't say that about Pablo, Pontus or BPF under Hecky.....once again class prevails !

[1964white]

Numerous examples of a manager coming into a club performing badly and turning it around with the same players.

And turning individual players into world-beaters!

The players probably are not responding to him because they know he isn't up to the job (as some of them are not either)

Yes the average players who are more interested in their wage packet than playing for their shirt

Can't say that about Pablo, Pontus or BPF under Hecky.....once again class prevails !

[Ronan]

LUFC at the moment sadly

[becchio bear]

I don't care if you are positive or negative or what is interpreted as positivity or negativity.

I object to having innumerable threads on the same topic where the same opinions are stated over and over again.

This sums it up perfectly.

Of course the manager/coach is going to be discussed whether they are doing well or not, same as players are going to be discussed.

[Bally]

What if you did a poor job in your last job to and your predecessor did a better job with the same tools as you?

Christiansen wasn't doing a great job either or he wouldn't of been sacked .
The last time I say this Heckingbnottom should be allowed to get his own players in before he's judged

[1964white]

Christiansen wasn't doing a great job either or he wouldn't of been sacked .
The last time I say this Heckingbnottom should be allowed to get his own players in before he's judged

Not sure Orta will agree for the thought of losing his DOF position

[Clive]

Christiansen wasn't doing a great job either or he wouldn't of been sacked .
The last time I say this Heckingbnottom should be allowed to get his own players in before he's judged

You're not a Leeds fan, so mind your own business.

Heckingbottom hasn't taken over a team in a relegation battle, he's taken over a team that was in contention for the play-offs.

I really hope it is the last time you say that Heckingbottom should be allowed to get his own players in before he's judged, because it's a ridiculous thing to say.

[Cjay]

Christiansen wasn't doing a great job either or he wouldn't of been sacked .
The last time I say this Heckingbnottom should be allowed to get his own players in before he's judged

He was doing a hell of a lot better then Heckingbottom, not with his players either, with Orta's.

Gary Monk, Tony Pulis, Paul Clement,hell the bloke who took over at Barnsley, they all have got more out of there squads then the previous manager without having "there players".

Hecky won 1 in 16 with his players.

Horrible cliche that is "he needs his players".

[Norm]

Gino 1959 wrote: ↑

Numerous examples of a manager coming into a club performing badly and turning it around with the same players.

And turning individual players into world-beaters!

The players probably are not responding to him because they know he isn't up to the job (as some of them are not either).

Yes the average players who are more interested in their wage packet than playing for the shirt

Can't say that about Pablo, Pontus or BPF under Hecky.....once again class prevails !

True

[NorfolkWhite]

I don't care if you are positive or negative or what is interpreted as positivity or negativity.

I object to having innumerable threads on the same topic where the same opinions are stated over and over again.

This - it's been more a case of having a point of view rammed down your throat constantly and browbeating anybody who doesn't toe the party line. There is a tendency with football fans to speak in the way of guarantees, spend more on players x, y and z and we would have got promoted, appoint [insert name] as manager and he would have improved us - in truth there are no guarantees and those opinions never have to be tested, it always worries me when people tell me they know what is going to happen, especially from behind a keyboard on an internet forum.

For the record - I don't think PH is the man for the job and never did.

[weasel]

The trouble is that if PH was allowed to bring his players in and then failed would the next manager employ a style of play that was suited to those players PH had brought in That has been the problem for years in that we have gone from one extreme to the other in the terms of the managers we have employed and their style of play with the likes of Rosler and TC employing a continental style, Evans and Warnock more direct, Redfearn and McDermott making it up as they went along (Redfearn ditching the style he had used in the academy). Even if TC was the wrong manager, in some people's eyes, then we should have replaced him with someone with a similar way of playing and a similar way to how the academy sides are playing.

Until we sort that out we will just continue to have a squad of players where half the players don't really fit the manager's plans so that we always have a few decent players but not enough for a good team.Evolution not revolution is what is needed same as we don't need to get rid of all the players we just need to add 2 or 3 quality players that will help make some of the other players play better.