Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by dezzy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:18 am

1964white wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:05 am
Not many, you could say that about the majority of the players that started at Norwich

Still missing an experienced midfielder who when fit is better than Vieira & Philips. Next season's captain I suspect

Poor poor squad of misfits
All those players being out, didn’t allow us to pick a consistent 11, our back for chopped and changed, as you say, your not a fan of some of the above players, but consistency in team selection allows development and improvement.
As for bargains, I’m september, we had bargains, now in April we don’t, all down to interpretation, but right now it looks like we were doing our shopping in one of those dodgy shops you find in resorts in Spain, look great but break after a few weeks.
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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by Cjay » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:49 pm

radebe88 wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:10 pm
Hi CJAY

I think you open a great debate and I value your contribution to the forum.

Discussing “bargains” I have my own theory. I think our club is very unique in the this division. Maddison, Dack, Dean. Watkins etc were all signed by clubs that I consider smaller than us, with different expectations. I think if any of those clubs had signed Roofe then he also would be considered a success and a bargain.

If you look at what wolves have done, they certainly haven’t gone for bargains. However I know this is quite unrealistic. I would rather however attempt to sign established championship players or fringe players from the premier league. Bartley, Charlie Adam... I would even take Peter Crouch for a season as back up to another striker.

Hope my theory above was as clear written down as it was in my head :duno:
Hi Rad.

Thanks very much :)

I understand your point.

That is a downside with our club and our fan base, we expect so much, anything less then our expectations is considered a collosal failure who needs to go at the earliest opportunity.

I understand your point, sign players with more experience who may not be as intimidated by our club and demanding fan base?

Think Crouch has signed a new deal at Stoke and Bartley has suffered a nasty injury it seems :(

Think you may be right, bit more experience with some bargains thrown in be nice.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by Cjay » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:04 pm

fred wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:29 am
Maybe you did so. But as you can`t prove that, why don`t you name players who you concider to be possible bargains for this
coming trasfer period?
I did, but alright then.
Erhun Oztumer at Walsall is my pick for a bargain this summer.


Current market? Isn`t that the meaning of `supply and demand`? Don`t get what you tried to explain in regard to Maddison.
No i mean more a players value reflected by the transfer fees currently being paid. Pboro had a price this January that reflected his value based on the transfer values of others in this league, but in the Summer this was greatl;y reduced in order to sell for some money in case his contract ran out

This doesn`t imply that more interested clubs wouldn`t have caused the trasfer fee to rise as far as I can make out.

We cant know that though, thats just a theory, all we can know is his value was reduced in correlation to his contract running down.
O.k., but this is certainly not the normal case.

.
That makes these players a special kind of `bargains`. Under regular conditions the fees would have been nearer to their actual worth.
Maybe so, but i was arguing that they were bargains, which they were for whatever reason having been sold for below there true value.

See above answer.


My point being that under regular circumstances (supply and demand) the number of interested clubs, caused by knowledge who is a bargain in beforehand, would make the fee rise maybe to a level where the label `bargain would be inappropiate.
Yes, under normal circumstances without contracts running down the fees would have been higher and the term "bargain" may not have been appropriate, but on these occasions it was, which is the only point i was making from the start, in these cases they were bargains. If our club didnt have the knowledge to know that these quite well known players were going to go for less then there market value then again thats an issue for them.

Well, if our scouting system is also focussed on detecting bargains in lower English leagues then it would seem to be a failure
of the system or relevant people within the scouting system. If one presumes that real bargains can be detected in beforehand by people with the right qualities and knowledge (within an effective system) then that conclusion seems logical.
Maybe they were on our radar, but estimated as players not suited for our team/squad for whatever reasons. (It`s not even clear if TC had a word in transfers or not.) We did seem to be focussed (only?) on continental leagues though.
I think that is the crux of it, we knew we didnt have much to spend and Radz deceided that it was impossible to pick up good value in England thus instructed his scouts and Orta to look abroad. Then in January he changed his plan somewhat, by this time it was to late. A flaw in our scouting network, a flaw in our recruitment policy, and by all accounts its a flaw that is being addressed now as we are going to look closer to home (apparently)

O.k., I`ll take your word for it.



Thanks for this answer. Provided some information I was unaware of (and partly didn`t understand).
Still intersted in players on your radar for the coming tranfer window. :twisted:
Nick Powell at Wigan, contract running down.
Erhun Otzumer (best bargain imo) out of contract at Walsall.
Ben Wilmot- Stevenage cb.
Matt Clarke at Pompey
Macauley Bonne- Leyton Orient
Jordan Willis- Coventry

Its hard to know who is a bargain before you know the fee a club will accept (thats down to our club to find out then decide), but it definitely say Erhun Oztumer is a bargain since he is out of contract.

(Still believe we must buy 3 proven players who will cost serious money and/or demand higher wages if we want to have a real chance of promotion next season. Of course one can say that the aim is to challenge for promotion in two or three seasons, building a team for then, but that wouldn`t be a good move in regard to signing new good players or keeping the good players we have. And the fans wouldn`t take it very good either I guess.)
I worry from Heckingbottoms comments that promotion isnt on the agenda next season anyway, he was quoted as saying that he "sees no reason why we cant compete in the top half next season), thats not a man aiming for the stars.
Which 3 players if it was upto you would you sign realistically?

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by SG90 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:15 pm

Bartley has picked up another knee ligament injury, his second in less than a year. Given Swansea wanted £8m for him, that's too big a risk to pay if he's injury prone. We should look elsewhere, i.e. Helander.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by SG90 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:24 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:04 pm
I worry from Heckingbottoms comments that promotion isnt on the agenda next season anyway, he was quoted as saying that he "sees no reason why we cant compete in the top half next season), thats not a man aiming for the stars.
Which 3 players if it was upto you would you sign realistically?
How are any of those players better than what we have already?

3 players I'd sign - Filip Helander, Clement Grenier, Abel Hernandez.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by Cjay » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:48 pm

SG90 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:24 pm
How are any of those players better than what we have already?

3 players I'd sign - Filip Helander, Clement Grenier, Abel Hernandez.
3 excellent signings.

Abel Hernandez is on north of £25k a week, probably has ambitions above this league.
Helander didnt come last summer, would he come this summer? who knows.
Grenier is a former French international, is he going to drop down to the 2nd tier of England and i bet his wages arent low either.

How do you convince them to sign?

We cant throw cash at them so you have to sell the club to 3 internationals, 2 of which are playing at a higher level now.

Erhun Oztumer is to good for league 1 his stats back that up, in deed his stats are better then Samu Saiz's in the second tier of Spain which i doubt is any better then league 1.

Ben Wilmot is regarded as one of the best young cb around in this country, tracked by all the top teams.

Nick Powell is proven in the Championship and has just had a superb season 1 league below.

Matt Clarke similar to Wilmot is very highly rated and has been strongly linked with Brighton, Watford and Wolves since January.

Macauley Bonne is a gut feeling, done well in the lower league this season, still young, a possible Jamie Vardy story imo.

Jordan Willis is in a team nearby so i hear a lot about him.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by SG90 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:03 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:48 pm
3 excellent signings.

Abel Hernandez is on north of £25k a week, probably has ambitions above this league.
Helander didnt come last summer, would he come this summer? who knows.
Grenier is a former French international, is he going to drop down to the 2nd tier of England and i bet his wages arent low either.

How do you convince them to sign?

We cant throw cash at them so you have to sell the club to 3 internationals, 2 of which are playing at a higher level now.

Erhun Oztumer is to good for league 1 his stats back that up, in deed his stats are better then Samu Saiz's in the second tier of Spain which i doubt is any better then league 1.

Ben Wilmot is regarded as one of the best young cb around in this country, tracked by all the top teams.

Nick Powell is proven in the Championship and has just had a superb season 1 league below.

Matt Clarke similar to Wilmot is very highly rated and has been strongly linked with Brighton, Watford and Wolves since January.

Macauley Bonne is a gut feeling, done well in the lower league this season, still young, a possible Jamie Vardy story imo.

Jordan Willis is in a team nearby so i hear a lot about him.
We never actually bid for Helander, it was just links. I'm sure Pontus could persuade him to come. Grenier went to Guingamp and only has one year left, we can surely compete with them. If we want a top striker in this league, then we have to spend £25k+, save the £4m they're contemplating on Mkagobu.

How did we convince Pablo, Saiz, Alioski, Pontus to join? Start showing some ambition for a change.

La Liga 2 is better than League 1 and La Liga clubs wanted Saiz. Do any PL clubs want Oztumer? We have enough young talent in our u23, what's the point in signing more?

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by Cjay » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:28 pm

SG90 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:03 pm
We never actually bid for Helander, it was just links. I'm sure Pontus could persuade him to come. Grenier went to Guingamp and only has one year left, we can surely compete with them. If we want a top striker in this league, then we have to spend £25k+, save the £4m they're contemplating on Mkagobu.

How did we convince Pablo, Saiz, Alioski, Pontus to join? Start showing some ambition for a change.

La Liga 2 is better than League 1 and La Liga clubs wanted Saiz. Do any PL clubs want Oztumer? We have enough young talent in our u23, what's the point in signing more?
I agree they'd be great signings, just dont see it happening.

How did we convince them.
Pablo- Monk convinced him, the appeal of a challenge, he was on a slowboat to retirement.

Jansson- Couldn't get a game in Italy, Helander is a regular, harder to convince.

Saiz and Ali was cold hard cash, we know that, we outbid Elche, which shows how lacking money most in la Liga are. Alioski the same, it was cash.

Matt Clarke is a really good cb, better then Cooper imo, good enough to start

Wilmot i know less about.

Disagree.

Watched some La Liga 2, far less physical and tempo then League 1, diving is common, quality isn't great, League 1 is better imo, class between league 1 and Championship is smaller then Liga 2 and Championship imo.

We shall see what happens to Oztumer, but wouldn't surprise me at all if he ends up being a star of next season for a club higher then league 1.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by SG90 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:43 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:28 pm
I agree they'd be great signings, just dont see it happening.

How did we convince them.
Pablo- Monk convinced him, the appeal of a challenge, he was on a slowboat to retirement.

Jansson- Couldn't get a game in Italy, Helander is a regular, harder to convince.

Saiz and Ali was cold hard cash, we know that, we outbid Elche, which shows how lacking money most in la Liga are. Alioski the same, it was cash.

Matt Clarke is a really good cb, better then Cooper imo, good enough to start

Wilmot i know less about.

Disagree.

Watched some La Liga 2, far less physical and tempo then League 1, diving is common, quality isn't great, League 1 is better imo, class between league 1 and Championship is smaller then Liga 2 and Championship imo.

We shall see what happens to Oztumer, but wouldn't surprise me at all if he ends up being a star of next season for a club higher then league 1.
I think this summer is make or break for Radz. Show no ambition and he's lost the fans completely. We're one of a small minority of clubs who have no ffp or financial issues, we surely have to start showing more ambition.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by 1964white » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:45 pm

SG90 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:43 pm
I think this summer is make or break for Radz. Show no ambition and he's lost the fans completely. We're one of a small minority of clubs who have no ffp or financial issues, we surely have to start showing more ambition.
Bang on there :tup:

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by fred » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:09 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:04 pm
I worry from Heckingbottoms comments that promotion isnt on the agenda next season anyway, he was quoted as saying that he "sees no reason why we cant compete in the top half next season), thats not a man aiming for the stars.
Which 3 players if it was upto you would you sign realistically?
Now that`s a hard one if you refer to specific players.
At best I can give my opinion on which positions we need strengthening.

1. At least one striker able to score against 20 goals. Two would be better.
2. A strong CB with some experience. (Bartley type)
3. A left back. (Berardi seems past it, Peirce looks promising.)
4. A physical strong midfielder who can dictate a game with potential going
forward. (We badly lack creativ midfielders. Saiz hasn`t proved to be the
solution yet. Hernandez more on the wings it seems.)
5. We also miss a good winger. Alioski is an option. But Sacko, Dallas, Cibicki
Groth (lol), Hernandez or Saiz (in that role) aren`t good enough probably. That Spanish chap we had
could have proven to be a bargain. (Transfer fee was too high though for
taking the risk.)
6. And finally an experienced keeper. (But better than Lonergan etc.)

I just can`t see us getting anything near the quantity of quality required...and if Heck says the aim is the top half
of the table, well...Janssen will like to hear such, and will prevent some players from even concidering a move to Leeds.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by fred » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:18 pm

Nick Powell at Wigan, contract running down.
Erhun Otzumer (best bargain imo) out of contract at Walsall.
Ben Wilmot- Stevenage cb.
Matt Clarke at Pompey
Macauley Bonne- Leyton Orient
Jordan Willis- Coventry
Thanks for naming a few potential bargains...we`ll see if our scouting
has them on their radar.
The question would be further: if they are bargains, are they such
to a degree implying that they would improve our team?

And foremost: you say that they all are more or less on the radar of many
clubs. That is a major problem, once on a financial side, but also in regard
to why such a player should favour our ambitious Leeds. (Financial bargain or not.)
Last edited by fred on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by dezzy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:22 pm

A good winger striker and Centre back/leader and a premier leauge number two at an age where they need game time to finish career with a goal of getting back to the premier leauge. 15m striker, 5m each on winger and center back, keeper in a free, Krul, Hennessy, Vorm, Green (cough cough) all out of contract.
4 in 6 out.
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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by fred » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:26 pm

dezzy wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:22 pm
A good winger striker and Centre back/leader and a premier leauge number two at an age where they need game time to finish career with a goal of getting back to the premier leauge. 15m striker, 5m each on winger and center back, keeper in a free, Krul, Hennessy, Vorm, Green (cough cough) all out of contract.
4 in 6 out.
Maybe Wood for 15m, would make a nice 1m profit on that one too.
It seems soo ridiculous having had such a striker, only to be forced to splash the cash out again
for someone hopefully similar successfull.
No way we will splash out 25m I fear.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by andrewjohnsmith » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:32 pm

Overall I think we have a decent squad. What's needed is steel and leadership. We should take the example from the Wilko years: Strachan, Jones, Kamara. I think we only need to fill 2 or 3 first team holes, but they need to be filled by experienced leaders, not promising youngsters. Forshaw was the right kind of signing. We need a couple more of his ilk.
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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by dezzy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:58 pm

fred wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:26 pm
Maybe Wood for 15m, would make a nice 1m profit on that one too.
It seems soo ridiculous having had such a striker, only to be forced to splash the cash out again
for someone hopefully similar successfull.
No way we will splash out 25m I fear.
I don’t know, all the talk last summer was build a squad, top 6 and add the finishing touch for 2019, they failed, will they push the boat out financially to meet targets? Who knows... 25milliom isn’t that much of we sell say 5 million worth at a push, if they could fund the stadium there is surely a stash of cash somewhere!
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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by SG90 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:05 pm

dezzy wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:58 pm
I don’t know, all the talk last summer was build a squad, top 6 and add the finishing touch for 2019, they failed, will they push the boat out financially to meet targets? Who knows... 25milliom isn’t that much of we sell say 5 million worth at a push, if they could fund the stadium there is surely a stash of cash somewhere!
The thing is, if we actually showed ambition, spent a bit and kept our best players, ER would be full every game and we'd be making the money back ten times over through promotion. At some point the penny must drop at how much bigger we'd be in the PL.

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by dezzy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:18 pm

SG90 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:05 pm
The thing is, if we actually showed ambition, spent a bit and kept our best players, ER would be full every game and we'd be making the money back ten times over through promotion. At some point the penny must drop at how much bigger we'd be in the PL.
Sad. I think it’s the potential of the club that’s leading to auch tension around the place!
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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion

Post by Gandalf » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:35 pm

Delapsus Resurgam - When I fall I shall rise!

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Re: Summer Transfers and Squad Discussion (Kyle Bartley exclusive )

Post by radebe88 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:50 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:49 pm
Hi Rad.

Thanks very much :)

I understand your point.

That is a downside with our club and our fan base, we expect so much, anything less then our expectations is considered a collosal failure who needs to go at the earliest opportunity.

I understand your point, sign players with more experience who may not be as intimidated by our club and demanding fan base?

Think Crouch has signed a new deal at Stoke and Bartley has suffered a nasty injury it seems :(

Think you may be right, bit more experience with some bargains thrown in be nice.
I mean anything other than Serie F strikers with a 1 in 10 ratio would give me optimisim at this point. :lol:

Although the transfer policy hasn’t worked so far I think Radz has more than proven he is willing to pay for players. Maybe it will take a few transfer windows doing it this way to find a selection of diamonds in the rough !

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