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Cjay
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Hey Big Spender

Post by Cjay » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:49 pm

*Disclaimer, not meant as an anti Radz thread, just the facts as we were told*.

So we have 3 transfer budget streams this season.
1)All season ticket sales, this was said by Angus Kinnear.
2) Every penny of the 49ers investment.
3) Player sales.

Elephant out of the room, we wasted a huge sum of money last season, approximately £8million in transfer fees for players who have now gone for peanuts.

So this season as we understand it we have raised
£7.7million from Vieira.
Something for Wiedwald and Antonsson, lets be kind and call it an even £1mil for the pair.

So 8.7million in fees.

Season ticket sales were at 18k in June, lets say we reached 20k now.
Average price roughly £450 (may be more or less). Lets say we raised £10million in ticket sales just to keep it simple.

So £10million from tickets.

Finally, the 49ers £10million.

In total thats £27million in our pot, thats without Radz investing any, youd hope as majority shareholder he'd match the 49ers at least as i imagine they will be contributing in other areas to.

So lets say that Radz did match the 49ers

Total budget £37million.

At present we have spent.
£3million on Douglas (bargain)
£7million on Bamford (potential bargain).

We have raised roughly
£7.7million for Ronaldo Vieira.
(Est) £1mil for Felix and Antonsson (there was a fee for both apparently )

So we are £2.7million into our budget.

Round it up to £3mil to keep it simple.

Leaves us with £34million.

Not naive enough to think we havent spent some on loan fees so lets guess.

Blackman, Baker and Harrison.

In all honesty Blackman was at Sheffield United last season, he wouldn't cost much, call it £500k.

Baker was at Boro and hardly kicked a ball, call it £1mil.

Harrison the same so lets call that £500k again.

City and Chelsea arent going to be to fussed about loan fees, a few million is peanuts to them, developing there players is more important as selling them for a profit is part of there business plan.

So £2million in loan fees.

That takes us down to £32million pounds.

Then it gets far to complicated with agents fees and signing on fees and wages etc.

So lets say well we only signed 1 permanent player, Bamford.

He will be on a good wage, £35k a week, simliar to what we wanted so give Vydra?

So whats that, £2mil a year roughly.

Take that off, takes us to £30mil.

Then say knock off £5mil for other fees and what have you.

£25mil left in total.

I understand a lot of this is guess work but i like to think its fairly logical :duno:

We wont spend that.

So what should we be expecting or hoping to spend?
Given what we were promised.

I dont really understand FFP, so many clubs seem to totally ignore it for years, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby for example and we were told we were one of the few not in danger so i havent tried to take that into account.

I read somewhere we were like £30mil clear of it so yeah, with our ticket sales throughout the season and revenue from sky and such we should be able to avoid it easier then most logically.

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1964white
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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by 1964white » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:00 am

Truth is we've done good business without spending a lot

Still positions in the squad we certainly could improve on

A top class CB & another striker.

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by hector » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:32 am

We have raised roughly
£7.7million for Ronaldo Vieira.
(Est) £1mil for Felix and Antonsson (there was a fee for both apparently )
you added this fee in twice, once at the beginning of the calculations and again half way through...

:) :)
:tup: “And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.” :wink:

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by danhirons » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:05 am

We'll be bottom half of the table this season. Not strengthened the team at all from last season (with the exception of Douglas and perhaps bamford). What you forgot as well is that we will have chopped quite a bit off the wage bill by loaning out and getting rid of quite a few of the dross from last season. Been a supporter of radz so far but now he's taking the cheese. If there's no money then say it, don't come out saying we're going to spend all of this money and then not to do it.

I genuinely think because we have bielsa he believes we can have a good season even with an average squad which just isn't the case.

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by faaip » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:22 am

I'm going to assume that Douglas and Bamford won't have come here for 10 grand a week. more likely 50K for the pair per wee as a minimum. Which would be 2.6 M extra to find, Chelsea may charge for their loanees to the likes of us but I doubt we'll get much for ours from cash strapped team..We can clear the wages of RV and FW off the bill.
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by Newport white » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:37 am

Cardiff has a great season with average players under Warnock so I would say Bielsa could do the same if not better

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by whiteswan » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:50 am

Newport white wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:37 am
Cardiff has a great season with average players under Warnock
Including Bamba :shock:
Maybe Bielsa can 'do a Bamba' with Cooper :)

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by Brader » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:58 am

Viera fee was reported at 5.8 upfront and the rest add ons

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by weasel » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:59 am

Newport white wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:37 am
Cardiff has a great season with average players under Warnock so I would say Bielsa could do the same if not better
An excellent point although I am sure some will point to NW's championship experience in contrast to Bielsa's. The way I look at it we had a team last year that briefly looked very good. With a few tweaks it could have been top 6 - those tweaks were to replace the 4 players that left which were Green, Bartley, Taylor and Wood. Last season we addressed the problem of creativity from midfield (buying Samu and Alioski) but didn't adequately replace those that left. This season we have addressed those problems, apart from a new centreback, without creating new ones by selling first teamers.

I think a lot of people have been convinced that the team is awful because PH continually told us it was. Truth is it isn't but it did need the above problem areas addressing - which we have done. If Bielsa can then get a bit more out of the team than TC did, and learn from the problems TC had in regard to the team bottling it on occasions, then there is no reason why we can't have a decent season. A good manager can certainly get more out of players than a bad manager and also a good formation/tactics can make a huge difference - with Bielsa we have, in theory, a good manager.

We do need to get back to being as solid when defending set pieces as we were under Monk. There is no reason we can't as in honesty it wasn't Green coming for crosses rather that PJ was given a free role to attack the ball and Wood and Bartley also helped out with their height. Bamford is 6ft so can do Wood's defensive role and there is no reason why Cooper shouldn't be as good as Bartley in heading the ball away (albeit his heading in the opposition box is poor but defensively he doesn't need to head accurately just clear it). What it does need is organisation and people doing their job and us getting the right players in the right areas to clear the ball (and have PJ having a free role to just attack the ball).
Senor El Weasel

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by dezzy » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:01 am

:roll: Sunday cannot come quick enough.....
I realised I was dyslexic when I went to a toga party dressed as a goat..

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by Chilli D » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:14 am

None of us will ever fully know what goes into making a transfer happen in terms of signing on / agent fees etc but I think most people on here agree on two things;
1) The squad is stronger than last season but still needs a couple of quality additions to mount a serious challenge
2) There should still be money available to invest in said players
However, with our first game only three days away it's looking more and more likely that those we already have will be who we put our faith in against Stoke.
Unless of course the club has another 'Jack Harrison' moment and pulls off another surprise signing no-one was expecting.....

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by paddy parrott » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:25 am

As usual another good post Weasel and I couldn't agree more with you mate ..Well done.

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by Cjay » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:51 am

There should be a decent chunk of cash left if Radz is serious about promotion.

Tiz what i was getting at.

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faaip
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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by faaip » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:10 pm

Around 10 I'd say
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by weasel » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:06 pm

I too would expect there to be enough in the kitty for 1 more big signing. The trouble is though that we are guessing at the figures above and it is tricky because you have things like Lonerghan and Murphy severing their contracts and that could easily cost the club £1m to £2m. Likewise on some of the players we have loaned out we may be paying a big % of their wages so that could easily tot up to another couple of million. Then you take say the season ticket sales and suggest they could be used for transfers but then the only income to pay player wages over the season would be from tv revenue and tickets sold to non season ticket holders - without knowing exact figures it could be that we have 15,000 to 20,000 season ticket holders and just a maximum of 10,000 paying per match throughout the season - so that is 23 matches with 10,000 paying at say £20 per ticket (some may be concessions and you also have to figure in the admin and staff costs associated with selling tickets) - well that comes to £4.6m coming in throughout the season and that wouldn't pay all the player wages.
Senor El Weasel

Cjay
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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by Cjay » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:08 pm

weasel wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:06 pm
I too would expect there to be enough in the kitty for 1 more big signing. The trouble is though that we are guessing at the figures above and it is tricky because you have things like Lonerghan and Murphy severing their contracts and that could easily cost the club £1m to £2m. Likewise on some of the players we have loaned out we may be paying a big % of their wages so that could easily tot up to another couple of million. Then you take say the season ticket sales and suggest they could be used for transfers but then the only income to pay player wages over the season would be from tv revenue and tickets sold to non season ticket holders - without knowing exact figures it could be that we have 15,000 to 20,000 season ticket holders and just a maximum of 10,000 paying per match throughout the season - so that is 23 matches with 10,000 paying at say £20 per ticket (some may be concessions and you also have to figure in the admin and staff costs associated with selling tickets) - well that comes to £4.6m coming in throughout the season and that wouldn't pay all the player wages.
All of this could be true as you say.

Back in March we were promised an "exciting summer" and all season ticket sales would go towards "transfers and wages, plus Radz continued investment".

That was pre 49ers to.

It was made to sound like there would be significant funds available to go for this exciting summer.

As it stands we have.
2 loans who barely kicked a ball for Boro.
A goalie who was ok for Sheffield United.
A striker which was funded almost or totally by a sale.

Were this Bates or MC there would be outcry.

Combined with the Wolves rant Radz promised much and has delivered very little so far, indeed all his "relationship" with Mendes has done is sell Vieira.

But i can see where this will go.

"We signed proven Championship players"(Blackman and Bamford)

"We used our connections with big clubs to improve our squad" Chelsea and City.

We appointed a large name manager like Wolves etc etc

They will dress it up like that but looking at it without rose tinted glasses its very underwhelming as it is.

The loans are ok at best.

Bamford is decent but sell to buy.

Bielsa is as likely to fail as succeed.

Two areas we desperately needed improvement havent been addressed, centre back and centre midfield. Baker is not a like for like replacement for Vieira.

They now look like wanting to go with the 3 cbs who failed last season, Cooper, Penny and Jansson, wtf sort of logic is that.

Will be labelled negative but its realistic and true.

PR will protect them.

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by danhirons » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:21 pm

We've also massively reduced the size of the squad so the wage bill should be lower than last season...

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by Cjay » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:23 pm

danhirons wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:21 pm
We've also massively reduced the size of the squad so the wage bill should be lower than last season...
This :tup:

If we are to believe what we were told then there should be plenty of money available left.

Upwards of £10mil, closer to £20mil minimum.

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Re: Hey Big Spender

Post by faaip » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:11 pm

danhirons wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:21 pm
We've also massively reduced the size of the squad so the wage bill should be lower than last season...
Have we? Paying off players costs more in the short term than paying them and we have a large number of players on loan we're probably still paying for in the most part. Lassoga' wage was probably paid for because we couldn't have afforded and Weidwald plus Vierra won't be on anything like the wages for Douglas and Bamford...We also gave Pearce a raise and Hernandez to name 2
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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