In Bielsa We Trust?

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.
Post Reply
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5105
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by Cjay » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:48 pm

Its become a bit of a catchphrase.

No matter what happens, good or bad, this gets said.

1st things 1st, he has done an incredible job with the tools he has been given so far.
Pre season when you look at our fixtures we had the hardest start in the league, Stoke, the pre season favourites, with there "talented young coach", packed full of experienced premier league players and internationals, spending lots of money as well. Derby, beaten playoff semi finalists, experienced players like Scott Carson, David Nugent, Curtis Davies, Richard Keogh, Joe Ledley, Tom Huddlestone,Bradley Johnson, talented youngsters like Mason Mount, Harry Wilson, Tom Lawrence and the unknown quantity of Frank Lampard. Rotherham, never know how a promoted side will do, certainly cant take them lightly, and finally Swansea. Another relegated club, highly rated manager, talented flair front 3, proven Championship players and a striker along the same lines, internationals like Leroy Fer and Jefferson Montero.

All 4 of those sides could have beaten us, 3 promotion favourites with expensively assembled squads, and a newly promoted side who would have been an unknown factor.

But after those 4 games we sit top, we blew 2, Stoke and Derby away, we grinded it out vs Rotherham and in the end our quality showed, we were 2nd best all game vs Swansea, but we got a point, thats what good sides do, thats what winners do.

However, it doesnt get easier, we still have to go to Millwall, Norwich, and welcome Preston and Boro to Elland Road, as starts go you couldnt really ask for more difficult.

In Bielsa we trust
The man who masterminded this start, whose tactics have won us these points, who bravely took off an under performing Kalvin Phillips 1st half, who hooked a similarly under performing Gianni Alioski at half time. He has shown himself to be a brave coach, he doesnt care what anyone thinks, fans, players, if he sees something it gets fixed if he doesnt like it.

He is as honest as you will get, calls out mistakes to the press, he doesnt care, he says it as it is.

He has been superb, he has coached last seasons squad largely to play a totally different style in a matter of months, and they follow it to the letter, they pass out from the back, they dont hoof, they keep plugging away, and they deserve great credit for that. He has shown great loyalty to the players to, if they win they start, end of story.

SOme of the football since he arrived has been fantastic, truly to good for this league.

The Flip side of IN Bielsa we trust.


A famously singled minded and stubborn coach, Bielsa will not budge on his beliefs, this is something that has seen him fall out with fans, players and the board in the past. He is only human, he is not the messiah, he gets things wrong, this is something we are yet to see, maybe we never will, but in all truth we probably will, its only a matter of when he makes his first mistake.

We may be seeing his first mistake now.

If Paul Heckingbottom was still here and he said " we dont need another cb, i am happy to play Berardi and Cooper at cb", then there would have been outcry. Then if we then lost our only 2 recognised cbs to injury, Liam Cooper and Pontus Jansson and Paul still said " i dont want to sign a cb", there would be much gnashing of teeth.

Our lack of height has now been highlighted on a few occasions, the stats from last season for 1, we concede a lot of headers and a lot from set pieces.

"IN Bielsa we trust" is fine, but can we trust him totally blindly and go against what almost all fans have been saying for 12 months, we need a big, tall leader at the back?

That being said, if Bielsa doesnt want a cb, then we shouldn't sign one, we cant have Orta thrusting players on Bielsa, its not going to go down well.

Personally, i think not signing a quality cb, adding a bit of height to midfield and probably a bit more creativity out wide would cost us in the long run.

Just because Bielsa is who he is doesnt mean he is right about us not needing a cb and dm (if indeed we dont sign anyone), he is only human, he makes mistakes, on this occasion he would be wrong imo.

However!!!!!!!!!

At the end of the day he is the manager. :love:
He has taken a midtable team from the depths of despair under Soggybottom, to the best footballing side in the league and the top team in the league as things stand.

He has taken 7 points of 3 of the pre season favourites.

He has not shied away from making big decisions.

He has been very honest about our performances and has not tried to pull the wool over the fans eyes.

For those reasons, if he really doesn't want the signings a lot of us feel we need then thats ok.

Last season i said regardless of my feelings on Paul Heckingbottom, he must be allowed to have the squad he wants next season.

The same applies to Bielsa. :love:

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 63205
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by 1964white » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:19 pm

What more can I say apart from 'Bielsa is a miracle worker sent from God' :-D

herefordbornleedsboy
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:42 am
Location: Hereford

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by herefordbornleedsboy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:24 pm

I think Cardiff proved last season that with a top coach an average squad can get out of this league....
Warnock, although limited is very good at getting teams up

User avatar
Muppet the Cat
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 670
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 9:42 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by Muppet the Cat » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:46 pm

herefordbornleedsboy wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:24 pm
I think Cardiff proved last season that with a top coach an average squad can get out of this league....
Warnock, although limited is very good at getting teams up
I know I'm in the minority here but I like Colin :)

:moggy:

SG90
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 396
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by SG90 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:51 pm

As I said on the other thread, I think he's just trying to big up the players in the media. I can't see him being happy with having to play two RBs at CB. I reckon he's having thorough discussions behind the scenes and we'll bring in Foyth.

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6674
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by weasel » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:31 pm

I would think that, barring the conspiracy theories regarding PJ, Bielsa will be looking at the centreback pairing as being PJ and Cooper. We have seen a consistent selection policy by Bielsa (with the exception of Douglas) in not playing players, from the start, who haven't been here all summer to learn how he wants them to play. If Roofe wasn't playing so well then no doubt the same questions would be asked as to why Bamford wasn't starting. Given this we then have to consider that any defender we bring in now will be way behind in terms of getting up to speed with Bielsa's tactics and as such it may be that Berardi is a better option than another centreback - it may also be that he sees U23 centrebacks as being good enough to step up into the first team if needed and they will have been training and as such could slot in seamlessly if there were long term injuries. We have already seen Shackleton step up from nowhere.

I am happy to go with whatever Bielsa decides. He sees all the players in training and will know which ones can fit into his system, formation and tactics. He has studied the players at the club and decided which ones he can improve.
Senor El Weasel

User avatar
rab_rant
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3109
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by rab_rant » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:01 am

The old man from Elland Road- El Loco
Scottish Steel and Irish Fire that's the weapon I desire.

User avatar
Gandalf
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 7275
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:51 am

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by Gandalf » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:13 am

Admit it Cjay, when it comes to trusting Bielsa with regard to the need for another Central Defender, then you just don't. Personally, I will stick with the guy who has more professional football experience than myself, despite watching it for more than 55 years. Constantly having to answer the question "Surely we need CD cover", with "No, I am happy with the tools that I have already got", must be starting to get on his nerves, and this is one man we don't want to start pissing off.
Delapsus Resurgam - When I fall I shall rise!

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 24090
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by faaip » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:47 am

I'm not aware of any conspiracy theories regarding PJ, just me saying something smells. No reason he couldn't have started the season, I think MB just prefers Coop and Beradi right now. I've always been a Beradi fan and Coop has always been a decent centre back.
"My house is gone and now it's an Ultimart, You can never go home again Oatman, but I guess you can shop there

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6674
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by weasel » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:23 am

faaip wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:47 am
I'm not aware of any conspiracy theories regarding PJ, just me saying something smells. No reason he couldn't have started the season, I think MB just prefers Coop and Beradi right now. I've always been a Beradi fan and Coop has always been a decent centre back.
The trouble though was that PJ, due to the world cup and even though he only played 1 game he would have been training hard so that he was at peak condition if needed and may have needed a rest, returned to Leeds a few weeks later than the rest of the squad. Even if he was at full fitness he would have missed out on a few weeks of learning how Bielsa wants each player to play - one cog broken in the way we play and potentially the machine falls apart. A centre back under Bielsa isn't like a centreback at most clubs where the job description is to simply defend, same as how a keeper doesn't just need to save shots now.
Senor El Weasel

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5105
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by Cjay » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:27 am

Gandalf wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:13 am
Admit it Cjay, when it comes to trusting Bielsa with regard to the need for another Central Defender, then you just don't. Personally, I will stick with the guy who has more professional football experience than myself, despite watching it for more than 55 years. Constantly having to answer the question "Surely we need CD cover", with "No, I am happy with the tools that I have already got", must be starting to get on his nerves, and this is one man we don't want to start pissing off.
100% no i dont.

If it is his decision (which it should be) then i think he is wrong,,, same as i would were it Hecky or any other Leeds manager. Just because he is who he is doesn't make him right, most fans have been saying we need a quality cb since Bartley left, Bielsa being Bielsa doesn't make that different imo.

But, as the manager he should have the squad he wants regardless of what i or anyone else thinks.

User avatar
Gandalf
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 7275
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:51 am

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by Gandalf » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:49 am

Cjay wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:27 am
100% no i dont.

If it is his decision (which it should be) then i think he is wrong,,, same as i would were it Hecky or any other Leeds manager. Just because he is who he is doesn't make him right, most fans have been saying we need a quality cb since Bartley left, Bielsa being Bielsa doesn't make that different imo.

But, as the manager he should have the squad he wants regardless of what i or anyone else thinks.
I might have stated the same before the season. However "Bielsa being Bielsa doesn't make that different" is so wrong having seen Bielsa's style in action. I wouldn't have thought that Berardi could play as a centre back - I was wrong. I wouldn't have thought that he could improve Cooper - I was wrong again. For once, I am going to stop sniping from the sidelines, and just enjoy the journey, and see where he takes us. This is not TC or Heck we are talking about here, this is a man who will stand by his principles, even in defeat (which, I might add, we have still yet to experience.)
Delapsus Resurgam - When I fall I shall rise!

User avatar
Dalton
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:44 pm
Location: Location with Phil and Kirstie

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by Dalton » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:18 am

A good thread chaps.....i thought the Swansea game in particular with all of the changes forced and going behind twice was a great test of character. We as fans will have been used to the long ball coming in to try and get something out of the game(and failing) but sticking to the mangers principles and playing football got the reward. Who didnt think Hernandez's goal was worth a massive cheer as it was fast flowing football at its best.
My my my, such a lot of guns around town and so few brains

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5105
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by Cjay » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:41 am

Gandalf wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:49 am
I might have stated the same before the season. However "Bielsa being Bielsa doesn't make that different" is so wrong having seen Bielsa's style in action. I wouldn't have thought that Berardi could play as a centre back - I was wrong. I wouldn't have thought that he could improve Cooper - I was wrong again. For once, I am going to stop sniping from the sidelines, and just enjoy the journey, and see where he takes us. This is not TC or Heck we are talking about here, this is a man who will stand by his principles, even in defeat (which, I might add, we have still yet to experience.)
I hope to be wrong, really do, and if i am then good.

But the concerns about our cb options and lack of height are a worry.

Will enjoy the good football though and hope its a minor inconvenience throughout the season rather then a deciding factor.

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 24090
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: In Bielsa We Trust?

Post by faaip » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:52 am

Dalton wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:18 am
A good thread chaps.....i thought the Swansea game in particular with all of the changes forced and going behind twice was a great test of character. We as fans will have been used to the long ball coming in to try and get something out of the game(and failing) but sticking to the mangers principles and playing football got the reward. Who didnt think Hernandez's goal was worth a massive cheer as it was fast flowing football at its best.
Wonderful goal but he picked the pocket of the defender who should have really done better. Absolutely nothing Swansea could have done for the first goal which gave us belief
"My house is gone and now it's an Ultimart, You can never go home again Oatman, but I guess you can shop there

Post Reply