A Debt Of Gratitude owed?

[danhirons]

A debt of gratitude is probably owed to someone who took a lot of flack last year... Victor Orta.

He was the one that purchased the players to fit this style of football. He also appointed Carlos Corberan who is key to implementing the style of football played at U23 level and below and is now a key part of Bielsas management group.

I believe Thomas Christiansen was appointed to implement this style of football but he was the budget version and ultimately not good enough when the going got tough. Heck was a reactionary appointment and we should never have appointed a coach on such a poor loosing streak.

100 per cent disagree.

He bought so much rubbish last season. Most of the core first team is still what was here before he arrived. He's spent so much money he was bound to get one or two right.

Douglas and bamford are hardly great picks - they are established championship players. Then there's Klich, alioski and saiz left from all the dross he's signed.

We've got no money left to spend because he's wasted it all.

Also let's stop calling bielsa God. We did basically this well under TC and it all crumbled quickly, it happens so often. We start losing a few games and the players will soon hate training so much.

[Cjay]

Too early to say if they are failures, some players especially from foreign climbs take a while

Was more on about O'Kane, Anita and Ekuban who Bielsa wants to shift.

More Anita and O'Kane who we are struggling to shift because they are on big money and long deals.

Bowyer wants O'Kane, he wants to stay.

[Cjay]

100 per cent disagree.

He bought so much rubbish last season. Most of the core first team is still what was here before he arrived. He's spent so much money he was bound to get one or two right.

Douglas and bamford are hardly great picks - they are established championship players. Then there's Klich, alioski and saiz left from all the dross he's signed.

We've got no money left to spend because he's wasted it all.

Also let's stop calling bielsa God. We did basically this well under TC and it all crumbled quickly, it happens so often. We start losing a few games and the players will soon hate training so much.

Millwall and Boro.

Win those then we shall see, those styles and teams beat us last season.

Not popular to mention.

Bielsa burnout isnt a myth its very real and is a common theme, long way to go before we can get to excited.

Enjoy the football though

[YorkshireSquare]

He bought so much rubbish last season. Most of the core first team is still what was here before he arrived. He's spent so much money he was bound to get one or two right.

Agree to an extent but I think that is the approach. Spend relatively little on players who are undiscovered or underrated and some of them will turn into diamonds. Some of them will fail but the successes pay for the failures.

Klich was £1.5m, Saiz £3m and Alioski £3m all first team regulars currently and probably all worth a lot more now what we paid for them. The two big money signings last season were Pontus Jansson and Adam Forshaw who if they were fit would also probably be first team regulars.

We also signed a lot of very young players who will be prospects for the future.

[YorkshireSquare]

Also let's stop calling bielsa God. We did basically this well under TC and it all crumbled quickly, it happens so often. We start losing a few games and the players will soon hate training so much.

Absolutely, it's too early to start thinking we are going to win the league. But the football we are playing is exciting and we are winning so lets enjoy it.

[The Subhuman]

Bieslas XI would rout TC early season XI even though they're the same players in the main. The two starts look similar on paper ..worlds apart on the pitch

[weasel]

No point us re-hashing the TC v PH debate again - we saw last season that people had their views and there was little middleground. Perhaps the only good to come out of it was that we got back to the initial style quicker which is more pleasing on the eye. The PH approach may have worked in the same way that Neil Warnock gets average teams promoted and the TC approach was more similar and as all the players were still available it probably gave Bielsa a little bit of a head start as he was also able to see videos of the players trying to play a similar style so was able to assess them quicker.

The Bolton manager perhaps summed up the situation best when he said he had seen lots of teams playing the Bielsa way and knew what to expect. There are many Bielsa clones such as Pep Guardiola, Pochinetto and of course TC. There are no doubt countless others that we haven't heard about. However just copying a way of playing doesn't mean you will be able to implement it successfully, subtle differences could yield vastly different results. I do feel the lack of a left back hampered TC and Tuesday night showed us how easy it is for the whole way of playing to fall apart with just a little bit of change - I am not saying having Douglas playing for us last season would have definitely made us promotion contenders but it would certainly have helped.

[lufc1304]

Absolutely.

He shifted to plan B when he probably should have stuck with plan A, inexperience maybe?

TC wasnt right in the end, probably deserved the sack (although his replacement was totally wrong).

But the style you mentioned was my point.

Its a lot easier to adapt to a style if you have had experience of it beforehand.

TC gave them that, for that he deserves some credit imho.

Without being a doomsday pusher we havent yet played a Millwall, Cardiff (Boro are probably the closest to them this season style wise ).

We may very well lose our next 2, if so then what? Do we blame Bielsa or do we blame recruitment?

Next 2 games will tell us a lot.

Why do we need to blame anyone, Cjay? This is the championship, losing two on the bounce happens to pretty much every team in this league. This is what's wrong with most fans these days, there always has to be a culprit. 11 v 11, anything can happen, that's football. Not a pop, or teaching you to suck eggs, just a bit surprised by this, you're usually more measured than that

[Cjay]

Why do we need to blame anyone, Cjay? This is the championship, losing two on the bounce happens to pretty much every team in this league. This is what's wrong with most fans these days, there always has to be a culprit. 11 v 11, anything can happen, that's football. Not a pop, or teaching you to suck eggs, just a bit surprised by this, you're usually more measured than that

Not about losing, losing as you say happens.

But i think if we can take points of those 2 then that will show real progress.

Pretty football is fine, but i want to see how we cope when teams are physically superior, bigger, taller, stronger.

To often bullied last season.

Concerned that our recruitment will be found out tbh by those 2.

[1964white]

Also let's stop calling bielsa God. We did basically this well under TC and it all crumbled quickly, it happens so often.

Why not ?

Bielsa is different class to Christainsen

You only have to listen to top football people in the game who rate Bielsa very highly

Liverpool fans even knew we'd employed a top coach on the day he joined Leeds back in mid-June, just read their comments, they are still talking about us.....4 pages on a scouser site about Bielsa/Leeds

https://forums.liverpoolfc.com/threads/ ... r-at-Leeds

[lufc1304]

Not about losing, losing as you say happens.

But i think if we can take points of those 2 then that will show real progress.

Pretty football is fine, but i want to see how we cope when teams are physically superior, bigger, taller, stronger.

To often bullied last season.

Concerned that our recruitment will be found out tbh by those 2.

I get where you're coming from and I'd be lying if I suggested I wasn't concerned by our percieved lack of depth. But, as you have said yourself (we all have), there is but one Bielsa way. We're not changing style or Plan for Boro or milscum, we will play the same way and see where it takes us. Bigger and stronger is one thing, but if you're chasing shadows and don't have the ball, those aren't positives. Maybe we'll get bullied, maybe we won't, but we'll do the same things again in the next match and the one after that. This squad will win more than it loses, I'm pretty confident about that, whether it has the depth to do so enough to be in the mix remains to be seen. But MB is here, he's ours, and we buy into what he's doing 100% knowing there'll be bumps along the way. Would I like more options at the back and in midfield? Yes, ideally I would, but scrappers don't seem to be part of the blueprint. We may well get our arses handed to us a few times over this season, but for the sheer joyous nature of the football we'll play the rest of the time, i'll live with that. And won't point a finger

[1964white]

I get where you're coming from and I'd be lying if I suggested I wasn't concerned by our percieved lack of depth. But, as you have said yourself (we all have), there is but one Bielsa way. We're not changing style or Plan for Boro or milscum, we will play the same way and see where it takes us. Bigger and stronger is one thing, but if you're chasing shadows and don't have the ball, those aren't positives. Maybe we'll get bullied, maybe we won't, but we'll do the same things again in the next match and the one after that. This squad will win more than it loses, I'm pretty confident about that, whether it has the depth to do so enough to be in the mix remains to be seen. But MB is here, he's ours, and we buy into what he's doing 100% knowing there'll be bumps along the way. Would I like more options at the back and in midfield? Yes, ideally I would, but scrappers don't seem to be part of the blueprint. We may well get our arses handed to us a few times over this season, but for the sheer joyous nature of the football we'll play the rest of the time, i'll live with that. And won't point a finger

I'm just enjoying & savouring every moment

[1964white]

Pretty football is fine, but i want to see how we cope when teams are physically superior, bigger, taller, stronger.
To often bullied last season.

We have a tall keeper who is prepared to come off his line & catch or punch crosses

Ayling & Pontus are back in our defence with Cooper to return

Berardi has a terrific leap even though he is 5'10", as has Phillips

First time in a long time we've had a player in our midfield who is a six-footer in Klich

We haven't endured a bullying yet.....Millwall could be the real test

[lufc1304]

I'm just enjoying & savouring every moment

For quite possibly the first time since I joined this forum, Leon, I'm jealous of you and all the other folk who get to see THIS team week in, week out. Have always said if I lived in god's own county, I'd be a season ticket holder. This season, I'd be home and away. And probably divorced! We are, in the main, a joy to watch, football fans of whatever stripe are seeing that. I do think we'll get battered a few times, but also feel we'll bounce back. Unlike last season where a general malaise set in, and we simply went through the motions. MB is so driven, exacting and sure that his way is right that he will dismantle every bad performance and demand a reaction. TC nor that clown from Barnsley had the wherewithall to do that, he will. We might run out of legs, his teams do, but if this is a a two season gig, I'll take it.

[1964white]

For quite possibly the first time since I joined this forum, Leon, I'm jealous of you and all the other folk who get to see THIS team week in, week out. Have always said if I lived in god's own county, I'd be a season ticket holder. This season, I'd be home and away. And probably divorced! We are, in the main, a joy to watch, football fans of whatever stripe are seeing that. I do think we'll get battered a few times, but also feel we'll bounce back. Unlike last season where a general malaise set in, and we simply went through the motions. MB is so driven, exacting and sure that his way is right that he will dismantle every bad performance and demand a reaction. TC nor that clown from Barnsley had the wherewithall to do that, he will. We might run out of legs, his teams do, but if this is a a two season gig, I'll take it.

After enduring the last fifteen years of dirge what I'm experiencing now is sheer joy Nick. I keep pinching myself to see if it's not just a wonderful dream. I'm walking around on a high for much of each week longing in anticipation for the next game.
I'd recommend to every Leeds fan to make an effort & get yourself to a Leeds game if they are playing in your area as Norfolk White did yesterday, you can't beat live football & the atmosphere that goes with it especially with the football you are likely to watch now, if you can bag a ticket in the Leeds end even better !

You're right Nick we will lose games however I'm pretty sure Bielsa won't allow his players to sit on their laurels & I would expect us to bounce back after a defeat

[MightyWhites]

Everyone seems to be going on about Millwall, and after last season I can see why. Millwall IMO are not all that, and Rotherham beat them on Sunday, so we have nothing to fear from them. Playing the Boro on Friday who have a similar style of play the Milwall (abeilt with better players) is the real test. A positive result against them and we can start to dream.

[gessa]

with Cooper to return

Just had to recheck this was your post

[gessa]

Everyone seems to be going on about Millwall, and after last season I can see why. Millwall IMO are not all that, and Rotherham beat them on Sunday, so we have nothing to fear from them. Playing the Boro on Friday who have a similar style of play the Milwall (abeilt with better players) is the real test. A positive result against them and we can start to dream.

Agreed Boro will be a much bigger test than Millwall.

[Norm]

1964white wrote:

After enduring the last fifteen years of dirge what I'm experiencing now is sheer joy Nick. I keep pinching myself to see if it's not just a wonderful dream. I'm walking around on a high for much of each week longing in anticipation for the next game.
I'd recommend to every Leeds fan to make an effort & get yourself to a Leeds game if they are playing in your area as Norfolk White did yesterday, you can't beat live football & the atmosphere that goes with it especially with the football you are likely to watch now, if you can bag a ticket in the Leeds end even better !

You're right Nick we will lose games however I'm pretty sure Bielsa won't allow his players to sit on their laurels & I would expect us to bounce back after a defeat

I wish I was 4,000 miles East of where I am Leon - I would definitely be a ST holder. I envy you your frequent view of a team which seemed a flight of fancy until MB actually got things working his way.

[1964white]

I wish I was 4,000 miles East of where I am Leon - I would definitely be a ST holder. I envy you your frequent view of a team which seemed a flight of fancy until MB actually got things working his way.

It was certainly not as enjoyable watching Leeds prior to Bielsa's arrival at Leeds

I often approached games with negative thoughts thinking we would lose & the inevitable would happen. We'd score a goal & I wondered how long we'd hold onto a lead. Teams would attack & dominate us & I'd be stood there thinking it's only a matter of time before we go a goal down as was often the case, then we'd huff & puff a bit before I hopes were finally dashed & killed off by the opposition.

Under Bielsa shrewd management it is a totally different mindset

I expect us to win, score goals every time we attack, defend efficiently & come home with the three points

How things can change eh Norm

It has been a long wait though!