Should We Be Worried?

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Cjay
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Should We Be Worried?

Post by Cjay » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:49 pm

Without wanting to be hysterical or "negative " should we be really concerned?

I thought Norwich were well worth there win on the day but I'm not so sure they are the better side overall.

We beat them 3-0 to after all, nobody can legislate for Jansson losing the ball and giving away a stupid free kick, or the deflection that despite what Sky say did make a difference. No coach can plan for Forshaw giving the ball away and the deflection off Jansson (and it may have got a nick of Ayling to not sure) but it landed perfectly for Pukki. And nobody can plan for the left back being in the dm position and losing the ball.

Norwich played really well but against the top 7 they havent done to well, 10 points from 10 games against the current top 7, we have 16 points in 8 games.

However, our form is very concerning imo, despite all the above we did deserve to loss vs Norwich.

Same as Stoke, same as Forest.

In fact aside from Derby its been a while since we looked convincing. The comeback wins vs Blackburn and Villa, great fun but hardly convincing.

Scraping by QPR thanks to a pen, needing Bamford to come off the bench to beat lowly Bolton 1-0, narrow 1-0s vs Reading, a goalkeeping error to beat Blades, good against Bristol City but only after they went down to 10.

Not trying to be negative but thats how i see it, its been a while since we looked well, like Norwich yesterday, slick, organised, confident, threatening.

We used to look surprisingly solid in defence, that seems to have disappeared, in fact we have conceded 50% of our goals in our last 10 games.

And during that time we have scored . . . Exactly the same, 17 goals scored and conceded in the last 10 games.

When those numbers get that close then you know you are struggling, and MB is aware of this, he said so himself.

But most indicative of our issues is this, anyway you dress it up.

We have lost 7 this season in the league, 4 of those have been in the last 6 games.

Thats not a blip, thats more then a blip.

Bielsa is worried, hasnt been mentioned much but Bamford wasnt meant to play yesterday remember ?

He was meant to be in Birmingham with the u23s, Rob Price said just last week that Bamford wouldn't be rushed back in.

So Bielsa fast tracked him in, never ever does that, he even made Philips play an u23 game after he was suspended.

That shows concern imo, if Bielsa is worried enough to do something he never usually does that shows that we should be concerned, he is.

So should we be worried? Without going OTT.

If not why not? We have lost 57% of our games in just 20% of our games.

If we should be then how can we turn it around? What can Bielsa do? Window is shut so cant buy anyone, u23s?

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by 60sUnited » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:28 pm

I think its fairly obvious that we should be worried, considering our recent performances, Derby aside. Our lack of ability to score, now added to our current defensive frailtys gives me great concern, but if I temper that with the fact I never thought we would be where we are with this squad, I still can feel slightly positive that we can scrape a play off place. Its just the fact that we have all been given hope with our exalted league position and its hard to take that it may all come crashing down......but who knows, a win away at Boro (A very tough call) and we will all be up for it again....!!

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by Haighy » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:02 pm

Yes I'm worried.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by weasel » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:25 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:49 pm
Without wanting to be hysterical or "negative " should we be really concerned?

Yes and No. Start with the No - The performances and stats especially in relation to possession and our shots and opponents shots suggest our performances have been similar all season so it isn't a case of us playing poorly. And the Yes is because we are continuing to make mistakes and seem to be getting worse at converting our chances. At present I am not worried but definitely concerned but am still confident especially given the bodies we have coming back so we can get back to a more settled defence (and KP as DM) and we have more goal threat.

I thought Norwich were well worth there win on the day but I'm not so sure they are the better side overall.

We beat them 3-0 to after all, nobody can legislate for Jansson losing the ball and giving away a stupid free kick, or the deflection that despite what Sky say did make a difference. No coach can plan for Forshaw giving the ball away and the deflection off Jansson (and it may have got a nick of Ayling to not sure) but it landed perfectly for Pukki. And nobody can plan for the left back being in the dm position and losing the ball.

Norwich played really well but against the top 7 they havent done to well, 10 points from 10 games against the current top 7, we have 16 points in 8 games.

However, our form is very concerning imo, despite all the above we did deserve to loss vs Norwich.

Yes Norwich deserved to win but like you say the breaks all went to them which not only made a huge difference score wise but enabled them to play to their strengths (counter attacking).

Same as Stoke, same as Forest.

In fact aside from Derby its been a while since we looked convincing. The comeback wins vs Blackburn and Villa, great fun but hardly convincing.

Scraping by QPR thanks to a pen, needing Bamford to come off the bench to beat lowly Bolton 1-0, narrow 1-0s vs Reading, a goalkeeping error to beat Blades, good against Bristol City but only after they went down to 10.

Not trying to be negative but thats how i see it, its been a while since we looked well, like Norwich yesterday, slick, organised, confident, threatening.

Norwich looked good yesterday, circumstances worked for them but equally we were miles better against Derby as Derby never looked like scoring whereas even despite Norwich bossing things we created 20+ chances to score against them

We used to look surprisingly solid in defence, that seems to have disappeared, in fact we have conceded 50% of our goals in our last 10 games.

And during that time we have scored . . . Exactly the same, 17 goals scored and conceded in the last 10 games.

When those numbers get that close then you know you are struggling, and MB is aware of this, he said so himself.

But most indicative of our issues is this, anyway you dress it up.

Indeed it is. No 2 ways about it and even when we were beating Villa and Blackburn the fact we conceded 2 per game had me worried, our bad play started before our bad run did.

We have lost 7 this season in the league, 4 of those have been in the last 6 games.

Thats not a blip, thats more then a blip.

Bielsa is worried, hasnt been mentioned much but Bamford wasnt meant to play yesterday remember ?

He was meant to be in Birmingham with the u23s, Rob Price said just last week that Bamford wouldn't be rushed back in.

So Bielsa fast tracked him in, never ever does that, he even made Philips play an u23 game after he was suspended.

That shows concern imo, if Bielsa is worried enough to do something he never usually does that shows that we should be concerned, he is.

KP played an U23 match presumably to keep his match fitness sharp as otherwise he would have been going 2 or 3 weeks without a match. Likely Bamford would have said he felt ready to play first team football and Bielsa possibly intended just to have him as an unused sub.


So should we be worried? Without going OTT.

If not why not? We have lost 57% of our games in just 20% of our games.

If we should be then how can we turn it around? What can Bielsa do? Window is shut so cant buy anyone, u23s?

If the performances were bad (forget the Norwich result and focus on performances) and we were being outplayed with the opposition say having twice as many shots as us then I would be worried. Concerned yes, worried no.
We all know how the answer to how we can turn it around (cut out mistakes and convert more of our chances). It really is up to the players. MB cannot legislate for players making errors all he can do is to drop players who continually make mistakes. Similarly all MB can do is get us playing in a way which sees us create chances, he has done that. He then needs the players to take those chances and again all he can do is drop players who don't take chances often enough. The answers lie within the squad, the squad got us to the top of the league and whilst we have lost Saiz he didn't contribute to scoring goals this season, Baker didn't score or offer anything so it is the squad we have that got us to the top of the league. We hopefully have Bamford back now for the rest of the season and hopefully Baker too, forget the lack of signings because these two can be like new signings.
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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by joelufc20 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:34 pm

No I think he will sort it tbh. Bamford being back will offer another outlet especially crosses in the box. Team does need a tweak with some players resting for a couple of games, ayling and klich being 2 of them.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by Chilli D » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:35 pm

Yes especially as Boro went to West Brom and won yesterday.
So they'll be buzzing. The worst possible time to play them this season probably.
Although the do have a cup replay at Newport midweek. Interesting to see how many changes they make.
We're still second and all the challengers have to play each other so points will be dropped by those around us.
Sheff Utd and West Brom both have to come to ER so we're still masters of our own destiny in some respect.
It's time to hold our nerve and if we can get a point at Boro I will consider it a decent result.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by BobHirst » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:15 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:49 pm
Without wanting to be hysterical or "negative " should we be really concerned?

I thought Norwich were well worth there win on the day but I'm not so sure they are the better side overall.

We beat them 3-0 to after all, nobody can legislate for Jansson losing the ball and giving away a stupid free kick, or the deflection that despite what Sky say did make a difference. No coach can plan for Forshaw giving the ball away and the deflection off Jansson (and it may have got a nick of Ayling to not sure) but it landed perfectly for Pukki. And nobody can plan for the left back being in the dm position and losing the ball.

Norwich played really well but against the top 7 they havent done to well, 10 points from 10 games against the current top 7, we have 16 points in 8 games.

However, our form is very concerning imo, despite all the above we did deserve to loss vs Norwich.

Same as Stoke, same as Forest.

In fact aside from Derby its been a while since we looked convincing. The comeback wins vs Blackburn and Villa, great fun but hardly convincing.

Scraping by QPR thanks to a pen, needing Bamford to come off the bench to beat lowly Bolton 1-0, narrow 1-0s vs Reading, a goalkeeping error to beat Blades, good against Bristol City but only after they went down to 10.

Not trying to be negative but thats how i see it, its been a while since we looked well, like Norwich yesterday, slick, organised, confident, threatening.

We used to look surprisingly solid in defence, that seems to have disappeared, in fact we have conceded 50% of our goals in our last 10 games.

And during that time we have scored . . . Exactly the same, 17 goals scored and conceded in the last 10 games.

When those numbers get that close then you know you are struggling, and MB is aware of this, he said so himself.

But most indicative of our issues is this, anyway you dress it up.

We have lost 7 this season in the league, 4 of those have been in the last 6 games.

Thats not a blip, thats more then a blip.

Bielsa is worried, hasnt been mentioned much but Bamford wasnt meant to play yesterday remember ?

He was meant to be in Birmingham with the u23s, Rob Price said just last week that Bamford wouldn't be rushed back in.

So Bielsa fast tracked him in, never ever does that, he even made Philips play an u23 game after he was suspended.

That shows concern imo, if Bielsa is worried enough to do something he never usually does that shows that we should be concerned, he is.

So should we be worried? Without going OTT.

If not why not? We have lost 57% of our games in just 20% of our games.

If we should be then how can we turn it around? What can Bielsa do? Window is shut so cant buy anyone, u23s?
I agree with everything you say here.
Our form has not been very good for quite some time now (excluding Derby). We are still at the top of the league but that doesn't alter the fact that we have been struggling a bit recently and MB needs to make some changes. Ayling and Douglas are not doing the job right now. We do have some players becoming available soon, so lets hope they return and MB can find their best positions. Regarding our "possession" statistics, I think it gives a misleading perception of what is really happening. I would be very interested to know what the stats are if you take away all the side to side passing along the back line.
Anyway I am very concerned. I'm not being negative but I am being realistic (and also hopeful). I hope MB makes a couple of tweaks and keeps us in the top 2 otherwise I feel we may slip into the play-off positions and not be playing well enough to progress through the playoffs.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:42 pm

A tad concern as we don't have too many options to change things around too much

Bamford (if fit) & Phillips have to start v Boro'

Where we go with the rest of team god only knows. I feel we have to go back to basics but I don't think we have the resources available.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:45 pm

Haighy wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:02 pm
Yes I'm worried.
You're always worried Haighy :lol: now I'm becoming a nervous wreck :(

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by gessa » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:53 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:42 pm
A tad concern as we don't have too many options to change things around too much

Bamford (if fit) & Phillips have to start v Boro'

Where we go with the rest of team god only knows. I feel we have to go back to basics but I don't think we have the resources available.

Bamford is a conundrum, does he start and come off, or does he come on for the last 30, as I don't think he's ready for a full 90.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:59 pm

gessa wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:53 pm
Bamford is a conundrum, does he start and come off, or does he come on for the last 30, as I don't think he's ready for a full 90.
Would love Bamford to come on at Boro' & score the winner on his old stomping ground :-D

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by Cjay » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:23 pm

Dont understand why its happened, the Norwich performance has been coming.

As good as Norwich were we have been better against the better sides, against the top 7 by a distance and against the top half by a bit only but still better.

Norwich 25 points from 17 games 1.47ppg
Us 23 points from 15 games 1.53ppg.

Its not much but its still better.

Quite like Norwich now after what that idiot on Talksport said about us and them, wouldn't mind if they went up.

But dont understand what went wrong for us yesterday.

Norwich are good, against the better sides we are better, have been all season.


Youd never know that if you watched yesterday :(

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by weasel » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:35 am

Cjay wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:23 pm
But dont understand what went wrong for us yesterday.
We conceded a soft goal and then didn't take our chances until it was too late to matter.
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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by 1964white » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:11 am

Cjay wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:23 pm
But dont understand what went wrong for us yesterday.
When pressed we're not comfortable on the ball, we try play like Man City but we commit too many errors as we lack their quality when on the ball

Need several chances to score goals

Poor team selection

Poor substitutions

Norwich had all the luck, I do think you create you're own luck though!

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by weasel » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:24 am

1964white wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:11 am
Norwich had all the luck, I do think you create you're own luck though!
You do but over along period. In any match luck going against you can be the biggest single factor, likewise over a short period of matches. Luck or making mistakes (and being punished for them) is the biggest factor at the moment but carry on playing like we are and eliminate the mistakes and we are okay.

Norwich's goals were not down to them pressing us well, the first a deflection and the second was due to Forshaw losing a ball that he didn't have under control nut it was his choice to try to lazily drag the ball rather than get it under control, he wasn't under pressure as the Norwich player was on the floor. He gift ed the ball away rather than being pressed.
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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by BGwhite » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:53 am

64 white is absolutely right . When pressed we look totally out of control , the first touch is average so we're instantly under a lot of pressure. Man city's first touch is generally excellent so it gives them that extra second or 2 to play the next pass so everything is under control. This for me is the difference but overall the play from back to front is far too slow giving the opposition plenty of time to get there shape. Quicken that up with better ball control and I can't see a problem. I think of the Strachan, McAllister, Speed, Wallace days when they didn't mess about and just flew at the opposition , no one could handle it. Luck plays it's part and during the first half period of intense pressure on them if we'd have scored it would have been much a different game I'm sure. The ball just didn't run for Leeds.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by BGwhite » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:54 am

64 white is absolutely right . When pressed we look totally out of control , the first touch is average so we're instantly under a lot of pressure. Man city's first touch is generally excellent so it gives them that extra second or 2 to play the next pass so everything is under control. This for me is the difference but overall the play from back to front is far too slow giving the opposition plenty of time to get there shape. Quicken that up with better ball control and I can't see a problem. I think of the Strachan, McAllister, Speed, Wallace days when they didn't mess about and just flew at the opposition , no one could handle it. Luck plays it's part and during the first half period of intense pressure on them if we'd have scored it would have been much a different game I'm sure. The ball just didn't run for Leeds.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by Cjay » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:51 pm

BGwhite wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:53 am
64 white is absolutely right . When pressed we look totally out of control , the first touch is average so we're instantly under a lot of pressure. Man city's first touch is generally excellent so it gives them that extra second or 2 to play the next pass so everything is under control. This for me is the difference but overall the play from back to front is far too slow giving the opposition plenty of time to get there shape. Quicken that up with better ball control and I can't see a problem. I think of the Strachan, McAllister, Speed, Wallace days when they didn't mess about and just flew at the opposition , no one could handle it. Luck plays it's part and during the first half period of intense pressure on them if we'd have scored it would have been much a different game I'm sure. The ball just didn't run for Leeds.

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Agree with this :tup:

Our forward play is far to slow now, to much passing in non threatening areas allowing teams to get there shape.

When we do speed it up we look good but its to slow to often, to predictable.

Slow passes slow passes, pass forward then back then look for the eye of the needle pass.

This is something top sides can do, De Bruyne at City can do that, Iniesta in his pomp, we havent that level of player.

That is the issue imo, we are playing a top level style with lesser players, take nothing away from them but that is always going tl show unfortunately.

It has for Bielsa all his club career, Bilbao were a good footballing side, but they lacked the individual class the best had.

Marseille the same.

We need to mix it up or move it quicker, slow and ploddy wont work vs Boro.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by Cjay » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:54 pm

Slightly worrying stat ive read regarding "Bielsa burnout".

As much as we would like it to be a myth blown out of all proportion it is true in the case of MBs last 3 full club seasons.

Win percentages

Bilbao pre February-33% and 67%.

After- 29% and 47%.

Marseille- 65%
After-40%.

There were mitigating circumstances perhaps, long seasons, small squad.

But come May/June should we have fallen away will any of us be going "yeah but mitigating circumstances".

Its a concern.

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Re: Should We Be Worried?

Post by weasel » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:25 pm

Somebody give Cjay a hug and tell him it's gonna be okay

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