How can we compete?

[Cjay]

While it would make sense for him to cash in I just don't see it happening. Too many things point to the long term, most notable the discussions to buy land and the huge investment in the youth side of things. If the plan was to flip it then simply cut the youth funding, certainly don't buy young players, and spend that money on the first team (or keep it in your pocket). The youth side of things is such a long term thing, okay some lads have come through to the first team but they were already at the club and obviously nearer being ready.

It all points to long term putting the club on a solid footing and being able to compete without needing to spend the huge money that City and others have spent on their first team squad. I definitely see him relinquishing some of his stock but not selling up.

But again that could just be a way of making the club more attractive.

I worry for Radz in the Prem tbh, he pointed out how he wanted to follow the Brighton model i think it was, a club that are where they are solely because a billionaire owner has footed the bill, there not self sustaining, far from it.

I dont think Radz sees himself as a long term owner, id be surprised if he was here more then another year or two.

He doesnt want a loss making club, if we get promoted there is every chance we will get relegated again and he is back to square 1, all be it with parachute payments.

I read yesterday Amanda Stevely and her group were still looking at club to buy, i wonder if we are one and they are waiting to see how this season pans out, they wanted a Relegation clause in the Toon deal, perhaps they are waiting to see if we get up, if so we would probably cost less then Newcastle with as much potential.

[weasel]

But again that could just be a way of making the club more attractive.

It makes it slightly more attractive but a championship club with a good youth set-up is far less attractive than a premiership club without one. Huddersfield got promoted and basically got rid of their youth set-up. If he was in it to solely make a quick buck then the sensible thing would be to invest as little as possible in the youth side of things and spend the money saved on a couple more first team signings. Would TC, PH or most managers have been dipping into our youth set-up this season or would they have been demanding more first team signings? If MB hadn't been in charge then our youth set-up would have largely been redundant no matter how much was being invested in it. Yet the club invested in the youth set-up almost as a separate entity to the first team with no real likelihood of the investment having any short term benefit.

I worry for Radz in the Prem tbh, he pointed out how he wanted to follow the Brighton model i think it was, a club that are where they are solely because a billionaire owner has footed the bill, there not self sustaining, far from it.

They weren't a self sustaining championship side but can certainly be a self sustaining premiership club. They took a big gamble to get out of the championship and it worked. Leeds as such can use Brighton's model, once they get into the premiership, and have the additional benefit of having much higher potential for bigger crowds and an already established global fanbase.

I dont think Radz sees himself as a long term owner, id be surprised if he was here more then another year or two.

I see him as a long term owner but having limited day to day activity in terms of running the club. He has already appointed people such as Kinnear and Orta to largely run the club.

He doesnt want a loss making club, if we get promoted there is every chance we will get relegated again and he is back to square 1, all be it with parachute payments.

No sensible businessman should want a loss making club. Yes we could go up and come down but if we haven't totally overstretched financially we should be in a strong position to go up and be stronger.

I read yesterday Amanda Stevely and her group were still looking at club to buy, i wonder if we are one and they are waiting to see how this season pans out, they wanted a Relegation clause in the Toon deal, perhaps they are waiting to see if we get up, if so we would probably cost less then Newcastle with as much potential.


Likely waiting more on Newcastle who are in a precarious position, their value would be much less if they get relegated and no business person would buy now without a huge safety net.

[Cjay]

You may be right actually i misunderstood what Radz said, i thought he said "I'll be here a maximum of 5 years". What he actually said was that but only if we dont get promoted. Being honest Ive never been his biggest fan, i think he has done tgis on the cheap and while if we get promoted he will deserve credit i hope he understands that you cant do the Prem on the cheap, you will go down without decent investment in the playing squad.

Thats my concern really, i dont want to be a yoyo club, i dont want us to be cheap and struggling to survive.

The Brighton model really is dependent on there owner mate, they apparently may have made a profit of about £1-10mil last year apparently but again that was due to Tony Bloom investing another £30mil, they are in debt to there owner for around £300mil. They are very fortunate to have such a wealthy owner as a fan because he has funded them from his own pocket with very little chance of getting his money back, he will lose money, but as a fan he doesnt care.

Its not a position we are in and i hope Radz is aware of that, Brighton are where they are because there owner has bankrolled his club and accepts the losses as a consequence of following his heart, great respect for that. They are only sustainable even with Prem Money because the owner pumps significant cash in every year apparently.

Possibly is Newcastle but she has stated there are other English clubs her group have there eye on. It wouldn't surprise me if we were one tbf, as mentioned before i can fully see why a wealthy group would look to us as an investment.

One thing we do know about Amanda Staveley is her group will have significant funding.

Be nice if Radz could get us promoted and he will live long in Leeds folklore if he can, but i hope he would do whats best for the club if someone like Staveley came along.

Someone to take us to the next level.

[The Subhuman]

We have no evidence to say you cannot do the premiership on the cheap

[BGwhite]

What is 'cheap' ? I think with shrewd player investment and the continual use of our quality 23's coming through Leeds could survive the first year or 2 and then kick on but we need to keep MB . Would it not be a bad thing to miss out on promotion this year to build a more solid squad and go for it next season better prepared for the PL ? I'm not even convinced that AR or MB anticipated being in such a strong position after just 1 season with MB as coach.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[Cjay]

What is 'cheap' ? I think with shrewd player investment and the continual use of our quality 23's coming through Leeds could survive the first year or 2 and then kick on but we need to keep MB . Would it not be a bad thing to miss out on promotion this year to build a more solid squad and go for it next season better prepared for the PL ? I'm not even convinced that AR or MB anticipated being in such a strong position after just 1 season with MB as coach.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

I think investment has to be shrewd not reckless like Fulham, but it would need to be a significant amount of money imo.

We would need 4 high quality players minimum, players who significantly improve the starting 11.

The "better prepared" argument only works if the squad this season is improved upon and not weakened should we not go up.

Unfortunately if we dont go up there would be inevitable backlash from the fans especially over our January window.

There would also undoubtedly be sales, Radz has said this if we dont go up.

Clarke, Phillips, Jansson, Klich, Roofe, any player who has shown improvement would be at risk by Radz own admission.

There are no guarantees MB would put up with this, its the 2nd summer that MB tends to fall out with owners over player sales dont forget.

I dont think Bielsa would be so understanding should we not go up this year and then see his squad lose key players.

Jansson is 28 now, how many of his prime years will he waste in a 2nd division.

Roofe is 26, whether he is Prem class remains a debate (i don't think so) but would he not want a chance if it arises especially given the contract situation.

Phillips is English, they are at a premium now, Clarke the same etc.

Not going up would be a disaster imo because i cant believe the summer would be a fun event for those reasons.

Besides that top at Xmas, 3rd with 14 games to go and a game in hand, should we not go up under the circumstances then thats a failure.

Whether expected or not we should go up now, if we dont then questions will be asked.

[weasel]

You may be right actually i misunderstood what Radz said, i thought he said "I'll be here a maximum of 5 years". What he actually said was that but only if we dont get promoted. Being honest Ive never been his biggest fan, i think he has done tgis on the cheap and while if we get promoted he will deserve credit i hope he understands that you cant do the Prem on the cheap, you will go down without decent investment in the playing squad.

He has deffo done it on the cheap but it has still required investment even if it has just been reinvestment of the money the club has brought in. He has run it as a business, quite rightly in my opinion. In the premiership the money coming in is a lot more so if it is reinvested sensibly then there is no reason why decent money can't be spent on the squad. Additionally the youth conveyor belt looks like it is working and even if it just produces squad back-up that can save the club a lot of money.

The Brighton model really is dependent on there owner mate, they apparently may have made a profit of about £1-10mil last year apparently but again that was due to Tony Bloom investing another £30mil, they are in debt to there owner for around £300mil. They are very fortunate to have such a wealthy owner as a fan because he has funded them from his own pocket with very little chance of getting his money back, he will lose money, but as a fan he doesn't care.

I don't know much about Brighton, however I don't think they have splashed out excessively since they got into the prem. If you take Man City as an example they spent fortunes initially so that they could get the club to the level they wanted it, similarly Chelsea did, but now both are far more self sufficient making fortunes from merchandising and also selling players from their academy that won't make it in their first team. On the surface it looks similar to Brighton in that they spent excessively to get promoted but now have the bigger income so can balance the books better. I wonder if the owners are getting healthy interest on their loans and also paying themselves very healthy salaries.

Possibly is Newcastle but she has stated there are other English clubs her group have there eye on. It wouldn't surprise me if we were one tbf, as mentioned before i can fully see why a wealthy group would look to us as an investment.

One thing we do know about Amanda Staveley is her group will have significant funding.

Be nice if Radz could get us promoted and he will live long in Leeds folklore if he can, but i hope he would do whats best for the club if someone like Staveley came along.

Beware of what you wish for would be my word of caution on this or other potential owners. Mike Ashley seemed like a dream owner for Newcastle when he took over and football is littered with terrible owners. No guarantee that we wouldn't get a far worse owner. In AR we have someone running the club sensibly and re-investing money that comes in as well as looking to increase income revenues. Yes one or two mistakes but nothing too damaging.

[weasel]

Unfortunately if we dont go up there would be inevitable backlash from the fans especially over our January window.

There would also undoubtedly be sales, Radz has said this if we dont go up.

Clarke, Phillips, Jansson, Klich, Roofe, any player who has shown improvement would be at risk by Radz own admission.

There are no guarantees MB would put up with this, its the 2nd summer that MB tends to fall out with owners over player sales dont forget.

I don't think Bielsa would be so understanding should we not go up this year and then see his squad lose key players.

Sadly this would be the case as championship clubs can no longer hang onto their best player for more than a season or two when the premiership clubs come calling. Whilst AR has shown he will re-invest the money there is no guarantee that the signings would be better than what we had. However at the end of last season many had written the likes of Phillips and Roofe off and Klich was unproven. The biggest key for me would be Bielsa staying and his ability to improve players. However it would be a huge failure not to get promoted this season given the position we are in and I agree there are no guarantees we would be able to be stronger next year and equally the competition for promotion could be tougher.

[SG90]

I don't even want to imagine the thought of not going up, it would be disastrous and I don't think I'd be able to stomach football anymore. We will lose Clarke, Jansson and Bielsa for sure, maybe others too and there'd be no guarantees we will replace them with better.

Given it's in our hands, game in hand, Blunts and WBA to come to ER, the best record v the top 6, it would be monumental failure not to go up.

[1964white]

I don't even want to imagine the thought of not going up, it would be disastrous and I don't think I'd be able to stomach football anymore. We will lose Clarke, Jansson and Bielsa for sure, maybe others too and there'd be no guarantees we will replace them with better.

Given it's in our hands, game in hand, Blunts and WBA to come to ER, the best record v the top 6, it would be monumental failure not to go up.

Phillips would be gone too plus Pablo would be a year older !

It doesn't bear contemplating if we fail to go up this season

There is no one better than Bielsa, Pontus, Pablo, Phillips with Clarke one of the best young prospects in this league so how would we replace them with equal qualities ?

[Cjay]

He has deffo done it on the cheap but it has still required investment even if it has just been reinvestment of the money the club has brought in. He has run it as a business, quite rightly in my opinion. In the premiership the money coming in is a lot more so if it is reinvested sensibly then there is no reason why decent money can't be spent on the squad. Additionally the youth conveyor belt looks like it is working and even if it just produces squad back-up that can save the club a lot of money.

I don't know much about Brighton, however I don't think they have splashed out excessively since they got into the prem. If you take Man City as an example they spent fortunes initially so that they could get the club to the level they wanted it, similarly Chelsea did, but now both are far more self sufficient making fortunes from merchandising and also selling players from their academy that won't make it in their first team. On the surface it looks similar to Brighton in that they spent excessively to get promoted but now have the bigger income so can balance the books better. I wonder if the owners are getting healthy interest on their loans and also paying themselves very healthy interest

Beware of what you wish for would be my word of caution on this or other potential owners. Mike Ashley seemed like a dream owner for Newcastle when he took over and football is littered with terrible owners. No guarantee that we wouldn't get a far worse owner. In AR we have someone running the club sensibly and re-investing money that comes in as well as looking to increase income revenues. Yes one or two mistakes but nothing too damaging.

As you rightly say "he has run it as a business" that is my main reason for thinking he will sell, sell when the club is most valuable, if he waits and we are battling relegation the value dips etc. Have to wait and see regarding the young players, some look promising but if we go up will they cut it in the Prem.

Radz for me has done the Man City model back to front, invest heavily in youth in an effort to find hidden gems to either boost the squad or sell at a profit while limiting spending on the first team. He has got lucky this season, just hope it holds out.

Brighton are a myth, they have spent heavily for years, about £20mil losses in transfer fees alone for the 2 full seasons Hughton was manager in The Championship and in there 2 Prem seasons around £100mil in transfer fee losses, if Radz thinks they are self sustaining and profit making club then he is horribly mistaken. Thats partly what disappointed me, he came in and mentioned the Brighton model i expected him to back the manager heavily, he hasnt, i think he was taken in by the media praise, bit of research would have shown him if heavy transfer spending wasnt his plan then he shouldn't have mentioned Brighton. I doubt it, Tony Bloom is a childhood Brighton fan, im sure he isnt throwing money away but there is no way he would make a profit on Brighton.

Mike Ashley hasnt been that bad tbf, Toon fans hate him but Rafa Benitez as manager, few promotions, European Football, Prem football, he hasnt been ideal but would we swap with Newcastle over the last decade? Probably. Radz hasnt done anything to damaging but he has embarrassed the club with his rants and things, needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. 3 wasted January windows are down to Radz, under Monk, under TC and under Bielsa, he deserves some credit but he has been given a much easier ride then other Owners we have had would have.