How can we compete?

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BobHirst
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How can we compete?

Post by BobHirst »

I saw this article, in the Sporting Life, which said that sacking Mourinho and his staff cost MU 19.6 million pounds.

"The severance pay, however, is the only bad grade in an otherwise glowing report, with the club posting record revenues of £208.6million for the quarter, which translate into earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) of £104.3million and an operating profit of £44million".

So despite paying out 20 million, they still made 44 million profit for the last quarter of 2018!

When you see these figures and see the money that the top premier league teams have been spending it does make me think "How can we compete?".
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by gessa »

The simple fact is we can't, neither can any of the others barring around 5 teams.
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Re: How can we compete?

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That is why our youth policy is so vital. If we can regularly produce youth players good enough to become first team players then it saves s a fortune in transfer fees (or brings in money if they are sold). In some ways the Chelsea/Man City models need to be our way as we can then sell on players who aren't good enough for us (hopefully recouping decent fees). We also need AR's media skills to really make Leeds money from worldwide tv and also our merchandising operations to be able to tap into the far east markets. Then success on the pitch is helpful too, certainly just being in the premiership is a good start but then if you can crack the champions league then there is a bucketload of money there. You can see why Ridsdale took the gamble as if we had made it into the Champions League for a couple more years that might well have brought in another £50m.
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by Cjay »

We cant, which is the depressing side of getting promoted, its a fight for mediocrity.

It would take years and years to gather enough funds and revenue streams to truly compete in the Prem (i dont consider anything but top 6 competing, anything below top 6 is just existing).

But, in time we could maybe, not with Radz as owner, not doing him down but he just couldnt compete in the Prem financially, couldnt and wouldnt want to imo, he will look to sell when we get promoted.
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by BGwhite »

Have to agree about AR selling if we get promotion but I'd rather be in it and finish 17th for a couple of years than be in this loser league however this season is one of the best imo for total unpredictability.

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Re: How can we compete?

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Sugar daddy required
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by Muppet the Cat »

BGwhite wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:17 pm Have to agree about AR selling if we get promotion but I'd rather be in it and finish 17th for a couple of years than be in this loser league however this season is one of the best imo for total unpredictability.

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I appreciate that these days the PL is considered the Promised Land but I'm not sure BGw..........where's the joy in expecting to get beat every game and hopefully survive the drop. Personally, I'd rather be in a division below and be challenging at the top end, rather than struggling at the foot of the division above.

:moggy:
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by BGwhite »

Muppet the Cat wrote:
I appreciate that these days the PL is considered the Promised Land but I'm not sure BGw..........where's the joy in expecting to get beat every game and hopefully survive the drop. Personally, I'd rather be in a division below and be challenging at the top end, rather than struggling at the foot of the division above.

:moggy:
I take your point . I was talking to an udders fan not long ago and he said the same. It's demoralising knowing that you're almost certain to lose every week. With all due respect to Udders and a few others in the PL I think Leeds have the potential to be right up there amongst the elite as long as we have the right owners who are prepared to invest in quality players and back a quality coach. AR has got the coach but it remains to be seen what his intentions are should we get promotion. We may be a yo-yo club for a few years like WBA but at least the club will be making progress . The last thing I want is for Leeds to be treading water in the 2nd tier with no ambition...what's the point in that.

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Re: How can we compete?

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BGwhite wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:00 am I take your point . I was talking to an udders fan not long ago and he said the same. It's demoralising knowing that you're almost certain to lose every week. With all due respect to Udders and a few others in the PL I think Leeds have the potential to be right up there amongst the elite as long as we have the right owners who are prepared to invest in quality players and back a quality coach. AR has got the coach but it remains to be seen what his intentions are should we get promotion. We may be a yo-yo club for a few years like WBA but at least the club will be making progress . The last thing I want is for Leeds to be treading water in the 2nd tier with no ambition...what's the point in that.

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To be honest though only 3 or 4 years back Huddersfield fans would have been expecting to lose most weeks in the championship. The key is initially survival (or if you do go down bouncing back) and then building. Realistically after the top 5 or 6 clubs the rest is pretty mediocre with teams like Stoke in the past able to finish top half, Burnley likewise and that's without even mentioning what Leicester did. If Leeds can get promoted and then build then once you get to top half then with 2 or 3 signings that really flourish (i.e. Leicester with Mahrez and Kante) and a couple of really good youth players coming through (think us with Woodgate and Kewell) and suddenly you have a chance. The key is then to win something and establish yourself at the next level, like Tottenham have done, so you don't just end up selling your best players. Tottenham are perhaps the example for us to follow as they have never really threatened to be a superpower like Chelsea, Man U, City, Arsenal or Liverpool and certainly haven't splashed the cash like those teams yet they are now considered as 1 of the big 6.
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by NorfolkWhite »

Had this exact discussion with some mates (Norwich fans) yesterday, a club like us has got to want to be in the PL otherwise it’s the merry go round of managers and selling our best talent for ever and a day. The Wolves achievement seems to be the best we could aim for and shouldn’t be beyond our reach but I’m with Cjay I’m not sure Radz has deep enough pockets to deliver that and I’m one of the biggest supporters of what he has done (and continues to do) for the club.
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Re: How can we compete?

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weasel wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:55 am To be honest though only 3 or 4 years back Huddersfield fans would have been expecting to lose most weeks in the championship. The key is initially survival (or if you do go down bouncing back) and then building. Realistically after the top 5 or 6 clubs the rest is pretty mediocre with teams like Stoke in the past able to finish top half, Burnley likewise and that's without even mentioning what Leicester did. If Leeds can get promoted and then build then once you get to top half then with 2 or 3 signings that really flourish (i.e. Leicester with Mahrez and Kante) and a couple of really good youth players coming through (think us with Woodgate and Kewell) and suddenly you have a chance. The key is then to win something and establish yourself at the next level, like Tottenham have done, so you don't just end up selling your best players. Tottenham are perhaps the example for us to follow as they have never really threatened to be a superpower like Chelsea, Man U, City, Arsenal or Liverpool and certainly haven't splashed the cash like those teams yet they are now considered as 1 of the big 6.
Burnley, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Southampton have all shown how to approach premiership survival over the years although I reckon the Saints could be heading back to the championship as they have sold too many of their star players with far too many managerial changes !

Much of premiership survival is down to having the right coach/manager in place, right now that is a major plus for us should we achieve promotion.
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by Cjay »

The hope for me is if we become a Premier league club we automatically become a fantastic prospect for anyone hoping to do what the Arabs have done for Manchester City, not just for the club but for the city itself they have invested fortunes.

The Wolves lot seem to have a similar plan.

I think Leeds as a club and a city would be very attractive to that sort of investor, not your typical owner but huge wealthy conglomerates with big ideas.

Manchester is a huge city with potential, Leeds is the same, a huge 1 club city.

If Radz is telling the truth (and im not sure he is) but he said he has been offered twice his purchase price of Leeds already, that's a touch under £100mil.

If someone has the funds to offer £100mil for a 2nd division club then that isnt your usual owner, thats someone with deep deep pockets.

Radz isnt that man, but hopefully if we are stable financially and get promoted then Radz can find the sort of owners that can make us a powerhouse again.

Look at Wolves, with the greatest of respect to them the Black Country is hardly the place youd look for investment.

Leeds could be and thats good for the club, make Leeds FC successful and the knock on effect for the City could be great.

Thats attractive to the sort of owner i hope we could attract.

Not your run of the mill owner but a mega power like PSG, Man City etc.

If Wolves and Villa can get that sort of owner in the Championship then we should be able to in the Premier league
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by BGwhite »

Just what I wanted to say cjay but couldn't find the words. You're right about the Black Country, I used to live about 3 miles from Molineux , it's an impressive ground but the area is dead and getting worse , yet another club whose gates are below that of Leeds.

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Re: How can we compete?

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I actually think AR has the pockets and contacts to take the club forward, however they aren't going to spend the big bucks until we are a premiership club. It is very easy to gamble, and forget FPP for a minute, and lose £30m+ per year as a championship club and not get promoted. I think AR is trying to get us promoted but without risking much financially.

Get us into the premiership and it is a different story. Suddenly the club has the extra £100m+ guaranteed coming in from Sky. As such the income is much more and also the value of the club is so much more. As such the investment in the land round ER (and AR has already spoke to the council about buying the land and presumably agreed fees etc) suddenly becomes very sensible from a financial viewpoint (not worth doing whilst we are a championship club).

I think a lot of plans are afoot just waiting for us to get the financial security that comes with being in the premiership and I feel AR plans to be a big part of it, however he may sell percentages here and there, like he already has done, but remain in overall control.
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Re: How can we compete?

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weasel wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:32 pm I actually think AR has the pockets and contacts to take the club forward, however they aren't going to spend the big bucks until we are a premiership club. It is very easy to gamble, and forget FPP for a minute, and lose £30m+ per year as a championship club and not get promoted. I think AR is trying to get us promoted but without risking much financially.

Get us into the premiership and it is a different story. Suddenly the club has the extra £100m+ guaranteed coming in from Sky. As such the income is much more and also the value of the club is so much more. As such the investment in the land round ER (and AR has already spoke to the council about buying the land and presumably agreed fees etc) suddenly becomes very sensible from a financial viewpoint (not worth doing whilst we are a championship club).

I think a lot of plans are afoot just waiting for us to get the financial security that comes with being in the premiership and I feel AR plans to be a big part of it, however he may sell percentages here and there, like he already has done, but remain in overall control.
I really hope your assessment is correct.
However I'm a pessimist and have felt for years that our only way out of our "obscurity" is for a very very rich owner to take over.
I like your ideas though.
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by Cjay »

weasel wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:32 pm I actually think AR has the pockets and contacts to take the club forward, however they aren't going to spend the big bucks until we are a premiership club. It is very easy to gamble, and forget FPP for a minute, and lose £30m+ per year as a championship club and not get promoted. I think AR is trying to get us promoted but without risking much financially.

Get us into the premiership and it is a different story. Suddenly the club has the extra £100m+ guaranteed coming in from Sky. As such the income is much more and also the value of the club is so much more. As such the investment in the land round ER (and AR has already spoke to the council about buying the land and presumably agreed fees etc) suddenly becomes very sensible from a financial viewpoint (not worth doing whilst we are a championship club).

I think a lot of plans are afoot just waiting for us to get the financial security that comes with being in the premiership and I feel AR plans to be a big part of it, however he may sell percentages here and there, like he already has done, but remain in overall control.
I think Radz will sell us quite quickly if we get promoted, he clearly doesnt want to invest to much, hence the 49ers.

Buying the ground, discussions about the land around ER, training ground and such.

All points to someone readying an asset for a sale, making it more attractive to buyers.

Its smart business, but i dont think Radz will stick around to long after promotion if it happens.

He wants to make money, football clubs tend not to do that, the best way for him to make money is to flip us after promotion imo and thats the right thing to do.
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by SG90 »

I'd hate for us to become another soulless sugar daddy club, throwing fortunes at mediocre players and neglecting our academy, while caring more about having 'fans' in the Far East, USA etc. If we went up, the one thing I'd like us to do is improve the academy and look to clubs like Ajax, Sporting, Lyon etc as inspiration.
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Re: How can we compete?

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1964white wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:53 pm Sugar daddy required
Spot on.

We are just one billionaire away from a PL title...
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Re: How can we compete?

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Cjay wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:15 pm I think Radz will sell us quite quickly if we get promoted, he clearly doesnt want to invest to much, hence the 49ers.

Buying the ground, discussions about the land around ER, training ground and such.

All points to someone readying an asset for a sale, making it more attractive to buyers.

Its smart business, but i dont think Radz will stick around to long after promotion if it happens.

He wants to make money, football clubs tend not to do that, the best way for him to make money is to flip us after promotion imo and thats the right thing to do.
While it would make sense for him to cash in I just don't see it happening. Too many things point to the long term, most notable the discussions to buy land and the huge investment in the youth side of things. If the plan was to flip it then simply cut the youth funding, certainly don't buy young players, and spend that money on the first team (or keep it in your pocket). The youth side of things is such a long term thing, okay some lads have come through to the first team but they were already at the club and obviously nearer being ready.

It all points to long term putting the club on a solid footing and being able to compete without needing to spend the huge money that City and others have spent on their first team squad. I definitely see him relinquishing some of his stock but not selling up.
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Re: How can we compete?

Post by The Subhuman »

I love the way we're doing it at the moment. I'd certainly want to see Rads attempt the Premiership and with the s**t load of talent we have coming through we could be a powerhouse in 3-5 years if we keep our nerve.

I really hope he doesn't sell.
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