John Motson gaffe?

[rich_leeds64]

I doubt Tom Elliott would have been offended as it’s simply an adjective.
We’re all so easily upset these days. I worked with two “coloured” guys for over 20 years and they referred to themselves and their friends as black.

[Gurj]

If Brian Deane has no issues with it, what is the proble ?! As a British born guy of indian parenthood, I have had a lot of genuinely offensive things said to me over the years but the world really is going PC mad now. No Black person, would be seriously offended by this description. Move on folks.

[Sara]

But would anyone have taken offence at that? Just asking.....

I think this whole 'being offended' thing is generally misunderstood. The context here is a sport in which black players are still subjected to racist chanting and abuse. For Motson to single out the player by the colour of his skin is to highlight his race as a difference, which in said context is unhelpful to say the least. I'm sure Motson was not intending to be racist, and no, the word black is not itself offensive, but if we want to move beyond a situation where players are racially abused then we need to be proactive in thinking about the way we describe people.

The comparison to the use of the word white, or even viking, to describe someone doesn't stand up, because white players do not get racially abused for being white. It isn't a level playing field, so you can't apply the same standards to both if you want things to change. When white people say, I don't see the problem, what are you getting offended about, they are not speaking from a context of having to live with racism.

I'm white, I was brought up in the 60s and 70s. Everyone I knew routinely used racist language, at home and at school. Most of us didn't mean any harm by it, and wouldn't abuse anyone to their face, but it betrayed an unconscious assumption about white people being, if not superior, then at least the norm in this country. Again, the historical context is colonialism, where the supposed superiority of the white race and white culture was used as a justification for oppression, exploitation and slavery.

Sorry to go on at length, but I think it's an important issue, and it's difficult to explain the problem of racism to people who don't see it because haven't experienced it.

[HarryofOz]

It has nothing to do with taking offence or PCness.

Would Motson refer to any white footballer by the colour of their skin, would he ever say that Harry Kane was lethal white goalscorer? Of course he wouldn't, And that is the issue, here, not whether what he said was offensive or not.

[Genghers]

I doubt Tom Elliott would have been offended as it’s simply an adjective.
We’re all so easily upset these days. I worked with two “coloured” guys for over 20 years and they referred to themselves and their friends as black.

It's an adjective, sure, but unnecessary in the context of what Motty was saying.

Nothing wrong with using the word describe someone if necessary (e.g. giving a description to the police or whatever).

[lufc1304]

I think this whole 'being offended' thing is generally misunderstood. The context here is a sport in which black players are still subjected to racist chanting and abuse. For Motson to single out the player by the colour of his skin is to highlight his race as a difference, which in said context is unhelpful to say the least. I'm sure Motson was not intending to be racist, and no, the word black is not itself offensive, but if we want to move beyond a situation where players are racially abused then we need to be proactive in thinking about the way we describe people.

The comparison to the use of the word white, or even viking, to describe someone doesn't stand up, because white players do not get racially abused for being white. It isn't a level playing field, so you can't apply the same standards to both if you want things to change. When white people say, I don't see the problem, what are you getting offended about, they are not speaking from a context of having to live with racism.

I'm white, I was brought up in the 60s and 70s. Everyone I knew routinely used racist language, at home and at school. Most of us didn't mean any harm by it, and wouldn't abuse anyone to their face, but it betrayed an unconscious assumption about white people being, if not superior, then at least the norm in this country. Again, the historical context is colonialism, where the supposed superiority of the white race and white culture was used as a justification for oppression, exploitation and slavery.

Sorry to go on at length, but I think it's an important issue, and it's difficult to explain the problem of racism to people who don't see it because haven't experienced it.

Well said, Sara, excellent summation

[1964white]

If Brian Deane has no issues with it, what is the proble ?! As a British born guy of indian parenthood, I have had a lot of genuinely offensive things said to me over the years but the world really is going PC mad now. No Black person, would be seriously offended by this description. Move on folks.

True mate but the PC brigade become offended

When you are calling our bleached No.10 a white honky I'll still come & calm you down with a hug

[danhirons]

If Brian Deane has no issues with it, what is the proble ?! As a British born guy of indian parenthood, I have had a lot of genuinely offensive things said to me over the years but the world really is going PC mad now. No Black person, would be seriously offended by this description. Move on folks.

If Brian Deane says it's OK, then it must be OK!

[Gurj]

True mate but the PC brigade become offended

When you are calling our bleached No.10 a white honky I'll still come & calm you down with a hug

PMSL !!!

[Gurj]

If Brian Deane says it's OK, then it must be OK!

Haha, you know the point I am making. It seems to me that a lot more white people are in arms over this comment by Motson than black people !!! Madness, utter madness.

[weasel]

I'm white, I was brought up in the 60s and 70s.

Sorry to go on at length, but I think it's an important issue, and it's difficult to explain the problem of racism to people who don't see it because haven't experienced it.

Good to have a white person who hasn't experienced racism explain this to all of us honkies who haven't experienced it either....

Like I said earlier it is people being offended on behalf of people who haven't found it offensive. Yes it was unnecessary for Motson to use the word black, I can only presume he meant it in a positive way in basically describing Elliot as powerful like a 100 metre sprinter where the sprinters are predominantly not white. It was the wrong choice of word but not offensive.

[rich_leeds64]

Having played Sunday league football around Dewsbury and Bradford I can tell you 1st hand, I and my team mates were subjected to racism both verbally and occasionally physically. White sh*te was one of the favourites.

I doubt Tom Elliott will be dwelling on the comment .

[hector]

39fac1e26f34eac55863b2a9bcde7f03.jpg (99.7 KiB) Viewed 1541 times

[The Subhuman]

I'm staying out of this because neither side is right or wrong.

[Sara]

Good to have a white person who hasn't experienced racism explain this to all of us honkies who haven't experienced it either....

Like I said earlier it is people being offended on behalf of people who haven't found it offensive.

I have experienced other forms of discrimination, so I can relate. The point being that I've had to make a conscious journey to understand why anti racist measures are necessary.

I was also trying to explain why I don't think it's anything to do with being 'offended'.

[weasel]

So no actual experience of 'experiencing racism?'

Just being offended on behalf of those who have but that don't seem bothered by this. Maybe you should contact Brian (Deane) and tell him why he should be offended.

[BobHirst]

Because he called him a black c*nt, not because he called him black. Anyone can be a c*nt and the person's race has nothing to do with it. Adding the 'black' part into what he said suggests that it is part of the vitriol.

Put any other ethnicity in there and imagine saying it to someone on the street ("You f*cking Pakistani c*nt", for instance). I suspect you'd think twice, and I suspect the police would err on the side of it being racially motivated.

I'm doing this from memory, so forgive me if I'm wrong.
Ferdinand laughed when Terry called him a F C. When someone told him that Terry had called him a B F C he got angry/offended. So doesn't that indicate that being called black was what offended him?

[Mick Jones shoulder]

True mate but the PC brigade become offended

When you are calling our bleached No.10 a white honky I'll still come & calm you down with a hug

Very Love Thy Neighbour no chance we will be watching that anytime soon 64

[Sara]

So no actual experience of 'experiencing racism?'

Just being offended on behalf of those who have but that don't seem bothered by this. Maybe you should contact Brian (Deane) and tell him why he should be offended.

I've already said twice it's nothing to do with being offended, and I explained my reasoning.

[1964white]

Very Love Thy Neighbour no chance we will be watching that anytime soon 64

I wonder if Rudolph Walker & Nina Baden-Semper were offended when acting their parts in Love Thy Neighbour