Jean-Kévin Augustin-Appealing wage compensation

[Irish Ian]

You would think by some of the comments about Bielsa and his system that he is the only manager who uses high press, attacking wingbacks and a lone striker up front. The only manager who likes high possession attacking football.
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Unlike most of us who are from an older generation these players have grown up using tactics like these, in many cases it is all they know.

There are other sides on the planet who dont play hoofball week in week out.

Rant over.

I feel better now

[weasel]

Also completely different regarding Rooney as he was actually training with Derby for a long time before he could play due to his contractual situation. As such he would have been fit, he was also playing regularly before going to Derby, and would have been up to speed with any tactical formation etc that Cocu plays. If Derby had have been top then yes I do think they would have introduced Rooney more gradually as it wouldn't have been fair on whoever was dropped to make way for him and could have upset team spirit etc. As it was Derby needed some spark to try to convert a team nearer to relegation into a potential play off challenger - they weren't going to do that by simply sticking to the same players who haven't really performed all season.

[The Subhuman]

Rooney wasn't fit when he started for Derby, looked incredibly rusty and off the pace. You cannot get match fit without playing matches. My guess would be Augustin is no more match fit than when he arrived...

[weasel]

Klich was left out by TC for a slip he made that led to goal, after that he was shipped out to Holland... in the light of how he has performed under Bielsa we could surmise TC made a mistake. Managers get it wrong sometimes.

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Hard to judge from the outside but that snub may have been the kick up the ar$e that Klich needed. Sometimes players need the reality check that someone thinks they aren't good enough. Maybe with Bielsa initially also not rating him something Kliched (see what I did there?) and he realised he needed to change and he did. Most players have the talent to play but it often needs more than just talent to succeed.

[weasel]

You would think by some of the comments about Bielsa and his system that he is the only manager who uses high press, attacking wingbacks and a lone striker up front. The only manager who likes high possession attacking football.
,
Unlike most of us who are from an older generation these players have grown up using tactics like these, in many cases it is all they know.

There are other sides on the planet who dont play hoofball week in week out.

Rant over.

I feel better now

I would say 99% or more managers don't have systems as complex as Bielsa's. The likes of Klopp and Guardiola are the same. Any manager at any level can play a system using wingbacks, 1 striker etc etc but if you watch the way we play compared to how other teams play then there is a huge difference. Every player knows where they have to be on the pitch even if the ball is nowhere near them. It is more like a chess match with our players having to think 3 or 4 moves in advance and that is the key as they then get into positions before the opposition. That is why all over the pitch we can control possession as even if we have it by our corner flag the player will usually have a couple of options and if not even if he hoists it up the line there will usually be 1 or 2 of our players moving to that area so that it isn't just a hopeful punt up the line. The only area where it isn't as effective is the opposition penalty area because no matter what planning and preparation you do if the opposition have 8 or 9 players in such a congested area it is harder to find space.

[Irish Ian]

I would say 99% or more managers don't have systems as complex as Bielsa's. The likes of Klopp and Guardiola are the same. Any manager at any level can play a system using wingbacks, 1 striker etc etc but if you watch the way we play compared to how other teams play then there is a huge difference. Every player knows where they have to be on the pitch even if the ball is nowhere near them. It is more like a chess match with our players having to think 3 or 4 moves in advance and that is the key as they then get into positions before the opposition. That is why all over the pitch we can control possession as even if we have it by our corner flag the player will usually have a couple of options and if not even if he hoists it up the line there will usually be 1 or 2 of our players moving to that area so that it isn't just a hopeful punt up the line. The only area where it isn't as effective is the opposition penalty area because no matter what planning and preparation you do if the opposition have 8 or 9 players in such a congested area it is harder to find space.

I get what you are saying Weasel, I just wonder at times if it is overcooked at times.

I just wonder about a system that demands so much from the “strong nine” as Leeds does. It calls for a special talent. We wasted Nketiah and I worry we could waste Kev and fall short again.

[Sara]

Klich was left out by TC for a slip he made that led to goal, after that he was shipped out to Holland... in the light of how he has performed under Bielsa we could surmise TC made a mistake. Managers get it wrong sometimes.

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Yes, I know, and I still don't see what bearing that has on any attitude problem in Augustin's past. Different player, different issue, different manager.

[weasel]

I get what you are saying Weasel, I just wonder at times if it is overcooked at times.

I just wonder about a system that demands so much from the “strong nine” as Leeds does. It calls for a special talent. We wasted Nketiah and I worry we could waste Kev and fall short again.

The trouble we had with Nketiah was how late he came to us, after the season had started, so he hadn't had any chance to get used to the way we play. I do feel towards the end of his time here he was beginning to get used to the way we played and was more of a threat to start games. Initially because of the way he was used to playing he was far more suited to the impact sub role.

JKA - different story for me. This is a player Bielsa knows about. A player that will be ours if we get promoted so for us to insert that clause shows that we want him and it may be that it is a long term project with him. Note how Bielsa was saying about keeping Nketiah beyond this season and seeing the real benefits next season. I expect JKA to now really be threatening Bamford's starting place.

[The Subhuman]

If managers ship out players for one error then the whole squad is gone in 6 weeks. So that's plainly rubbish and if that's what TC said then he's clearly economical with the truth..

[BGwhite]

Rooney wasn't fit when he started for Derby, looked incredibly rusty and off the pace. You cannot get match fit without playing matches. My guess would be Augustin is no more match fit than when he arrived...

Absolutely. Bielsa is once again backing himself into a corner by not giving these guys 20 mins or more to get there fitness and sharpness up. He looks at the bench and sees most of them have no experience...whose fault is that ? He needs to start showing faith in his squad not just his team . A necessary sub on Saturday resulted in 4 positional changes which didn't backfire but against quality opposition (PL) and a few in this league it could well have played right into the hands of the other team. I repeat, he's scraping by atm .

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[BGwhite]

I get what you are saying Weasel, I just wonder at times if it is overcooked at times.

I just wonder about a system that demands so much from the “strong nine” as Leeds does. It calls for a special talent. We wasted Nketiah and I worry we could waste Kev and fall short again.

With you there II. We get to the 18yd line and then a pass goes astray or a 1-2 hasn't worked and whole move comes to nothing. This happens repeatedly because generally the other team floods their box with players. Sometimes it needs doing the old way...shoot ON TARGET from outside the box but make the keeper work ! Try something different...

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[Sara]

Bielsa is once again backing himself into a corner by not giving these guys 20 mins or more to get there fitness and sharpness up. He looks at the bench and sees most of them have no experience...

We really don't know that's what's happening at all.

[The Subhuman]

TBH I don't know if he is or not, but it's a dangerous game if we want promotion. We're basically putting all our eggs into one basket as we have all season and if it backfires then we probably don't go up

[BGwhite]

We really don't know that's what's happening at all.

Looking at the bench on Saturday there was one player with any sort of match time .

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[The Subhuman]

The game time Augustin has had so far has been negligible, really of not much use to him as a player at all.

[Sara]

So what's the alternative? Rotate more and risk losing the intensity and connection between the first team players? Have less possession, create fewer chances?

It seems to me that Bielsa has a particular way of doing things, which produces certain strengths and weaknesses. The strengths have us five points clear of third with twelve games to go, despite the weaknesses, and yet people are hankering for him to do it differently.

Based on what? A series of f**k ups and a poor run at the wrong time last season? Or the simple fact that every other manager does it differently, so it must be wrong?

For better or worse, Bielsa's method is what we've got. Personally, I think he gets incredible performances out of the players we have, and the whole is so much greater than sum of its parts. We've just got to grit our teeth and let him get on with it. He might even succeed...

[The Subhuman]

So what's the alternative? Rotate more and risk losing the intensity and connection between the first team players? Have less possession, create fewer chances?

It seems to me that Bielsa has a particular way of doing things, which produces certain strengths and weaknesses. The strengths have us five points clear of third with twelve games to go, despite the weaknesses, and yet people are hankering for him to do it differently.

Based on what? A series of f**k ups and a poor run at the wrong time last season? Or the simple fact that every other manager does it differently, so it must be wrong?

For better or worse, Bielsa's method is what we've got. Personally, I think he gets incredible performances out of the players we have, and the whole is so much greater than sum of its parts. We've just got to grit our teeth and let him get on with it.

That's where we differ, you think the players are just average and MB is getting the best out of them. I think we have quality footballers and we really shouldn't be trusting to maybe..

[1964white]

That's where we differ, you think the players are just average and MB is getting the best out of them. I think we have quality footballers and we really shouldn't be trusting to maybe..

Just hope you realise Faaip the premiership is a totally different level to championship football

[The Subhuman]

The bottom half of the prem would struggle in the Championship, even with a shed load of money to play with. We see it all the time. If the Prem was so far ahead of the Championship we'd see teams coming down go straight back up..all of them

The prem is two divisions in one

The top 8-10
The rest

The rest and the better championship teams are on a par..

[1964white]

The bottom half of the prem would struggle in the Championship, even with a shed load of money to play with. We see it all the time. If the Prem was so far ahead of the Championship we'd see teams coming down go straight back up..all of them

The prem is two divisions in one

The top 8-10
The rest

The rest and the better championship teams are on a par..

You've always insisted you have little interest & don't watch premiership football

The prem is better than you think it is mate, some of those teams in the bottom half are no mugs, they are much stronger than the likes of Wigan, Charlton, Forest, QPR, Sheff Wed & the others who have beaten us this season