Breaking news - Casilla

[rab_rant]

I do believe you, and I had no intention to imply otherwise.

My point was that white and black people have a very different experience of growing up and living in this country. If you are black, the colour of your skin will affect your chances and your treatment in so many ways.

This simply isn't the case if you are white, so as white people we don't tend to see skin colour as such a big issue; because it isn't, for us.

I watch Dr Who and the present sidekicks are a young Asian girl, a young black boy, and an aging pensioner. Oh and the doctor is now a woman. I think the BBC have got the politisilly correct demographic covered there.

The message is not so very subtle that there should be equal rights and opportunities. We are being edjumacated.

When it comes to applying for jobs then quotas have to be filled and what can a well educated white think when a token black or asian is given the job... it is a sort of reverse discrimination.

"Is it because me is white that me don't get this job"

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[Peter in Blackpool]

I have thought long and hard about this situation and my comments would be the same if the player banned played for Man U.

when does describing a black person as black become racist?

If I were mugged and the Police asked me for a description of my attacker and I described them as black, 6 foot tall wearing a green tshirt and scruffy jeans.....would i then be arrested for being racist.?

No, of course not!

there is a world of difference between mark the black guy......and telling the same guy to fxxx off back to the jungle

what next? will Blackpool FC be told to change its name or face charges?

[danhirons]

I have thought long and hard about this situation and my comments would be the same if the player banned played for Man U.

when does describing a black person as black become racist?

If I were mugged and the Police asked me for a description of my attacker and I described them as black, 6 foot tall wearing a green tshirt and scruffy jeans.....would i then be arrested for being racist.?

No, of course not!

there is a world of difference between mark the black guy......and telling the same guy to fxxx off back to the jungle

what next? will Blackpool FC be told to change its name or face charges?

but do we know exactly what he said? he definitely didn't say "mark the black guy" in English. The accusations seems to be that he used the N word. If he spoke in Spanish, that makes literally no sense for him to be speaking in Spanish and I wouldn't find this argument convincing either....

[White Riot]

I do believe you, and I had no intention to imply otherwise.

My point was that white and black people have a very different experience of growing up and living in this country. If you are black, the colour of your skin will affect your chances and your treatment in so many ways.

This simply isn't the case if you are white, so as white people we don't tend to see skin colour as such a big issue; because it isn't, for us.

I could feel as equally discriminated against because I've got a strong Northern accent and come from a working class background - both of which I'm very proud of. I could use the excuse that this bars me from an easy silver spoon path in life, but I don't, because I believe its up to yourself to make your own path and be determined to succeed in life. If some soft Southerner wants to call me a Norvern Mankee, ferret/pigeon lover I don't take offence and just think its hilarious.

Having said that, I was in Japan a couple of years ago, love the people, culture and everyting about the place, but it did give me a true impression of what its like to be in a minority - like being a fish out of water, even though I loved being there.

[White Riot]

I watch Dr Who and the present sidekicks are a young Asian girl, a young black boy, and an aging pensioner. Oh and the doctor is now a woman. I think the BBC have got the politisilly correct demographic covered there.

The message is not so very subtle that there should be equal rights and opportunities. We are being edjumacated.

When it comes to applying for jobs then quotas have to be filled and what can a well educated white think when a token black or asian is given the job... it is a sort of reverse discrimination.

"Is it because me is white that me don't get this job"

"Hear me now"

More likely that you wouldn't get the job because corruption, nepotism and favouritism are not just the modus operandi of the EFL and FA.

[Peter in Blackpool]

Thanks, Ian. In a way they are. I think being harassed because of my sex gives me some empathy with what it might feel like to be harassed because of your race.

As I was saying to 64, it's harder to grasp the impact of these things if you haven't been on the receiving end of them. The various comments along the lines of, you can't say anything these days, indicate a lack of understanding imo.

Sara, I do understand where you are coming from, but not knowing your situation I could lay odds that your harrassment was not confined to someone calling you a woman......Leko's complaint was that he was called black.....not racist, descriptive.

[Sara]

Does me anyone out there believe the FA/EFL are professional, unbiased and capable of managing an incident like this and ensuring justice?

This does seem to be the issue, doesn't it - not that we don't want justice to be done, but that we have little faith in the organisation or the process to carry it out fairly.

Re your other point, I think there is a difference between offending or upsetting someone just by being an arse to them in general, and targeting someone for their race, gender, sexuality, ability etc.

The law makes this distinction because it recognises that certain characteristics can put you at an unfair disadvantage in life, particularly if you are discriminated against on that basis.

It isn't a matter of being 'offended' by the use of certain words, as I might be offended if you call me a twat. Being a twat isn't a protected characteristic; if I get insulted for being a twat, it is incumbent on me to be less of a twat in future. I can't be less female/ gay/ black/ disabled in future.

[rrfierce]

On the plus side it's a good time for meslier to come in. Hull aren't getting many results and we are full of confidence.

I think casilla probably said something involving the word black in English or Spanish and the Charlton players touch offence possibly rightly so. Not sure a white player would feel the same if his skin colour was mentioned and if a black keeper did the same thing would he get the same treatment ?

[BobHirst]

Thanks, Ian. In a way they are. I think being harassed because of my sex gives me some empathy with what it might feel like to be harassed because of your race.

As I was saying to 64, it's harder to grasp the impact of these things if you haven't been on the receiving end of them. The various comments along the lines of, you can't say anything these days, indicate a lack of understanding imo.

The various comments along the lines of, you can't say anything these days, indicate a lack of understanding imo.

You can't say that though. You are not a man so you don't know what men have to endure.

[Sara]

Sara, I do understand where you are coming from, but not knowing your situation I could lay odds that your harrassment was not confined to someone calling you a woman......Leko's complaint was that he was called black.....not racist, descriptive.

The question is whether there was a derogatory intent. I would agree that the word 'black' isn't inherently racist as a descriptor. It doesn't seem that that is the word Kiko used though, at least not in English.

[rich_leeds64]

There’s only Kiko himself who knows what was said, not Leko as he’s only thought he heard.
Has anyone stopped to think how this unproven allegation has/is affecting Kiko, he’s been told by the FA he probably said something racist when he probably didn’t it’s more likely something lost in accent and translation that Leko probably heard.

Kiko could be suffering with depression and mental health issues due to all this and in some cases people could consider suicide. It’s a very unsafe and unfair verdict and I just wish he would fight this and clear his name.

[Sara]

You are not a man so you don't know what men have to endure.

This is true, I only know what they don't have to endure!

It's a fair point though; stats around male suicide and male mental health speak to the kinds of pressures men are under.

[rab_rant]

This does seem to be the issue, doesn't it - not that we don't want justice to be done, but that we have little faith in the organisation or the process to carry it out fairly.

Re your other point, I think there is a difference between offending or upsetting someone just by being an arse to them in general, and targeting someone for their race, gender, sexuality, ability etc.

The law makes this distinction because it recognises that certain characteristics can put you at an unfair disadvantage in life, particularly if you are discriminated against on that basis.

It isn't a matter of being 'offended' by the use of certain words, as I might be offended if you call me a twat. Being a twat isn't a protected characteristic; if I get insulted for being a twat, it is incumbent on me to be less of a twat in future. I can't be less female/ gay/ black/ disabled in future.

Michael Jackson was less black.
Anne Heche is less gay.
Kye Allums is less female.
Christy Brown is less disabled.

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[Sara]

Michael Jackson was less black.
Anne Heche is less gay.
Kye Allums is less female.
Christy Brown is less disabled.

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But you are no less pedantic...

[Peter in Blackpool]

There’s only Kiko himself who knows what was said, not Leko as he’s only thought he heard.
Has anyone stopped to think how this unproven allegation has/is affecting Kiko, he’s been told by the FA he probably said something racist when he probably didn’t it’s more likely something lost in accent and translation that Leko probably heard.

Kiko could be suffering with depression and mental health issues due to all this and in some cases people could consider suicide. It’s a very unsafe and unfair verdict and I just wish he would fight this and clear his name.

absolutely! God forbid, but I wonder what the repurcussions would be if Kiko killed himself leaving a note saying he is not racist in anyway but can't live with being branded as one.

something similar happened to me many years ago when i was arrested and branded evil, accused as i were of a very heinous crime, I could have easily killed myself, but fortunately decided to fight the system and cleared my name

[weasel]

I think footballers in general are probably less racist than people in any other walk of life. This is because at every club, certainly in this country, there is a wide mix of races so you get used to people of different colours/races. A lot of racism is caused because the person being racist hasn't mixed with people of different race so see them as being different. In a similar way to rich people look down on poor people because they haven't mixed with them.

There is also a huge difference between saying something racist on a football pitch where there is no physical threat related to it. Much different someone saying something that they shouldn't on the pitch than the threat level that would go with the same words if used out on an open street where someone could feel physically threatened by those words.

[Irish Ian]

Gotta say I agree with you here Sara and diagree with Ian. Its just a different form of discrimination, not nice at all and you've got a real insight into how it feels when you're on the shitty end of the stick.

What did I say WR?

[rab_rant]

But you are no less pedantic...

I only pointed out with a few examples that some celebrities are not happy with the colour of their skin, their sexual orientation, or their gender and they change.

Christy Brown was the exception, who though being disabled overcame his disability and wrote with his left foot.

I objected to the implication that if you were female gay black or disabled then that automatically puts you in a category where you are likely to be persecuted.

White people wearing dreadlocks, black women having their hair straightened... everybody is making changes to their appearance or their bodies... is it to become more comfortable or more accepted or less persecuted.

We live in a fluid society and gender politics has very little to do with football... ask any REFEREE'S ASSISTANT that.

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[Irish Ian]

There’s only Kiko himself who knows what was said, not Leko as he’s only thought he heard.
Has anyone stopped to think how this unproven allegation has/is affecting Kiko, he’s been told by the FA he probably said something racist when he probably didn’t it’s more likely something lost in accent and translation that Leko probably heard.

Kiko could be suffering with depression and mental health issues due to all this and in some cases people could consider suicide. It’s a very unsafe and unfair verdict and I just wish he would fight this and clear his name.

I agree and it is one of the reasons that I think the whole system is not geared to actually dealing with the problems around issues like this.

Kiko should have been given the opportunity to meet up with his accuser and been allowed to talk the issue out before it escalated.
And that mechanism should be built into any judicial system the FA use.

Now we have an outcome of someone in the public eye with a massive label attached to him and he has recourse.

[Irish Ian]

I objected to the implication that if you were female gay black or disabled then that automatically puts you in a category where you are likely to be persecuted.



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More likely to become the next Mayor of London

See that would have been funny in an ironic sort of way 30 years ago but now I am a BAD PERSON.