Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Archive for all MOT match day threads including match previews, in game chat, reports and ratings.
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 63152
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:26 pm

weasel wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:39 pm
A lot easier to play BPF when the season was effectively over (which was the case when PH selected him a few matches into his reign when the promotion dream had ended). Similar with Pearce in that it is perhaps the only crumbs of comfort from this season although even then PH preferred to play Berardi and then Anita in the position until Berardi's sending off and Anita conceding the penalty and showing for the umpteenth time this season he isn't a left back. Thankfully injuries and suspensions have forced PH to give youth players a chance and hopefully they will benefit from it and be pushing for first team starts next season based on their quality/ability rather than just making up the numbers.
No I don't think it easier to throw the young players in when the season is effectively over, there was immense pressure to prove themselves at a higher level in front of huge crowds the haven't experienced previously.
Hecky said he wanted to look at much of his squad & he has carried his plan out more or less. Like the attending fans he has probably worked out who he wants to keep & those he wishes to get shot of, no doubt he has endured a nasty shock with the knowledge how poor the squad he has inherited :shock:

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5094
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:27 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:42 pm
Yeah, and we played s**t. That is: TC and Heck with same players available: same s**t results and performances. Of course you must judge a manager based on the quality of the players who are available, what else? lol
We bossed them at Oakwell lol, on there forum they said so themselves "one of the few teams to totally outplay us at home". You must judge them on players available but that shouldn't be a reason to keep a manager should it?


Who knows? Some will say they know 100% that Heck isn`t good enough, based on the record of Heck with us and at Barnsley. And they have at least some arguments (better than those saying, they can `see` if a manager is crap or not.) But that is not my point, as I agree that he should sacked IF a better manager is in sight. Is that the case? Not that I`m aware of. McCarthy? Sigh.

Your right some say he isnt good enoughand thats it, i do try to use logic lol. That's a matter for Radz, if he shows ambitionthen there are tons of better managers available imo, Hecky was a cheap appointment and an unambitious one to start with.

Is it Hecks squad (Barnsley)? Not sure, listening to what Barnsley fans say. No inveestement in the summer etc.
But I get your point. Not much speaks for him. So yeah: if a better (based on the same criteria?) manager is in sight an willing to take over (as soon as the season ends at latest) then I would say o.k. (How would Radz/Orta explain such sacking? lol)
Its more his squad then the one that got them promoted and that was top half January last season. Marley Watkins, James Bree etc they were Lee Johnson players, the squad now is Hecky. They havent spent lots of cash but again thats a flimsy excuse because Millwall, Brentford, Preston etc spent less. The Barnsley squads officially the 18th most expensive in the league. Your right lol Orta and Radz cant both come out of this well. I did read something from Phil Hay i think that said Orta was responsible for selecting Heckingbottom, TC was Radz. Keep mentioning Oscar Garcia as a possibility, he was very interested allegedly back in 2014, but choose Watford, would he be a choice now? Perhaps.

And no, I don`t give Heck credit for playing the youngsters. As I remember he didn`t seem to think too highly of BPF...but then who did? (The latter being my point.) And no doubt that BPF will make mistakes, but the basic talent can`t be denied.
Good player, certainly didn't expect him to perform how he has, same with Pearce. Them there's the counter argument, Hecky has had a lot of injuries, but without them would he still he playing the same underperforming players? Lonners, Wiedwald, Berardi, O'Kane etc.

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6671
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by weasel » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:28 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:01 pm
Agree. But if you read my comment as intended; you will get my point: NOONE, not even those believing to know soo much better than others what is right and wrong with 100% certainty, predicted that BPF could prove a point based on his talent (he showed - did he - in the u23s)? Or is BPF playing much better than he was before in the u23s?
From clips people put up from both his time at York and his games for the U23s he certainly didn't do much to impress. Full credit to the lad though as he continues to impress and looks in line to win the man of the match award for something like the 5th match in succession. Maybe he had just got a bit disillusioned at not playing for the first team after making his debut a couple of years back. At this point though I would still be unsure as to whether he is good enough to be our no.1 keeper next season but at least he will provide better backup than Lonerghan if we get another keeper.
Senor El Weasel

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5094
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:29 pm

faaip wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:32 pm
But for balance it should have read

Negative

Alioski was poor
Now it does, are you happy? :)

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 63152
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:32 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:37 pm
Barnsley are dreadful and if we're looking at 4 of their players, then we're screwed next season.
Who said we are looking at four of the tykes ?

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6671
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by weasel » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:34 pm

1964white wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:26 pm
No I don't think it easier to throw the young players in when the season is effectively over, there was immense pressure to prove themselves at a higher level in front of huge crowds the haven't experienced previously.
Hecky said he wanted to look at much of his squad & he has carried his plan out more or less. Like the attending fans he has probably worked out who he wants to keep & those he wishes to get shot of, no doubt he has endured a nasty shock with the knowledge how poor the squad he has inherited :shock:
Well that's total b*llsh*t. The huge crowd bit is irrelevant as that would have been the same regardless of when they made their debuts for us. So you would say wait till a crucial game and throw them. in This is why managers play the younger players in meaningless cup ties so that they play with less pressure.

And again b*llshit, Hecky would have still been playing Berardi at left back if he hadn't have got sent off - he then played Anita until he gave away the penalty. Likewise he wouldn't have played O'Connor but for him being the only sensible option. Even when the youth players have been the only sensible option PH has preferred to play rightbacks and midfielders at left back, right wingers at right back and now a centreback at rightback.

Knew all the deluded PH fans would come on spouting this cr*p again now that we have scraped a win against a god awful Barnsley side that PH assemble. I bet he didn't get as nasty a shock at the quality of the squad as the new manager at Barnsley had.
Senor El Weasel

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5094
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:36 pm

1964white wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:32 pm
Who said we are looking at four of the tykes ?
Yiadom (right back)
McBurnie
Tom Bradshaw (number 9)

3 if them played today and were useless.

Given Hecky signed them all and Phil Hay has also mentioned them i think its safe to say if Hecky stays we will raid Barnsley :cry:

SG90
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:44 pm

1964white wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:32 pm
Who said we are looking at four of the tykes ?
We've been linked with Yiadom, McBurnie, Williams and Bradshaw. Hoping it's just poor journalism, but Phil Hay confirmed we're interested in McBurnie and Yiadom.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 63152
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:49 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:36 pm
Yiadom (right back)
McBurnie
Tom Bradshaw (number 9)

3 if them played today and were useless.

Given Hecky signed them all and Phil Hay has also mentioned them i think its safe to say if Hecky stays we will raid Barnsley :cry:
None of them are good enough

Hecky will be in a position to sign better players at Leeds than when he was at Barnsley.

Unconvinced any of them will end up at ER, all media speculaltion imo!

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 63152
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:53 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:44 pm
We've been linked with Yiadom, McBurnie, Williams and Bradshaw. Hoping it's just poor journalism, but Phil Hay confirmed we're interested in McBurnie and Yiadom.
Poor journalism I suspect

No one on here or any other social-media predicted the signings we made last summer or in January

Just hope we have learned our lessons & there are better to come in the next four months

SG90
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:56 pm

1964white wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:49 pm
None of them are good enough

Hecky will be in a position to sign better players at Leeds than when he was at Barnsley.

Unconvinced any of them will end up at ER, all media speculaltion imo!
Players aren't exactly going to be queuing up to play under Heckingbottom though. It's not exactly a shock to think he'd raid his old team, Monk signed 3 Swansea players and one ex Swansea.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 63152
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:09 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:56 pm
Players aren't exactly going to be queuing up to play under Heckingbottom though. It's not exactly a shock to think he'd raid his old team, Monk signed 3 Swansea players and one ex Swansea.
Yes I agree managers do raid their old clubs

Difference is Swansea were in the prem where as the tykes are in the bottom three of the championship & could end up in League 1

fred
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 771
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Herisau

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by fred » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:09 am

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:27 pm
Good player, certainly didn't expect him to perform how he has, same with Pearce. Them there's the counter argument, Hecky has had a lot of injuries, but without them would he still he playing the same underperforming players? Lonners, Wiedwald, Berardi, O'Kane etc.
That`s not the point though. Would TC have played them? He didn`t. And?
Did the u23 coach recommend BPF to TC or Heck? If yes, why didn`t TC give him a chance? If no, why didn`t the coach recommend him (considering the dross of Wiedwald and even worse Lonergan a Logical Thing to do, or not)? etc.

My point: those who believe to be infallible experts aren`t that clever when it comes down to concret facts and evaluations. (That`s probably why G. Neville failed as a coach, but can seemingly analyse games and game situations quite well.)

fred
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 771
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Herisau

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by fred » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:19 am

weasel wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:28 pm
From clips people put up from both his time at York and his games for the U23s he certainly didn't do much to impress.

Maybe he had just got a bit disillusioned at not playing for the first team after making his debut a couple of years back. At this point though I would still be unsure as to whether he is good enough to be our no.1 keeper next season but at least he will provide better backup than Lonerghan if we get another keeper.
Strange indeed. Hard to imagine that he wouldn`t give his all in the u23...after all his career more or less depends on how he performs. (Equally if he iss loaned out, if not more so.)
Well, there you go, a lot of not forseeable things on individual and team level. But the self aclaimed experts know all these things of course.
Whatever...I can`t see why BPF shouldn`t be ready for the Nr 1 spot. (Will be interesting to see how handles mistakes he will make in future. A relevant point in regard to being ready for our Nr 1 keeper.) A new keeper must come in anyway as both Wiedwald and Lonergan are rubbish. Doubt that Wiedwald will improve, Lonergan will only get worse.

Norm
Manager
Manager
Posts: 4850
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 2:51 am
Location: SW Missouri USA

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Norm » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:39 am

I keep seeing and hearing that Berardi is suddenly sh*te and wondering what happened to the beast of the right back.
Last season he was being hailed (with Pontus) as one of our fans' favourite and most dependable players.
I remember when someone posted a clip of Pontus and Berardi going hell-for-leather to clear a ball and both being applauded for their commitment and passion.

wtf has changed

Clive
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Clive » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:50 am

1964white wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:09 pm
Yes I agree managers do raid their old clubs

Difference is Swansea were in the prem where as the tykes are in the bottom three of the championship & could end up in League 1
Didn't stop us bringing their bloody manager here!

Why don't you just admit that you prefer Heckingbottom to Christiansen and you're actually glad he's our manager.

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5094
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:42 am

fred wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:09 am
That`s not the point though. Would TC have played them? He didn`t. And?
Did the u23 coach recommend BPF to TC or Heck? If yes, why didn`t TC give him a chance? If no, why didn`t the coach recommend him (considering the dross of Wiedwald and even worse Lonergan a Logical Thing to do, or not)? etc.

My point: those who believe to be infallible experts aren`t that clever when it comes down to concret facts and evaluations. (That`s probably why G. Neville failed as a coach, but can seemingly analyse games and game situations quite well.)
I saw BPF for our u23s and must say i didn't rate him.

Suspect PH played him out of necessity, Lonners was injured and anyone could see by the end Wiedwald's confidence was shot to bits.

Under TC for all the criticism of Wiedwald he had 11 clean sheets in 23 league games, conceded less then 1 goal a game. So i suspect that is why TC never played BPF.

Under Hecky Felix conceded 9 in 5 games with 1 clean sheet.

Can speculate why but for whatever reason Heckingbottom arrival coincided with Wiedwald folding.

Those are concrete facts :)

Dont know who recommended to anyone but i think its literally necessity, we needed a gk and a left back, Anita was poo, De Bock and Berardi were out, Dallas was crap at full back, Hecky had no other choice.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 63152
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:17 am

In other words Hecky takes no credit for the introduction of the three new young players in the first team plus the fact we have looked better defensively conceding only one goal in the last two games (one of them an own goal) :roll:

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6671
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by weasel » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:26 am

fred wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:09 am
That`s not the point though. Would TC have played them? He didn`t. And?
Did the u23 coach recommend BPF to TC or Heck? If yes, why didn`t TC give him a chance? If no, why didn`t the coach recommend him (considering the dross of Wiedwald and even worse Lonergan a Logical Thing to do, or not)? etc.
Don't forget that TC brought O'Shaugnessy in from the youth set-up. started with Eoghan Stokes, from the youth set-up, in the league cup and was regularly picking a player or two from the youth set-up to train with the first team.

As regards the non-selection of BPF it would appear to be more down to the fact TC wanted a ball playing keeper, but similar to Guardiola at City they didn't get the right one in first time. Like CJay says though 11 clean sheets from 23 matches is impressive even if he was sat reading a newspaper in some of those matches.
Senor El Weasel

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6671
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Espana

Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by weasel » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:31 am

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:17 am
In other words Hecky takes no credit for the introduction of the three new young players in the first team plus the fact we have looked better defensively conceding only one goal in the last two games (one of them an own goal) :roll:
That is correct he continued to overlook Pearce, preferring to play right backs and central midfielders rather than him. Played O'Connor only out of neccessity and would likely have picked Lonerghan but for the injury.

Hardly looking great defensively conceding 1 per match in the last 2 matches, conveniently using a 2 game sample size there so you can ignore the 3 conceded v Preston 3 matches ago. Also the keeper winning mom for 5 matches running tells its own story.
Senor El Weasel

Post Reply