January transfer rumours and squad discussion

[whiteswan]

Thanks good to be here

Yes, Welcome Newport

[weasel]

Alfredo Morelos worth a look maybe.

21 year old
Signed for £1m by Rangers in the summer from the same club we got Aapo Halme.

Top scorer in Scotland.

Probably wouldn't cost more then a few million.

Young but already a decent scoring record wherever he has been.

I think we'd be more likely to be trying to find the next Alfredo Morelos and be the club paying the £1m rather than the club paying the 'few million.'

I see us as trying to emulate Monaco's transfer strategy which it to unearth gems for small transfer fees and then flog them for big fees enabling them to re-invest in the next set of gems whilst making continual progress as a club

[whiteswan]

Am I reading that tweet correctly ?

Radz will be discussing with fans in February explaining the reasons for the lack of transfer activity in the January Window

Yes I think you are 64....Whatever happens this window (or doesn't) looks like we'll have to wait until February as to the reasons why.

[Cjay]

I think we'd be more likely to be trying to find the next Alfredo Morelos and be the club paying the £1m rather than the club paying the 'few million.'

I see us as trying to emulate Monaco's transfer strategy which it to unearth gems for small transfer fees and then flog them for big fees enabling them to re-invest in the next set of gems whilst making continual progress as a club

Pretty depressing really.

While i dont want to become a Manchester City.

I also want a bit of ambition, a few million is peanuts these days, for a player who maybe could be worth £10, 15mil in a few months.

Just by signing him we would probably double his value before he kicks a ball.

And that strategy only works at all if you can keep your stars long enough to progress, or you just end up on Groundhog Day.

[whiteswan]

Groundhog Day, you said it Cjay. Been Groundhog day for years at Elland Road...... unfortunately. And at this rate will continue to be so.

[Gandalf]

Leeds battling Cardiff for Boro midfielder Adam Forshaw according to YEP.

[weasel]

Pretty depressing really.

While i dont want to become a Manchester City.

I also want a bit of ambition, a few million is peanuts these days, for a player who maybe could be worth £10, 15mil in a few months.

Just by signing him we would probably double his value before he kicks a ball.

And that strategy only works at all if you can keep your stars long enough to progress, or you just end up on Groundhog Day.

The long term plan with Man City, and Chelsea, though is all about bringing youngsters through that are good enough to make the first team or if not good enough to sell for huge profits to sustain the first team. This then helps the club operate in a sensible financial way and probably actually make money overall as a business. Yes they will still splash the cash on one or two 'galacticos' every season, in the same way Barca and Real Madrid do, but they will recoup that money through merchandising as they have become a huge global brand. Man City have snapped up loads of land around their ground and now have a huge start of the art set up and can attract the best young talent from all over the world.

I think Radrizani is planning that way but without the initial huge outlays on players. I definitely seems like he has a long term plan which is, similar to City, to buy as much land around the club and build a sort of sport city around Elland Road with us attracting the best youth players - as shown already with the calibre of youth players we have signed (even if immediate U23 results aren't great). I think he is laying the foundation, correctly in my opinion, and then at some point we may see a temporary change in transfer strategy to sign some key players to add to a core group to hopefully get us promoted.

Don't forget that he has already identified key components in the playing squad and secured them on long term deals - yes with player power they may ultimately demand to leave but with them being on long contracts we will at least get decent bids for them. I doubt very much that any of us fans would have thought that the club could get Pontus Jannson to extend the deal he signed with us when he joined especially given the interest shown in him during the summer. To be honest how many really even believed PJ would actually sign in the summer? Same with Vieira they gave him a new contract in the summer having identified him as a player who is vital for the club. We seem to not only be laying the foundations in place of the field but actually anchoring in the important foundations in the team.

I don't for one minute think the target this year was promotion - obviously great if it came along but it wasn't vital to the long term plan - we haven't put all our eggs in one basket like Wolves did and whilst it looks like their gamble is paying off you would have to wonder what sanctions for Financial Fair Play they would be given if they don't go up.

We are all guilty of wanting success straightaway but I am more than happy with the progress we are making both on and off the field this season despite obvious setbacks along the way. Remember Howard Wilkinson's 10 year plan which centred around Thorp Arch and the youth set-up producing a bunch of players that would be good enough. Wilkinson was sacked but his 10 year plan worked as despite the shorter term failure of the youth players that won the FA Youth Cup by the time his 10 year plan came around we had a batch of young players that came through and were good enough, the likes of Kewell, Harte, Smith, Woodgate, Robinson etc.

[lufc1304]

Excellent post, weasel

[8ballali]

The long term plan with Man City, and Chelsea, though is all about bringing youngsters through that are good enough to make the first team or if not good enough to sell for huge profits to sustain the first team. This then helps the club operate in a sensible financial way and probably actually make money overall as a business. Yes they will still splash the cash on one or two 'galacticos' every season, in the same way Barca and Real Madrid do, but they will recoup that money through merchandising as they have become a huge global brand. Man City have snapped up loads of land around their ground and now have a huge start of the art set up and can attract the best young talent from all over the world.

I think Radrizani is planning that way but without the initial huge outlays on players. I definitely seems like he has a long term plan which is, similar to City, to buy as much land around the club and build a sort of sport city around Elland Road with us attracting the best youth players - as shown already with the calibre of youth players we have signed (even if immediate U23 results aren't great). I think he is laying the foundation, correctly in my opinion, and then at some point we may see a temporary change in transfer strategy to sign some key players to add to a core group to hopefully get us promoted.

Don't forget that he has already identified key components in the playing squad and secured them on long term deals - yes with player power they may ultimately demand to leave but with them being on long contracts we will at least get decent bids for them. I doubt very much that any of us fans would have thought that the club could get Pontus Jannson to extend the deal he signed with us when he joined especially given the interest shown in him during the summer. To be honest how many really even believed PJ would actually sign in the summer? Same with Vieira they gave him a new contract in the summer having identified him as a player who is vital for the club. We seem to not only be laying the foundations in place of the field but actually anchoring in the important foundations in the team.

I don't for one minute think the target this year was promotion - obviously great if it came along but it wasn't vital to the long term plan - we haven't put all our eggs in one basket like Wolves did and whilst it looks like their gamble is paying off you would have to wonder what sanctions for Financial Fair Play they would be given if they don't go up.

We are all guilty of wanting success straightaway but I am more than happy with the progress we are making both on and off the field this season despite obvious setbacks along the way. Remember Howard Wilkinson's 10 year plan which centred around Thorp Arch and the youth set-up producing a bunch of players that would be good enough. Wilkinson was sacked but his 10 year plan worked as despite the shorter term failure of the youth players that won the FA Youth Cup by the time his 10 year plan came around we had a batch of young players that came through and were good enough, the likes of Kewell, Harte, Smith, Woodgate, Robinson etc.

I rarely read all of a long post, but for you Weasel, I make time. Another excellent post. Do you write for a column somewhere, or a blog?

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

[NorfolkWhite]

Excellent post, weasel

I'll second that - spot on

[Cjay]

1)The long term plan with Man City, and Chelsea, though is all about bringing youngsters through that are good enough to make the first team or if not good enough to sell for huge profits to sustain the first team. This then helps the club operate in a sensible financial way and probably actually make money overall as a business. Yes they will still splash the cash on one or two 'galacticos' every season, in the same way Barca and Real Madrid do, but they will recoup that money through merchandising as they have become a huge global brand. Man City have snapped up loads of land around their ground and now have a huge start of the art set up and can attract the best young talent from all over the world.

2)I think Radrizani is planning that way but without the initial huge outlays on players. I definitely seems like he has a long term plan which is, similar to City, to buy as much land around the club and build a sort of sport city around Elland Road with us attracting the best youth players - as shown already with the calibre of youth players we have signed (even if immediate U23 results aren't great). I think he is laying the foundation, correctly in my opinion, and then at some point we may see a temporary change in transfer strategy to sign some key players to add to a core group to hopefully get us promoted.

3)Don't forget that he has already identified key components in the playing squad and secured them on long term deals - yes with player power they may ultimately demand to leave but with them being on long contracts we will at least get decent bids for them. I doubt very much that any of us fans would have thought that the club could get Pontus Jannson to extend the deal he signed with us when he joined especially given the interest shown in him during the summer. To be honest how many really even believed PJ would actually sign in the summer? Same with Vieira they gave him a new contract in the summer having identified him as a player who is vital for the club. We seem to not only be laying the foundations in place of the field but actually anchoring in the important foundations in the team.

4)I don't for one minute think the target this year was promotion - obviously great if it came along but it wasn't vital to the long term plan - we haven't put all our eggs in one basket like Wolves did and whilst it looks like their gamble is paying off you would have to wonder what sanctions for Financial Fair Play they would be given if they don't go up.

5)We are all guilty of wanting success straightaway but I am more than happy with the progress we are making both on and off the field this season despite obvious setbacks along the way. Remember Howard Wilkinson's 10 year plan which centred around Thorp Arch and the youth set-up producing a bunch of players that would be good enough. Wilkinson was sacked but his 10 year plan worked as despite the shorter term failure of the youth players that won the FA Youth Cup by the time his 10 year plan came around we had a batch of young players that came through and were good enough, the likes of Kewell, Harte, Smith, Woodgate, Robinson etc.

1) Your right, the long term strategy of both clubs was/is to become a huge global brand, which they have both managed. Now they both stockpile talented youngsters which they have been able to attract due to there facilities and wealth, in the hope that down the line they will either become key first team players, or they will be sold on at a healthy profit. They can afford to splash the cash due to the brand that they have become and can afford to take many risks on youth because they have the income to subsidize these things.But, before they started doing these things, investing in youth and the future both clubs were signing established players in order to compete at the highest level, as a consequence they were able to attain a global following. The key to all that was they were successful on the pitch, before they started cherry picking. They wernt signing youngsters for a good few seasons if you go back through there transfer windows, they were signing established stars. That boosted there global appeal, it helped them become successful on the pitch and the success and money making opportunities that come with that allowed them to start building for the future.

2) That does appear to be what he is doing, but thats exactly the opposite of both the clubs that you mentioned, trying to bulid for the future without securing the present. Its an ambitious strategy because we dont have the wealth or the merchandising to subsidize these players while they hopefully progress. If none of them progress, which is entirely possible, thousands dont make if for the one that does, if we have signed these youngsters at the expense of our first team then we will be no further forward in any respect. Nice facilities, and partnerships with academies wont count for anything, because we wont have the appeal to attract the best of the best, they arent going to choose a mid table Championship side to progress there careers no matter how nice its training ground is. While im not pushing for a copy of the Manchester City strategy of the late 2000s, i do think its risky to try copying there strategy of recent seasons straight off the bat.

3) I'm very pleased he signed players like Vieira and Jansson to long term deals, that was an excellent move. But, as we know in this day and age come the summer if someone comes in and offers 10-15million then there probably both off, and then we have to replace them. Like we have had to replace Wood, Taylor etc this season, and havent. The long term deals are an excellent PR move, but thats all they are, they dont mean anything, contracts dont mean anything. So while i appreciate the gesture, and it gets the fans onside, it is just a token gesture. But on the subject of contracts, how many players have we signed to long term contracts who arent worth it and would be very hard to shift, Sacko, O'Kane, etc. I hardly imagine there were a long list of suitors for these 2, why sign them to long term deals? Sacko may have had to be signed, give him a 1 year contract, take it or leave it, O'Kane hadnt done anything since being here to earn a new deal?. Radz knew it would be a good PR move to get some players on long term deals, thats his line of work, but you can have to much of a good thing.

4) I agree there, im sure promotion wasnt the target, but playoffs are. Are you confident we can make the playoffs without investment in the first team? Because, if we dont that amounts to no progress at all on the pitch, then come the summer we have the issues of the above paragraph, and we start again, trying to replace key players. And because of the poor recruitment in the summer we would still have to replace the players we didnt replace last summer this summer, plus the possible problem of finding replacements for the players who may leave this summer. As i said in the 2nd paragraph, its very risky to try building for the future without securing the present, City and Chelsea took care of the now before worrying about the future. I dont like the Wolves strategy, have to say aside from the money i find the Mendes/Fosun thing very dodgy and how it isnt a conflict of interests i dont know. Since Mendes is making money by giving his clients to Fosun, but anyway thats them. I would be mortified actually if we had spent 10-15m on a player, that isnt what i want, we did that before and it started us on the slide to where we have been for the last nearly 15 years. Long term plans are great, but its risky planning for 5 years time when you may find that what you have now goes tits up, and that in itself will impact what you are able to do in the future.

5) I'M a bit young really to remember that, i dont know the whole plan bit, i was a wee lad . But by the time these young lads came through we were already a fairly established Premier League side, times have changed, and as we have seen if the big boys get a sniff of a talent then they snap him up. Its hard enough for established sides like Everton and Southampton to keep there youngsters, in 5 years time if we arent established in the top half of the Premier League then all we will have succeeded in doing is blooding youngsters for the top 4. Im not desperate in any way for promotion (as i said elsewhere), but all i want to see is progress, but both on and off the pitch, off i see it, on, not at the moment.

[weasel]

1) Your right, the long term strategy of both clubs was/is to become a huge global brand, which they have both managed. Now they both stockpile talented youngsters which they have been able to attract due to there facilities and wealth, in the hope that down the line they will either become key first team players, or they will be sold on at a healthy profit. They can afford to splash the cash due to the brand that they have become and can afford to take many risks on youth because they have the income to subsidize these things.But, before they started doing these things, investing in youth and the future both clubs were signing established players in order to compete at the highest level, as a consequence they were able to attain a global following. The key to all that was they were successful on the pitch, before they started cherry picking. They wernt signing youngsters for a good few seasons if you go back through there transfer windows, they were signing established stars. That boosted there global appeal, it helped them become successful on the pitch and the success and money making opportunities that come with that allowed them to start building for the future.

2) That does appear to be what he is doing, but thats exactly the opposite of both the clubs that you mentioned, trying to bulid for the future without securing the present. Its an ambitious strategy because we dont have the wealth or the merchandising to subsidize these players while they hopefully progress. If none of them progress, which is entirely possible, thousands dont make if for the one that does, if we have signed these youngsters at the expense of our first team then we will be no further forward in any respect. Nice facilities, and partnerships with academies wont count for anything, because we wont have the appeal to attract the best of the best, they arent going to choose a mid table Championship side to progress there careers no matter how nice its training ground is. While im not pushing for a copy of the Manchester City strategy of the late 2000s, i do think its risky to try copying there strategy of recent seasons straight off the bat.

3) I'm very pleased he signed players like Vieira and Jansson to long term deals, that was an excellent move. But, as we know in this day and age come the summer if someone comes in and offers 10-15million then there probably both off, and then we have to replace them. Like we have had to replace Wood, Taylor etc this season, and havent. The long term deals are an excellent PR move, but thats all they are, they dont mean anything, contracts dont mean anything. So while i appreciate the gesture, and it gets the fans onside, it is just a token gesture. But on the subject of contracts, how many players have we signed to long term contracts who arent worth it and would be very hard to shift, Sacko, O'Kane, etc. I hardly imagine there were a long list of suitors for these 2, why sign them to long term deals? Sacko may have had to be signed, give him a 1 year contract, take it or leave it, O'Kane hadnt done anything since being here to earn a new deal?. Radz knew it would be a good PR move to get some players on long term deals, thats his line of work, but you can have to much of a good thing.

4) I agree there, im sure promotion wasnt the target, but playoffs are. Are you confident we can make the playoffs without investment in the first team? Because, if we dont that amounts to no progress at all on the pitch, then come the summer we have the issues of the above paragraph, and we start again, trying to replace key players. And because of the poor recruitment in the summer we would still have to replace the players we didnt replace last summer this summer, plus the possible problem of finding replacements for the players who may leave this summer. As i said in the 2nd paragraph, its very risky to try building for the future without securing the present, City and Chelsea took care of the now before worrying about the future. I dont like the Wolves strategy, have to say aside from the money i find the Mendes/Fosun thing very dodgy and how it isnt a conflict of interests i dont know. Since Mendes is making money by giving his clients to Fosun, but anyway thats them. I would be mortified actually if we had spent 10-15m on a player, that isnt what i want, we did that before and it started us on the slide to where we have been for the last nearly 15 years. Long term plans are great, but its risky planning for 5 years time when you may find that what you have now goes tits up, and that in itself will impact what you are able to do in the future.

5) I'M a bit young really to remember that, i dont know the whole plan bit, i was a wee lad . But by the time these young lads came through we were already a fairly established Premier League side, times have changed, and as we have seen if the big boys get a sniff of a talent then they snap him up. Its hard enough for established sides like Everton and Southampton to keep there youngsters, in 5 years time if we arent established in the top half of the Premier League then all we will have succeeded in doing is blooding youngsters for the top 4. Im not desperate in any way for promotion (as i said elsewhere), but all i want to see is progress, but both on and off the pitch, off i see it, on, not at the moment.

I wouldn't disagree in the main however

1 & 2) Man City and Chelsea could do it that way because the money they spent was miniscule compared to their owner's wealth. AR is not in their league, financially, which is why he has to approach it differently. He is obviously cautious and is planning a working model that doesn't simply depend on getting to the premiership and getting the premiership money but that, a little bit like Southampton, can succeed even if the club is outside the premiership for a few years because whilst the first team might be simply treading water everything below that level is getting better and better and at some point will make it to the surface and jet propel the first team - as happened at Southampton where despite selling Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc they were able to achieve back to back promotions and then easily cope back int he premiership. Perhaps the strategy is a mix of many strategies.

3) I would disagree with you there in that it isn't as easy as you make out to get the better players to sign contract extensions these days as agents love the opportunity to run down a contract and get a huge pay day when their client can move for free. Yes okay some of the 'lesser' players have been given contracts too. Yes contract are worthless in terms of player loyalty but it is key to running the club as a good business model as you then at least have some power when it comes to negotiating a transfer fee if they demand to leave. At the very least if they leave then the club has funds to replace them which is vital if we are to keep in line with Financial Fair Play rules as if we recoup £20m for example it means we can spend £20m.

4) I would agree that like you I wouldn't be confident in our chances of making the play-offs without a couple of additions this window. That said reaching the play-offs and actually getting promoted are hugely different things and given our record in play-offs.... I am only guessing here but if we were say sitting in 2nd place then maybe the powers that be might have been a bit bolder. I would disagree with your pessimism over long term planning going tits up as if we don't over commit financially in the short term there is no reason why anything would go wrong. If you take the Ridsdale example we over committed in the short term which effectively ruined any long term plans as we had to sell everything. Ridsdale didn't have the Chelsea/Man City money but tried to spend like we did and if a couple of results had gone differently it might have worked (1 being the Valencia defeat in the Champions League Semi) - AR would appear to be in a similar financial position but like I mentioned earlier appears to be more cautious. Obviously people will say 'well I wasn't saying to do a Ridsdale' but it is easy to get into the trap as any gambler will be able to confirm. You take a little gamble that you can afford but then lose that (i.e. don't get promoted) and you haven't got anywhere so you throw good money after bad and suddenly it snowballs. That can easily happen if say we spent £20m in this window, didn't get promoted and still need to spend another £20m in the summer and then still it doesn't work etc.

5) Interesting that we both mention Southampton. They lost their players before becoming established but their plan was still working. Progress takes time (barring throwing billions at it). I'm sure there will be a time in AR's plan where he does throw a lot more money at the first team but it would appear to be that that time isn't this window. We are a million miles behind not only City and Chelsea but the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Man U etc etc. We can't compete with them financially and as such the only way to compete on the pitch is to have a steady supply of players coming through from our youth set-up and whilst some of those may end up being sold if we re-invest that money wisely there is no reason why we cannot at some point gatecrash the party.

[weasel]

Do you write for a column somewhere, or a blog?

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

No, in fact this is the only Leeds Utd forum I take part in. I just like to try to take a balanced view of things and try to see things from other people's views and why they are acting the way they are. Every owner has their own business plan whether it is Ridsdale, Bates, Cellino, AR so it is just a case really of trying to work out what their strategy is and perhaps I give them all the benefit of the doubt because ultimately they are all only in it to make money and the best way for them to do that is by getting success on the pitch - they just go about it in different ways.

[8ballali]

No, in fact this is the only Leeds Utd forum I take part in. I just like to try to take a balanced view of things and try to see things from other people's views and why they are acting the way they are. Every owner has their own business plan whether it is Ridsdale, Bates, Cellino, AR so it is just a case really of trying to work out what their strategy is and perhaps I give them all the benefit of the doubt because ultimately they are all only in it to make money and the best way for them to do that is by getting success on the pitch - they just go about it in different ways.

If you ever start a blog, please let me know.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

[rab_rant]

According to Sky Sport Forshaw a done deal for 2 mill.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... dlesbrough

[Cjay]

I wouldn't disagree in the main however

1 & 2) Man City and Chelsea could do it that way because the money they spent was miniscule compared to their owner's wealth. AR is not in their league, financially, which is why he has to approach it differently. He is obviously cautious and is planning a working model that doesn't simply depend on getting to the premiership and getting the premiership money but that, a little bit like Southampton, can succeed even if the club is outside the premiership for a few years because whilst the first team might be simply treading water everything below that level is getting better and better and at some point will make it to the surface and jet propel the first team - as happened at Southampton where despite selling Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc they were able to achieve back to back promotions and then easily cope back int he premiership. Perhaps the strategy is a mix of many strategies.

3) I would disagree with you there in that it isn't as easy as you make out to get the better players to sign contract extensions these days as agents love the opportunity to run down a contract and get a huge pay day when their client can move for free. Yes okay some of the 'lesser' players have been given contracts too. Yes contract are worthless in terms of player loyalty but it is key to running the club as a good business model as you then at least have some power when it comes to negotiating a transfer fee if they demand to leave. At the very least if they leave then the club has funds to replace them which is vital if we are to keep in line with Financial Fair Play rules as if we recoup £20m for example it means we can spend £20m.

4) I would agree that like you I wouldn't be confident in our chances of making the play-offs without a couple of additions this window. That said reaching the play-offs and actually getting promoted are hugely different things and given our record in play-offs.... I am only guessing here but if we were say sitting in 2nd place then maybe the powers that be might have been a bit bolder. I would disagree with your pessimism over long term planning going tits up as if we don't over commit financially in the short term there is no reason why anything would go wrong. If you take the Ridsdale example we over committed in the short term which effectively ruined any long term plans as we had to sell everything. Ridsdale didn't have the Chelsea/Man City money but tried to spend like we did and if a couple of results had gone differently it might have worked (1 being the Valencia defeat in the Champions League Semi) - AR would appear to be in a similar financial position but like I mentioned earlier appears to be more cautious. Obviously people will say 'well I wasn't saying to do a Ridsdale' but it is easy to get into the trap as any gambler will be able to confirm. You take a little gamble that you can afford but then lose that (i.e. don't get promoted) and you haven't got anywhere so you throw good money after bad and suddenly it snowballs. That can easily happen if say we spent £20m in this window, didn't get promoted and still need to spend another £20m in the summer and then still it doesn't work etc.

5) Interesting that we both mention Southampton. They lost their players before becoming established but their plan was still working. Progress takes time (barring throwing billions at it). I'm sure there will be a time in AR's plan where he does throw a lot more money at the first team but it would appear to be that that time isn't this window. We are a million miles behind not only City and Chelsea but the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Man U etc etc. We can't compete with them financially and as such the only way to compete on the pitch is to have a steady supply of players coming through from our youth set-up and whilst some of those may end up being sold if we re-invest that money wisely there is no reason why we cannot at some point gatecrash the party.

1,2). Thats probably right, i get the feeling this is a project from Radz's point of view and perhaps he is building for the future more then the present because in the future he hopes to attract more investors? He owns us through an investment company, and with him making the club more attractive, investing in the academy, planning to build new facilities and purchasing Elland Road, giving us more assets, and hopefully better assets. Perhaps this is him laying the ground work, then next season, the season after we will see who it is that Radz has in the background, that may be when we see a bit more investment in the 1st team side of things. While its frustrating as a fan at times, especially given our history of tight owners, a club ran on a budget with good ground work is more likely to tempt investors to part with there cash then a club splashing the cash willy nilly. I always have believed that Radz was just the front man, he lays the groundwork, but there is major money behind him, so hopefully this is just stage 1 of this project.

3) Its not easy, and they deserve credit for convincing the key players to sign, however Pontus did have quite some time left on his deal so he wasnt close to running down, although Ronnie V would have been out of contract at the end of next season. It puts us in a strong bargaining position, but i still maintain that especially in the case of Pontus it was more about PR then the actual contract. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

4) There is very little chance of promotion with our current squad as we all agree on i think. As i said before i dont feel like we must get promoted, i can wait im happy to do that. But, i do want to see progress on the pitch, even if it is just 1 place up, and im not sure even that will happen, and for me that then amounts to a wasted season. If this season we finish below the playoffs then we will have not improved at all on the pitch, forgetting the rest because to most fans thats what counts.And your correct, and so is Radz to an extent, it is better to under commit financially then over commit, we have tried to over commit before and look what happened. However, if you under commit to much you end up being a mid table lower league side for almost twenty years, we have had a history of under financing the 1st team and selling of the best we have. We are on a tight budget, and the worry is Victor Orta at present and at Boro had a very poor success rate, Boro had Premier League money, so he could afford to waste a bit of cash. We dont have that luxury, we dont have the money to be taking hopeful punts all the time on Grot, Cibicki, Lassie, Klich,Sacko, etc. Concerning bit for me is if we waste the Wood and Taylor money (which we seem to be doing) then we will have to sell a Saiz or a Jansson or a Vieira next summer just to try and fund a further push. And thats the same cycle we have been in for the last decade and a half.

5) I cant ever see us being more then a mid table Premier League side at best anyways, hence why i am not all that bothered about promotion. Southampton have done well, but even there strategy has limits, and that limit is mid table obscurity.To break into the top 6 we would need established players, big money in all likelihood, plus you have your young lads coming through. We shall see what happens.

[weasel]

The main hope is that we have a huge advantage over the likes of Southampton as we have footholds all over the world in terms of fan base and whilst it will have dwindled over the years it is still a sleeping giant that can be tapped into for both merchandising and tv deals which can in theory propel us closer to the big teams. Even with those though we are at a disadvantage as they are already established which makes it more key that we can do better than them at producing our own players.

Realistically the way AR is doing things is probably the only realistic way we have of competing unless we have a multi-billionaire investor lurking somewhere. Even Man City, despite all their money, know that they have to make up for their inferior global brand (especially compared to Man U) by being able to make money and/or produce their own players as with FFP they cannot simply have owners pumping the money in (albeit by them sponsoring the club at a vastly inflated cost instead of simply buying players).

[8ballali]

Heard that Italian sky sports claim we've put an offer in for Moise Kean. On loan for rest of season.

[Cjay]

Heard that Italian sky sports claim we've put an offer in for Moise Kean. On loan for rest of season.

Be amazed if we pull this off . . .

Hadnt heard of him when first linked, asked about, watched a few videos.

Can see why we would want him

Not everything he does comes off, but he has that fearlessness of youth

[The Subhuman]

Reminds me a lot of Sacko ...Same sort of run fast/fall over/run out of ideas type of player