Paul Heckingbottom

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SG90
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by SG90 »

fred wrote: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:53 pm Now that is some serious nonsense. Agree?
And who do you believe should `apologize`?
Radz apologised for appointing TC. I think he needs to do a lot more than that for appointing Heck.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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Much hate as Orta gets I'd rather he was in charge of the purse strings then Hecky.

Look at Barnsley . . Thats HIS squad.

He thought Alex Mowett was Championship quality.

He spent officially £5.75mil in the summer.

Brentford spent £5.49m.

So cant use lack of funds as an excuse.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Clive »

SG90 wrote: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:59 pm Radz apologised for appointing TC. I think he needs to do a lot more than that for appointing Heck.
I would suggest giving every season ticket holder 500 grand.

500 grand is obviously loose change to him if he can spend it on a loser like Heckingbottom.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred »

SG90 wrote: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:59 pm Radz apologised for appointing TC. I think he needs to do a lot more than that for appointing Heck.
O.k., yes I get your point. But that`s part of being a football manger I guess. You never now how long
you will have a Job.
In regard to TC: I think that he has done himself justice, he got out of the team what they were
more or less capable of. And he said, that he could hold his head high. He`ll find a new club, no
doubt about that. He`s young, motivated, thrives on pressure.

But let`s not forget that these guys are mostly seriously priviledged. No money problems, earning
enough to be without a job for x years or even the rest of their lifes.
And coaches know that these are the conditions they must work and live with.

But I agree: TC shouldn`t have been sacked. He probably would have learned, would have improved.
Him being sacked, although we were on a very bad run of results (the Newport defeat cost him his
Job I believe), and he clearly made some rather poor decisions now and then, wasn`t justified by hoping we may reach the play-offs by changing the manager as such.
Radz/Orta said Christansens appointement had been a mistake and APOLOGIZED for that mistake !!!!!!!!!!!!
For that alone TC deserves an aoplogy, because he wasn`t by far a
failure (=mistake.)
Just shows that Radz/Orta are quite clueless or are talking BS they don`t believe in themseves, but use to
put the blame on someone else, distracting from their own really questionable actions. (Not saying Radz/Orta are
only bad, but in regard to the team/squad they must take some responsibility, all the more if our Budget is rather limited.)
I will judge Radz on how much he is prepard to invest this summer. There`s no way he can talk about
about Promotion challenge without bringing in at least 2-3 Players who will be in the prize range of
probably 6-8 million.
Relying on the youngsters alone is not enough. And if we fail next season too, the better players will probably
want to leave. (Not sure if they will all stay for next season...)

Conclusion: we are in a right mess at the moment, the future is not forseeable, so hope fot the best,
and prepare for the worst. :)

Will be back when we play Barnsley...given the situation of both clubs: a huge game!!!
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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fred wrote: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:35 pm No, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We differ in our opinion which managars we believe to have achieved what could have been asked from them.
But: I don`t say I`m for or against sacking Heck as such. But if he`s sacked then he MUST be replaced by a foseable better manager.
Heck as had time to evaluate the squad, so he will have more insight than a new manager coming in.
So if heis sacked then please not 2 weeks into the summer break.
The best Chance for him getting sacked soon, would be a poor performance against Barnsley...that could stir some serious s**t up.
The fans wouldn`t take it well, nor the men in charge.

In regard to Heck: you are convinced you know that he`s useless. You may be right, but I couldn`t say that I know what he`s really capable of given time and some new players he wants to get in.
The managers mentioned were with a high probability useless (Darko..come on, the guy had a dismal record and couldhardly speak English; Rösler had enough time to prove he was living in dream land; The Hock was the anti-hero and a joke as was Warnock...the latter had success at most clubs, but not with us...pur coincidence? And Monk kept our hopes to reach the play-offs very long alive, although, just as in the last x seasons, we fell apart towards the end of the season. He seems to have had a positive impact at Birmingham by the way.)

No problem with your evaluations, but don`t try to suggest I want certain things to happen without mentioning the conditions under which I would want such to happen.
You talk a lot of sense Fred contrary to what others may think !
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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Cjay wrote: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:11 pm
He thought Alex Mowett was Championship quality
Don't know what he was thinking there, the Tykes soon shipped him Mowatt out on loan though
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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I still refuse blame the managers for the demise of our club, the problems lye much deeper than that.

The fans on the terraces are aiming the blame at the right culprits

Apart from BPF, O'Connor & Pearce there is no light at the end of the tunnel right now. Our more experienced players have let us down big-time, many of them are not good or fit enough to wear the white shirt of Leeds
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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Quite a few things i dont understand.

Leon you say that those in the stands are aiming there fury at the right people not Heckingbottom.

They booed TC and it was there reaction that played a large part in getting TC sacked.

But apparently Hecky should be allowed to bring in his own players.

Effectively getting a free pass over 16 games.

If the fans believe the squad isnt good enough and it isnt Paul's fault then why were they calling for TC to be sacked?

Makes no sense.

TC as others said never had us as low, this far off the playoffs, this poor a goal difference.

Yet he was at fault with the same players minus Forshaw and the same setup.

Hecky though is absolved of all blame and deserves a chance next season.

Despite Hecky having shown nothing in his time in this league to suggest he is anything but Relegation fodder as a manager.

29 games and 3 wins, over 50% with His Players at Barnsley who since he left have improved.

There manager has done better with Hecky's squad then Hecky did.

So what that means is 2 different managers this season have been in charge of the same sets of players as Heckingbottom and both have got more points.

Doesnt that suggest that no matter opinions on squads if 2 managers can do better then him then maybe Hecky isnt much good and those wishing him to stay and have time are doing that more to validate there anger at Orta and Radz then they are genuine faith in Heckingbottom.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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Did TC get booed Cjay ?

I recall the players being booed off the pitch a few times

Btw I'm not a boo-boy personally
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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1964white wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:23 pm Did TC get booed Cjay ?

I recall the players being booed off the pitch a few times

Btw I'm not a boo-boy personally
I definitely heard a chant of "you dont know what ya doing".

But what baffles me is why Hecky deserves a chance?

He's had a chance, 13 games.

If we were willing to right off this season (as saying Hecky deserves next season suggests).

Why sack TC at all?

Dont think i could bare a season of Heckingbottom and his clichés.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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I've said before, but there is a feel of xenophobia about it all. TC would be out the door already if he had started this badly and would still be in a job if he was English. I blame the media, because they're the ones pushing this narrative that Heck is good and TC deserved the sack.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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SG90 wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:07 pm I've said before, but there is a feel of xenophobia about it all. TC would be out the door already if he had started this badly and would still be in a job if he was English. I blame the media, because they're the ones pushing this narrative that Heck is good and TC deserved the sack.
You may have a point unfortunately.

Lot of English managers with average records yet there "talented young coaches".

Based on what?

Hecky has 8 wins in 50 or something ridiculous.

Rowett has a Championship win percent of 40% ish

Lee Johnson similar.

Its not particularly spectacular.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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Cjay wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:19 pm You may have a point unfortunately.

Lot of English managers with average records yet there "talented young coaches".

Based on what?

Hecky has 8 wins in 50 or something ridiculous.

Rowett has a Championship win percent of 40% ish

Lee Johnson similar.

Its not particularly spectacular.
10 wins from 63 :poo: It will be unfair when he gets the boot though. :roll:

Look how much stick Ipswich are getting for getting rid of Mick McCarthy. I'm sure their fans know far more than the media do.

Idiots like Merson and Soccer Saturday saying "you need an English manager who knows the league" and all this nonsense. Last two Championship winners have been foreign.

The sad thing is TC was rubbished as being from Cyprus when he came, no one mentioned he was ex Barcelona/Cruyff, managed in the UCL and Europa League etc. Yet Heck has great pedigree as he won the JPT, give me a break.

Graham Potter is a great English manager, but his CV is no better than TC's.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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SG90 wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:25 pm 10 wins from 63 :poo: It will be unfair when he gets the boot though. :roll:

Look how much stick Ipswich are getting for getting rid of Mick McCarthy. I'm sure their fans know far more than the media do.

Idiots like Merson and Soccer Saturday saying "you need an English manager who knows the league" and all this nonsense. Last two Championship winners have been foreign.

The sad thing is TC was rubbished as being from Cyprus when he came, no one mentioned he was ex Barcelona/Cruyff, managed in the UCL and Europa League etc. Yet Heck has great pedigree as he won the JPT, give me a break.

Graham Potter is a great English manager, but his CV is no better than TC's.
As you say makes no sense.

Best Championship manager imo right now is Slav Jokanovic at Fulham.

Then there was Oscar Garcia at Brighton.

Rafa Benitez at Newcastle.

David Wagner at Huddersfield.

Nuno at Wolves

Ok Rafa and Nuno probably had pretty easy jobs based on players.

But then further back Jean Tigana at Fulham.

Aitor Karanka at Boro.

All of them had as good or better Championship records then practically any English manager.

On the whole there teams were better to watch.

Hecky, Johnson, Monk, Rowett, none of them have made the playoffs, all of the above did at a minimum
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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Jokanovic finished 21st in his first season and Wagner finished 19th, they were allowed time to build. TC was 10th, far better than both. Joke of a decision to get rid, especially as we were trying to get the u23s and first team playing the same style.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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I bet Hecky is incredibly dull giving teams talks.

"Fight for 2nd balls"
"Show passion"
"Ger stuck in"
"You are where you deserve to be"


His press conferences are boring as well.
"We know where we wanna be"
"We deserve where we are"
"We are working hard for next season"
"Individual errors cost us"
"I'm learning every game"
"We are working hard"
"I've been learning for 13 games, next season be better, just ask Barnsley, i can win 8 games if given a chance".

There's also the Brian Clough thing.

He came in as a successful coach, told the players "throw your medals away", and that was that for him.

Hecky has come in as a loser, a man in a relegation battle. Told the players who have been in the top 6 most of the season "your not good enough", thats effectively what he has said.

Why would those players fight for him at all?

In any walk off life a manager comes in with a worse record then your previous manager then tells YOU your not good enough.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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You could just imagine Saiz, Pablo and co's reaction when he was unveiled to them. A collection of scratched heads and "who". Then the grinning idiot AK would have been spouting nonsense about his "great record" of 1 win in 16 games and how much of a coup he was. :lol:
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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SG90 wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:21 pm Jokanovic finished 21st in his first season and Wagner finished 19th, they were allowed time to build. TC was 10th, far better than both. Joke of a decision to get rid, especially as we were trying to get the u23s and first team playing the same style.
Thing is SG we wouldn't have finished 10th even if Christiansen had remained at Leeds. We were in our second rut of the season going nowhere with us only gaining two boring 0-0 draws in TC's last seven matches.

I said to my mates as we came out of St Andrews after our abysmal loss at the end of December.

"That's it our season is over"

We were that bad.....how right I was :P
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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1964white wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:54 pm Thing is SG we wouldn't have finished 10th even if Christiansen had remained at Leeds. We were in our second rut of the season going nowhere with us only gaining two boring 0-0 draws in TC's last seven matches.

I said to my mates as we came out of St Andrews after our abysmal loss at the end of December.

"That's it our season is over"

We were that bad.....how right I was :P
So why can't TC use the Saiz ban excuse like Heck can or the red cards? No way would TC have us down in 14th. As bad as things got under him, 7 defeats in 9, we were never lower than 10th or had a negative goal difference.
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Re: Paul Heckingbottom

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SG90 wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:13 pm So why can't TC use the Saiz ban excuse like Heck can or the red cards? No way would TC have us down in 14th. As bad as things got under him, 7 defeats in 9, we were never lower than 10th or had a negative goal difference.
I just think the current managerial Leeds job is a thankless task

I've watched these players jog aimlessly around the pitch for much of the season

They can't pass or cross a ball, can't tackle can't defend, cant shoot or score goals, rarely press the opposition, errors all over the park in far too many games, poor attitude & discipline, the most soft-bellied Leeds squad I've witnessed in six decades

So far this season we've used these numbers in positions

3 x keepers
4 x RB's
6 x LB's
7 x CB's
5 x DM's
6 x RW
4 x AM
4 x LW
4 x STR

Says it all how poor our players are.....average/inconsistent, can't hold their place in the team hence no continuity
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