Sacrifice Who?

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Cjay
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Sacrifice Who?

Post by Cjay » Thu May 30, 2019 5:31 pm

So given what we know for a fact someone will be sold this summer, 100%, well probably a few will but at least 1 player will go for a larger fee, maybe 2, but at least 1.

If ( when) it comes down to it who should it be? Just 1 player of 4.

It seems to be the same 4 players who are being talked about.

Kalvin Phillips
Jack Clarke
Kemar Roofe
Pontus Jansson

Of those 4 it seems certain at least one will go, their are arguments for and against all 4.

Kalvin Phillips
Against

He is our only defensive midfielder.
He is the most popular player of the 4 (not that the other 3 are unpopular) but Phillips seems to be maybe behind Pablo the most popular member of the squad with the fans.
He has improved greatly in a role he had never played before until Bielsa arrived.
He is only 23 and has years left before he reaches his prime.
He is a player Bielsa clearly rates greatly.

For
He would probably command the highest fee, giving us the most money to reinvest.
He isnt perfect in that role, replacing him is possible (by that i mean value wise you could probably find a player at Phillips level for a lot less money abroad if you looked).
He may privately want to leave, he wouldn't be the first of our academy kids to feel that way after a good season.
He may regress so sell well his value is high.

Jack Clarke
Against
I think he is the most naturally gifted youth player we have had since Harry Kewell.
He showed last season at just 17/18 that he could make a difference against the big sides (against both playoff finalists actually), after a full pre season and some rest whose to say he cant do better then that next season.
We havent got many wingers, why weaken an area of the squad thats already weak.
Tottenham have an eye for talent, if Tottenham see something in him that should tell us he should be kept and developed.
I think in this day and age we should be looking for close to £20mil, i dont think Radz would and even if he did, just like Milner, Lennon, Cook, Delph,Rose, what we receive may look really daft in the not to distant future and getting sick of that.

For
He is of the 4 the one whose first 11 place is the least guaranteed and therefore may cause the least disruption.
A big fan but even i admit Jack hasnt looked the same since the Boro incident, maybe that will be the case forever.
£15-20mil is a lot of money for a largely untried 18 year old, if Radz does insist on the top end of that valuation that wouldn't be the worst deal financially speaking at the time.
He may want to leave, turning down the money and status at Spurs would be very hard for a teenager.

Kemar Roofe
Against
He has been our top scorer for the last 2 seasons.
We only have two forwards, why weaken an area thats not already that strong.
He fits the system very well (better then Paddy)
Of the 4 he would probably bring in the least money.
Had an injury hit season, maybe without injuries he would score 20 goals.
Bielsa clearly rates him.

For
His contract situation, he wants parity with the top earners (30-40k) not sure he has done enough to justify that and apparently the club arent either.
He has never scored 20 league goals during a season at any EFL level which is what we need.
He may want to leave, 27 during next season, prime years for a striker, maybe he wants to go to a higher level if that chance arrives.
Every week that passes his value goes down and down because of his contract situation, can we afford to risk losing him for nothing.

Pontus Jansson
Against
He is our best cb by a mile, no question about that, head and shoulders above any other cb we have.
He is one of the most popular players with the fans.
He is one of the top cbs in the league and any side would suffer losing a player of that quality.
We only have 3 senior cbs, why sell the best of the 3 rather then the 2 less talented ones?
Unlike the other 3 Jansson has been one of our best performers every season he has been here.

For
His personality causes concern, at times it seems to be the Pontus Jansson show.
He may be a bit unpredictable for Bielsa and there are rumours of a clash with Bielsa (just rumours but even so).
He may want to leave and if we want to cash in now may be the time as he isnt getting any younger.
Similar to all 4 really, could we not find a replacement of equal or better quality if we shopped abroad for a lot less money.

So, if it has to be one of those 4 who should it be?

Just 1 of the 4 for now.

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by SaraM » Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 pm

Clarke is the only one we would be likely able to afford to replace with better. Losing any of the others would weaken the squad. The one I want to lose the least is Roofe.

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by weasel » Thu May 30, 2019 6:32 pm

It all really depends on Bielsa's viewpoint.

If his priority is a new striker then it makes no sense to give Roofe a new contract on higher wages.

If he values the hard work and defensive attributes of a winger as much as the attacking threat then it may be that Clarke is only seen as an impact sub. If the whole balance of the side is not going to work with Clarke as a starter then can we really turn down decent money for a player that doesn't really fit the system. Clarke hasn't really looked like he is capable of a great forward run and then be able to help out defensively moments later.

Considering that Bielsa converted Phillips to play DM when he had no previous experience leads me to think could Bielsa do it with another player, possibly one that has more attributes beneficial to the position. If for example we could get £15m for Phillips and simply promote someone from the youth set-up then it would seem a logical decision to cash in and use the money on other positions. Similarly if you think how much KP would have been worth last summer then Bielsa/Orta may well have spotted someone similar that could be bought cheaply.

Lastly we come to PJ and he is the best centreback at the club. But he was the best centreback at the start of last season but Bielsa preferred to pick Berardi and Cooper. Similarly for the most important match of the season Bielsa didn't play PJ - was he fit, nobody has really said whether he was fit to play Derby or not in the second leg. If Bielsa doesn't want him then it makes sense to cash in.
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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by andrewjohnsmith » Thu May 30, 2019 7:12 pm

Nice statement from Pontus today saying that he wants to stay. I think Leeds would only let him go if he makes some noise about leaving. So I'm pretty sure we can cross him off.

I think with Bielsa staying, Clarke and Philips wont want to leave either. The only question remains as to whether Leeds want to cash in on Clarke. And that's a possibility. Hes not a guaranteed starter for next season, but I'd really like to see us keep him.

As for Roofe it all depends on the contract. If he doesn't extend, we need to cash in. I'd hate to lose him too. He seems a better Bielsa fit than Bamford. Hopefully he signs a contract. But if he doesn't we have to sell him.
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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by herefordbornleedsboy » Thu May 30, 2019 7:21 pm

I know it isnt the point of the thread. But how about we make a massive statement of intent and don't sell anyone that we don't to?
Get rid of the deadwood and that should see us through surely?
Given we have lost Browns extravagant wages from our payroll? Once we clear out 10 or so of our loaned out players permanently money saved.

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by 1964white » Thu May 30, 2019 7:35 pm

herefordbornleedsboy wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 7:21 pm
I know it isnt the point of the thread. But how about we make a massive statement of intent and don't sell anyone that we don't to?
Get rid of the deadwood and that should see us through surely?
Given we have lost Browns extravagant wages from our payroll? Once we clear out 10 or so of our loaned out players permanently money saved.
My thinking too HB

What is the point in selling your best players, we should be making additional quality signings.

Surely Bielsa knows Pontus is a better CB than Cooper & Berardi, one still can't make a poor Scotland squad, the other once again showed what a liability he is v Derby at ER. Both are squad players imo!

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by paddy parrott » Thu May 30, 2019 7:57 pm

Ah ! That conundrum of how many ..? players needed or not wanted.
We want all above to remain ..why of course .
Practicality speaking some will go that's football.
The essence should be of those to come in ..2/3 or even more will hopefully be Bielsa's chosen few .Its Quality we deserve and a sort to hit the new season full on.

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by herefordbornleedsboy » Thu May 30, 2019 9:02 pm

paddy parrott wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 7:57 pm
Ah ! That conundrum of how many ..? players needed or not wanted.
We want all above to remain ..why of course .
Practicality speaking some will go that's football.
The essence should be of those to come in ..2/3 or even more will hopefully be Bielsa's chosen few .Its Quality we deserve and a sort to hit the new season full on.
Think the thing is, we are coming into the season with the most stability than we have managed over the last few seasons! Why risk upsetting that by losing key players?
The only way i would accept it happily is if they go early and we have a replacement in at the start of pre season. Otherwise why would we bother? What is £10-£15million compared tp £170million?

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by danhirons » Thu May 30, 2019 9:16 pm

If we get anywhere near 20 million for Jack Clarke (after two decent performances and a handful of underwhelming ones) it would be an amazing piece of business. As it stands I think we'd accept just over 10 for him and, personally, I think that's a ridiculously high fee for someone with such little playing time! I'd be very happy with 10 plus for him and since he hardly featured last season would hardly affect the balance of the side for the coming season

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by faaip » Thu May 30, 2019 10:03 pm

we could sacrifice Shaun Harvey, that might break the curse..Go full wicker man type thing
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by faaip » Thu May 30, 2019 10:04 pm

Wait..... have I got the wrong end of the stick
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by andrewjohnsmith » Thu May 30, 2019 10:18 pm

danhirons wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:16 pm
If we get anywhere near 20 million for Jack Clarke (after two decent performances and a handful of underwhelming ones) it would be an amazing piece of business. As it stands I think we'd accept just over 10 for him and, personally, I think that's a ridiculously high fee for someone with such little playing time! I'd be very happy with 10 plus for him and since he hardly featured last season would hardly affect the balance of the side for the coming season
There's definitely a point where you can't say no. He could be the next Kewell or he could come down with another mystery illness. If we were in the PL, I'd say no way sell. But for a promotion season hes a bit of a luxury. I hate to lose our youngsters but I'd sell him for 10 mill.
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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by Cjay » Thu May 30, 2019 10:46 pm

Personally I'd loathe to lose Jack Clarke, especially if Jack Harrison is loaned back, that seems counterproductive as i think offensively Clarke is far more useful and "trying hard" isnt really something we lack out wide, Dallas tries hard, Ayling tries hard, Ali tries hard.

If Clarke goes what sort of threat do we have out wide? Pablo is 34/35 now, Harrison has shown glimpses but considering his game time his actual impact on games wasnt good enough.

Love to see what MB could do with Clarke and Shacks for that matter with a full pre season.

Helping City develop one of their own (who they wanted £20mil for) and paying for the pleasure in part by selling one of ours doesn't sit well with me :(

Dont like straight loans anyway unless the player is an exceptional talent (Abraham, Wilson, Barnes etc), selling Clarke for that calibre would be sore but ok.

But Harrison isnt that level and personally think he is less useful then Clarke anyway so using Clarke to help get Harrison back at all would seem like a backwards step.

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by SG90 » Thu May 30, 2019 11:06 pm

In order of preference:
Roofe - contract situation.
Phillips - could get gigantic fee, still parts of his game needed to improve - convinced we have good options there if we sell.
Pontus - want to keep, but at 28 he might want to play at a higher level.
Clarke - must keep. His value will sky rocket.
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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by Gurj » Fri May 31, 2019 8:00 am

In an ideal world we wouldnt want to release any of our stars but past history tells us we tend to release one a year.

So based on what I saw this season, who we could let go with least disruption to the team, and size of fee, I would have to reluctantly say Jack Clarke. If we could get £15m for him, it would incredible given he had so little game time. KP and Pontus are vital to us and Roofe is without doubt the best striker we have at present.
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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by Cjay » Fri May 31, 2019 6:27 pm

Roofe demanding parity with Bamford YEP confirm (30k a week is the lowest that will be).

Its a no from me, the last striker we were willing to give that sort of pay rise was Chris Wood and he earned it.

Bamford hasnt looked worthy of his big contract but Roofe hasnt been good enough to demand such a large one either imo.

£15-18k seems fair.

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by liggy » Fri May 31, 2019 6:31 pm

Faithless insomnia
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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by wilsdenwhite » Fri May 31, 2019 6:55 pm

I'd also hate to lose Clarke at this stage. I think the figures been talked about are way over the mark to be honest. 15/20 million? No way. Yes he played some great stuff last term but lets face it and if the rumours are true, Spurs & Pochettino would have to be pretty dam sure about Clarke and his ability as well as future development prospects to spend that kind of dosh on him after the season he had with it's ups and downs. Also then if Pochettino sees something special in Clarke then Bielsa would have seen it too so at least that would see us get the right price if not a little more if we did decide to sell him. I don't think we'd be getting a raw deal either way. If someone offered 15 million we take it and reinvest. I'd be happy with 10 mill to be honest but I'd be even more happy if he and Shackleton just stay put. There's no better place for them at this stage of their careers.

Lewis Cook had shown much much more than Clarke has shown so far by the time Bournemouth came knocking and we ended up letting him go for 6.5 rising to 10 with the add-ons. Now that was a bitter pill to swallow.

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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by faaip » Fri May 31, 2019 10:59 pm

Roofe at 30K would be a bargain, top championship striker on a par with Bamford who's not as good would be fair imo. You put together all the you tube highlight reels of the best champioship srikers ..show them to someone who hasn't got a clue who any of them are and Roofe would be the one picked out..stunning goals all season, works harder than most, creates a ton of space with outstanding movement, top football IQ and really quick feet..

I bet his 3 cone would be stunningly good
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Re: Sacrifice Who?

Post by faaip » Fri May 31, 2019 11:03 pm

What other 25 goal plus striker are you going to sign for 30K per week and zero in transfer fees.
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