One Dimensional Attack

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Cjay
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One Dimensional Attack

Post by Cjay » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:05 pm

Seems an odd thing to say i know since we have the 2nd best attack.

But we have actually scored 1 goal or less in 9 games.

Our style is very exciting.

We use clever movement and quick passing, we hope our movement will take advantage of the spaces created by the quick passing and carve out chances.

Or we use the overload in the wide areas and put in early crosses hoping to use the movement of our forward players to take advantage.

Our attacks rely on space and overload that we create.

However that becomes very difficult if the opposition wont fall into traps and allow space.

If the opposition allow us to have the ball in unthreatening areas and maintain a good defensive shape then we really are stumped.

Today they allowed Phillips, Cooper, Jansson, and Forshaw to have the ball in our half, they didnt really press them and thus the middle of the pitch was congested and there wasnt room for the quick pass and move.

However when BPF had a goal kick they did press high and forced us to kick long, which is not our game, we arent suited to that.

If the opposition sit deep and narrow then its very difficult for the style to work.

There isnt room for the quick passes and movement and similarly the intelligent but physically inferior attackers we have are unlikely to find the space to win headers from crosses that rely on movement rather then a physical edge.

Not just for us but even teams like Manchester City and Barcelona struggle at times.

Neither of those teams have the sort of physical attackers who you can just pump crosses to or goal kicks, so they to have to rely on there passing and movement.

But they have world class players who can find those eye of the needle passes, they have strikers like Suarez and Aguero who can find that tiny bit of space that only the best can.

We dont, we try, we really try and we have only not scored in 1 game and have shown great character at times and perseverance.

But our 2 strikers fit at the moment are very similar.

Kemar Roofe and Tyler Roberts.

There intelligent with good feet and movement, but there not physical, there not powerful, they both suit our style but at the same time they limit our options imo.

We cant pump the ball into the box at will, we cant lump it forward for them to hold up when necessary. They will try and create space and find space and they do it well.

But in games where teams sit back and dont allow space then its very difficult for them.

We dont really have any other option but pass and move.

We dont have that target man that traditional Bielsa sides had.

We dont have that bit of pace and trickery that Bilbao or Chile or Marseille had.

We could really do with something a bit different imo.

Its unfortunate we lost Bamford because while he isnt a target man he is a bit more physical then Roberts and Roofe.

We could do with someone like Llorente imo, that big physical attacker who in tight games we can call on to give us that focal point, that physical threat to play off.

We could do with a player with a bit of pace and trickery, someone who will just run at a side thats sitting deep and maintaining its shape, that will create space and will automatically drap players out of position.

Its fine passing and moving but without the best of the best its very hard to break teams down who are well drilled and refuse to fall into the traps we set.

Think how important the physical presence of Mitrovic was to Fulham and even Newcastle at times when they won the league.

The strength of Leo Bonatini for Wolves or Glenn Murray for Brighton.

Having a more physical option doesnt mean you have to be like Boro it just gives you a different dimension.

Do we think we could do with a different way?

A different type of player sometimes?

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by weasel » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:19 am

The thing is we are what we are and although we have good players they aren't going to have all the attributes that would be ideal. Roofe is a decent striker but he doesn't have express pace, he isn't a 6ft plus targetman etc and as such some matches will suit him and some won't. Playing with just 1 striker does mean however that to get one player with all the requisite attributes is going to cost a lot of money (or getting lucky probably with a cheap foreign gamble). Playing with 2 strikers gives a team more balance as they could have one striker that is pacy and one that is a targetman.

All around the pitch we have good players but not players that have everything. Man City go around paying £50m for a centreback who can defend and play, we can't so we have to make do. Arguably we looked better at playing out from the back when Berardi was playing instead of Pontus, arguably it could be said Clarke could be a better winger than Alioski but can he do the defensive work and non stop running that Alioski does?

It means we are limited. We get into positions to cross but is there much point throwing a cross into the box and expecting Roofe to beat 2 centrebacks and the keeper to the ball? So instead we do have to almost try to walk the ball into the net and that is hard. We are like a locksmith trying to prise open a lock but at times we are armed with a screwdriver and paperclip instead of the necessary tools. Sometimes we can open the lock but a lot of the times we are left frustrated and don't have the option of a sledgehammer on the bench.

Instead of criticising our players we need to support them, all of them, as they, with Bielsa's help, are trying to get the most out of their ability and some are playing better than any of us thought they could - however training can only make so much difference and we are also only a few months in. Perhaps like last season we got our hopes up too quickly, thought we were better than we were, last season we weren't as good as TC's early table topping side and equally we weren't as bad as the team in freefall at the end of TC's reign or the whole of PH's reign. I don't know where this season will take us but I hope that if things do go wrong the board doesn't panic like they did last season. Even if this season tails off I firmly believe that a full season under Bielsa followed by a summer where the same manager is going to start the next season will see us far stronger next season as we will have a manger dictating transfer policies having worked with the squad for a full season and knowing what changes need to be made rather than just trying to analyse from watching videos of the players from the previous season when they played in different formations and under different managers.
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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by Cjay » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:48 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:19 am
The thing is we are what we are and although we have good players they aren't going to have all the attributes that would be ideal. Roofe is a decent striker but he doesn't have express pace, he isn't a 6ft plus targetman etc and as such some matches will suit him and some won't. Playing with just 1 striker does mean however that to get one player with all the requisite attributes is going to cost a lot of money (or getting lucky probably with a cheap foreign gamble). Playing with 2 strikers gives a team more balance as they could have one striker that is pacy and one that is a targetman.

All around the pitch we have good players but not players that have everything. Man City go around paying £50m for a centreback who can defend and play, we can't so we have to make do. Arguably we looked better at playing out from the back when Berardi was playing instead of Pontus, arguably it could be said Clarke could be a better winger than Alioski but can he do the defensive work and non stop running that Alioski does?

It means we are limited. We get into positions to cross but is there much point throwing a cross into the box and expecting Roofe to beat 2 centrebacks and the keeper to the ball? So instead we do have to almost try to walk the ball into the net and that is hard. We are like a locksmith trying to prise open a lock but at times we are armed with a screwdriver and paperclip instead of the necessary tools. Sometimes we can open the lock but a lot of the times we are left frustrated and don't have the option of a sledgehammer on the bench.

Instead of criticising our players we need to support them, all of them, as they, with Bielsa's help, are trying to get the most out of their ability and some are playing better than any of us thought they could - however training can only make so much difference and we are also only a few months in. Perhaps like last season we got our hopes up too quickly, thought we were better than we were, last season we weren't as good as TC's early table topping side and equally we weren't as bad as the team in freefall at the end of TC's reign or the whole of PH's reign. I don't know where this season will take us but I hope that if things do go wrong the board doesn't panic like they did last season. Even if this season tails off I firmly believe that a full season under Bielsa followed by a summer where the same manager is going to start the next season will see us far stronger next season as we will have a manger dictating transfer policies having worked with the squad for a full season and knowing what changes need to be made rather than just trying to analyse from watching videos of the players from the previous season when they played in different formations and under different managers.
Its very difficult at this level to play the way we play, the players deserve great credit for the majority of the season so far.

As you allude to we cant build the squad that we probably need ideally, so we are having to make do with players that probably shouldn't be so prominent.

The lock opening bit is good, its sort of what i mean, we do lack that bit of quality that the top teams have when they come up against well organised sides.

I dont think Bielsa is a god, i wouldn't say we are squad wise any more then mid table in all honesty. So to achieve what he has with what he has is brilliant.

But you can see the lack of real quality at times, in the goalie, in the final pass, in some of our sloppy play. Bielsa cant do anything about that, thats down to the players limitations.

Dont think we are miles away from top 6.

As a team i think we play the best football and until yesterday we had comfortably the best goal difference. But i do think offensively we are to limited in what we can do to open that door.

We are always looking for the perfect goal, rarely shoot from range, we are in danger of becoming what has been wrong with Arsenal in the final years under Wenger. With the aamount of possession we have ae shoul be scoring more, and yet its that possession that probably hinders us because we lack that final bit of quality ti open a packed defence. That something a bit different.

Ideally that would be corrected in January but its unlikely.

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by faaip » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:51 pm

That's a boy band isn't it..One Dimensional?
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by weasel » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:01 pm

Without coming down on Roofe it may be that Bamford can make us better. I haven't seen enough of Bamford but it may be he is a bit better than Roofe in the air, maybe a bit quicker. I could be wrong though as I haven't seen enough of Bamford to really judge. That said it was an investment of £7m to £10m for possibly only a slight upgrade and to get someone either great in the air or really fast is probably going to cost double what Bamford did.

Like you I don't think top 6 is beyond, I don't even think automatic promotion is beyond us but we need to be getting 110% out of the team every week and with the right team picked. This team is better than the 11 players picked if it works as a team and I don't think we have really looked like a fully functioning team for a while.
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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by faaip » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:30 pm

Roofe is very good in the air though...size has little to do with aerial ability. Chris Wood couldn't get 6 inches off the floor most of the time.
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by weasel » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:41 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:30 pm
Roofe is very good in the air though...size has little to do with aerial ability. Chris Wood couldn't get 6 inches off the floor most of the time.
Roofe does well in the air for someone his size. He won't win many headers unless the cross is pinpoint if he is going against 2 6ft+ defenders and a keeper, likewise won't win flick ons. That is factual and doesn't detract from his qualities but it does mean we have to play to his strengths when we are attacking. Roofe, for me, would do better if he had a strike partner alongside him as it would give him more space but it doesn't seem that a 2 man front line is an option (even when chasing games as we have seen with Bielsa's like for like substitutions rather than throwing an extra attacker on for a defender).
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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by dezzy » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:01 pm

My head hurts....
I realised I was dyslexic when I went to a toga party dressed as a goat..

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by paddy parrott » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:03 pm

Could it be the reason that we have too many like for like among the squad players. He plays a game that is not uniquely offensive nowadays but for Championship has proven
to be problematic as we found out yesterday. Interestingly he did draft in a young defender v BROM but persisted with attackers.

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by Cjay » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:22 pm

Watching the Manchester derby and was interesting to see the clear similarities between us and City.

Walker and Mendy pushing on to create overloads.
Fernandinho in the Phillips Role.
Bernardo Silva in the Klich role
Silva sort of Saiz role.
Mahrez and Sterling wide
Aguero through the middle.

United sitting back City patiently passing side to side players moving around to try and find space and draw United out etc.

City rarely crossing but when they do its low and hard.

It was clear to see Pep is influenced by Bielsa and they come up against the same issues as us.

Teams sitting back trying to maintain a good shape and not leave gaps etc.

But City have such quality that it they manage to get through.

Think what Paddy said is right, we have to many of the same sort of player.

Its hard enough for City to make it work with the talent they have.

Its asking a lot for Championship players to do it without a bit of something different at times.

We dont have that.

Maybe Edmondson, Clarke?

Bit of height and pace and trickery?

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by paddy parrott » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:34 pm

City maybe a template sort off but regrettably so they're a law into themselves with multi millions of Abu Dhabi bank notes.
We know they abuse FIFA rulesie pay their fines and move on literally. That's my take anyway ie look at the gulf in spending power for example.Fir the rest to play catch up is insurmountable really.

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by leic white 63 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:56 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:22 pm
Watching the Manchester derby and was interesting to see the clear similarities between us and City.

Walker and Mendy pushing on to create overloads.
Fernandinho in the Phillips Role.
Bernardo Silva in the Klich role
Silva sort of Saiz role.
Mahrez and Sterling wide
Aguero through the middle.

United sitting back City patiently passing side to side players moving around to try and find space and draw United out etc.

City rarely crossing but when they do its low and hard.

It was clear to see Pep is influenced by Bielsa and they come up against the same issues as us.

Teams sitting back trying to maintain a good shape and not leave gaps etc.

But City have such quality that it they manage to get through.

Think what Paddy said is right, we have to many of the same sort of player.

Its hard enough for City to make it work with the talent they have.

Its asking a lot for Championship players to do it without a bit of something different at times.

We dont have that.

Maybe Edmondson, Clarke?

Bit of height and pace and trickery?
you need sectioning :)

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by 1964white » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:05 pm

leic white 63 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:56 pm
you need sectioning :)
:rol: :rol:

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by Cjay » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:11 pm

leic white 63 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:56 pm
you need sectioning :)
Crazy like a fox :)

Turn you all into Ali fans and you won't even know it :twisted:

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Re: One Dimensional Attack

Post by paddy parrott » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:21 pm

We all remember the Fantastic Mr. Fox mate . A hero to many fool to the few!

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