The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:26 am



Good Morning. It's Thursday 10th October, and here are the Leeds Utd headlines...


Should Leeds fans be worried about Bielsa contingency plan?

A host of national papers are reporting that Leeds are keeping tabs on Steven Gerrard to succeed Bielsa, should the Argentine leave the club!

His current deal expires at the end of this season so if United do not go up this time around, he is widely expected to leave.

An Elland Road insider has also claimed that had Bielsa left the club in the Summer, Gerrard would be their number one target!

Is this just a contingency plan or do the club know something that we don't?





Ex Leeds Chief Football Writer - Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

According to Phil Hay, Leeds are happy with their start to the season, so much so that Bielsa has given his players time off over the International break. That will at least give them time to recharge their batteries, ready for the Brum match in nine days time.

What should worry us, is that the ex chief football writer for the YEP has told Leeds fans to expect to be living on the edge, in their pursuit for automatic promotion!

Is there any other way where Leeds are concerned?





Bielsa has big plans for Struijk, Noel Whelan

Noel Whelan has been discussing Pascal Struijk, and his chances of breaking into the first team this season. The central defender has caught the eye of the gaffer after standing out for the U23's this season.

At 6 foot 3in, he would certainly provide valuable assistance both defending and attacking set pieces!

Struijk is highly thought of by Bielsa and his staff, he is one option for the bench. Marcelo Bielsa tends to go for the more experienced players rather than the young ones in defence.

I would expect to see Luke Ayling move across to centre-back if Ben White or Berard were unavailable. But, then you’re looking at Struijk.

With the inevitable injuries and suspensions over the winter months, I would expect to see Struijk getting a go at some point. It seems Bielsa has big plans for him.


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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by Chilli D » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:57 am

Morning All,

It remains to be seen whether there is anything in the Steven Gerrard story.
Hopefully we get promoted, Bielsa stays and that's the end of it for the time being at least.

If Pascal Strujik is as highly thought of a Whelan makes out, why does MB insist on playing Beradi/Ayling/Phillips at CB whenever we have an injury?
It's the square pegs in round holes scenario again.
At the very least he should be on the bench until Cooper returns but I doubt he will be.
Sooner or later we need to find out whether the likes of him, Gotts, Bogusz etc are up to championship standard or not.
I still think our best LB from a defensive point of view is Davis but he finds himself well down the pecking order.
Bielsa has his squad of 18 players who he uses week in week out barring injuries and that is unlikely to change.
I think we just have to accept that is how it's going to be, this nucleus of players will either get us promoted or not.
Staying hopeful (for now)
Chilli

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by 1964white » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:18 am

Chilli D wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:57 am
Morning All,

It remains to be seen whether there is anything in the Steven Gerrard story.
Hopefully we get promoted, Bielsa stays and that's the end of it for the time being at least.

If Pascal Strujik is as highly thought of a Whelan makes out, why does MB insist on playing Beradi/Ayling/Phillips at CB whenever we have an injury?
It's the square pegs in round holes scenario again.
At the very least he should be on the bench until Cooper returns but I doubt he will be.
Sooner or later we need to find out whether the likes of him, Gotts, Bogusz etc are up to championship standard or not.
I still think our best LB from a defensive point of view is Davis but he finds himself well down the pecking order.
Bielsa has his squad of 18 players who he uses week in week out barring injuries and that is unlikely to change.
I think we just have to accept that is how it's going to be, this nucleus of players will either get us promoted or not.
Staying hopeful (for now)
Chilli
Can't disagree with much of your post Chilli, all good points I keep making. I've started to sound like a broken record tbh

What's the point in placing so much emphasis on our U23's squad over the last three years if the majority are not good enough in Bielsa's mind ?

I really detest this continuous square pegs in round holes situation, it plainly doesn't work FFS

We can't afford to p*ss about in this tough competitive league, we need to do the right things or else we'll shoot ourselves in the foot again :chair:

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by BGwhite » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:01 am

The only definate thing about keeping an 18 man squad is that the development players will see there career stagnating and with no real chance of breaking into the first team under Bielsa they'll want out even if it means going to a smaller club in order to get first team football such as those who went to Barnsley and tbh I wouldn't blame them. I really think that MB is jeopardising our promotion chances by playing players out of position particularly within defence when we have very good replacements in the PDL. As previously mentioned MB will have no idea if the reserves are good enough unless they play.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by faaip » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:41 am

But, and this is the key point, Bielsa doesn't see this as square pegs in round holes. He demands his players playmultiple positions and if you follow that to it's logical conclusion then he's just playing his best and most experienced 11, however that lines up and the only consideration is fitness.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by Irish Ian » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:55 am

I think faaips and bgs posts describe both sides of the case well .

All I want to say on it was look at our last game of the season.

The biggest game of the season and we had 5 players on the bench who only had a handful of games between them.
To recap.

Bogusz
Gotts
Clarke
Struijk
Brown
Bailey P
Jansson.

What impact did we expect these lads to make when we need to turn to them?

The 18 player system will not work or a 50 game season.

Bielsa is wrong to insist on it. At the minute he is expecting most of our players to be dual rolled. That is too many.
"We can wait for the next game with serenity"

"I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it"


Marcelo Bielsa.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by 1964white » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:04 pm

faaip wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:41 am
But, and this is the key point, Bielsa doesn't see this as square pegs in round holes. He demands his players playmultiple positions and if you follow that to it's logical conclusion then he's just playing his best and most experienced 11, however that lines up and the only consideration is fitness.
It would seem beyond our first eleven to fourteen players the rest of the squad is not good enough.

Take key players out of our first eleven & we'll continue to drop crucial points as we did at Charlton & Millwall

This small squad idea without a 25 goals a season striker will no doubt comeback to haunt us again.

We are playing in the championship a demanding league consisting of 46 games a season not a mickey-mouse 2nd tier European league where they play around 30 games a season.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by 1964white » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:08 pm

Irish Ian wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:55 am
I think faaips and bgs posts describe both sides of the case well .

All I want to say on it was look at our last game of the season.

The biggest game of the season and we had 5 players on the bench who only had a handful of games between them.
To recap.

Bogusz
Gotts
Clarke
Struijk
Brown
Bailey P
Jansson.

What impact did we expect these lads to make when we need to turn to them?

The 18 player system will not work or a 50 game season.

Bielsa is wrong to insist on it. At the minute he is expecting most of our players to be dual rolled. That is too many.
Marcelo still thinks he is managing in Spain/Argentina/Chile where the concept of football is totally different to the EFL

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by Irish Ian » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:18 pm

1964white wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:04 pm
It would seem beyond our first eleven to fourteen players the rest of the squad is not good enough.

Take key players out of our first eleven & we'll continue to drop crucial points as we did at Charlton & Millwall

This small squad idea without a 25 goals a season striker will no doubt comeback to haunt us again.

We are playing in the championship a demanding league consisting of 46 games a season not a mickey-mouse 2nd tier European league where they play around 30 games a season.
Hi Chief,

Spot on. I think the pressure we put ourselves under from being so profligate in front of goal just magnifys the weaknesses elsewhere in the team. As we tend to turn to the squad players to work miracles after our star players fail.
"We can wait for the next game with serenity"

"I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it"


Marcelo Bielsa.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by Chilli D » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:37 pm

[
faaip wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:41 am
But, and this is the key point, Bielsa doesn't see this as square pegs in round holes. He demands his players playmultiple positions and if you follow that to it's logical conclusion then he's just playing his best and most experienced 11, however that lines up and the only consideration is fitness.
That's the problem.
Very few players are comfortable in more than one position but they are never going to say "gaffer I don't feel comfortable playing there, there are others who can do a better job" for fear of losing their place.
So they willingly accept being moved to an unfavoured position to keep their place.
I doubt Stuart Dallas had ever played CM before in his life but he got put there to accommodate Ayling.
Interesting to see what happens next game if Forshaw is fit.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by weasel » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:12 pm

The flip side is having too many players creates discontent no matter at what level as players want to play. All this nonsense about players not being able to play in 2 positions is ridiculous, yes they might have a preferred position but that doesn't mean they can't play other positions to a reasonable degree - although I will accept going from right back to central midfield isn't a normal occurrence! Especially if you are training the way Bielsa has them training with all the interchanging then you will get to know how other positions are expected to play.

I think Bielsa is right to have the 18 man first team squad as you can't name more than that on a match day. Then if one of the 18 is injured a youngster takes that place and if they get the chance, like Shackleton did, they have to grab it.

All this moaning about the youths that have left well the ones who went to Barnsley have hardly set the world alight as their manager has just been sacked. Halme seems to be starting in a defence that has conceded the joint most goals and are conceding at an average of 2 goals per game. Wilkes is a forward player and they have scored less than any other team in the championship. Odour seems to either be an unused sub or not even in the 18 so it doesn't look like he is a world beater just yet considering how poor Barnsley's results have been.

All the doom and gloom and you would think we were bottom of the table. Instead we are in the promotion mix and been playing some great football. Yes a few problems but nowhere near as bad as outsiders would think if they read this forum.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by faaip » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:26 pm

1964white wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:04 pm
It would seem beyond our first eleven to fourteen players the rest of the squad is not good enough.

Take key players out of our first eleven & we'll continue to drop crucial points as we did at Charlton & Millwall

This small squad idea without a 25 goals a season striker will no doubt comeback to haunt us again.

We are playing in the championship a demanding league consisting of 46 games a season not a mickey-mouse 2nd tier European league where they play around 30 games a season.
No I don't think I'm saying that at all...Lets take CB - Cooper is our captain, has to start when available. White is our best CD has to start if available...Beradi is number 3 on Bielsa's list, if there's an issue he'll slot in at CB as he would at RB if Dallas and Ayling aren't available. Bielsa sees Berardi as a footballing CB first, full back second. 4th on MB's list is Phillips, he's been converting Kalvin to sweeper/CB since he arrived, he's ahead of Struijk in the depth chart right now and MB would prefer Phillips who is proven in the system to start as he can cover his position with Forshaw or Klich without much downgrade, if any, in his and to be honest my, eyes..

I think MB thinks Struijk would be perfectly acceptable at CB if he's forced to go that way but we've had no need (and again this is in MB system) to go that deep anywhere on the pitch yet..

Now we can debate all day whether MB should rotate more but the simple fact is he doesn't believe that himself..Nothing to do with the quality under the starters, just that the starters play week in week out in whichever position is needed...and whenever available..
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by BGwhite » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:30 pm

I am not moaning about players leaving to go to other clubs , that is their prerogative, neither was I suggesting that leeds would miss their talent . What I am saying is that if a player feels that his career is being wasted away in the reserves without even a sniff of appearing for the first team then its only natural he will want to go elsewhere if that club guarantees that he'll be in the first team squad but whether he turns out to be a world beater is another question. I wouldn't want to stagnate in the pdl and if any footballer has high hopes neither will they.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by faaip » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Irish Ian wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:18 pm
Hi Chief,

Spot on. I think the pressure we put ourselves under from being so profligate in front of goal just magnifys the weaknesses elsewhere in the team. As we tend to turn to the squad players to work miracles after our star players fail.
We're playing a centre forward who's been one of our best players recently and everyone loves...You tend to find that teams who's striker is not scoring struggle for goals as the pressure to score moves to them, plus the striker is not scaring defenders so they can focus on the earlier threat...Roofe not only was scoring at a decent pace for us but scared defenders shitless with his movement and speed...

No one seemingly wants Bamford dropped (apart form me probably), MB won't entertain that idea anyway so while he starts we get a hard working player that needs balls played to feet but lacks pace and seldom threatens the penalty spot when crosses are available...Wingers are looking up and seeing little in the way of outlet in the box most of the time..There's no one there..Which kinda makes wingers a little redundant while Bamford starts..
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by weasel » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:15 pm

BGwhite wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:30 pm
I am not moaning about players leaving to go to other clubs , that is their prerogative, neither was I suggesting that leeds would miss their talent . What I am saying is that if a player feels that his career is being wasted away in the reserves without even a sniff of appearing for the first team then its only natural he will want to go elsewhere if that club guarantees that he'll be in the first team squad but whether he turns out to be a world beater is another question. I wouldn't want to stagnate in the pdl and if any footballer has high hopes neither will they.

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Either way it becomes tricky. If you take say the right back position and even if you took Dallas out of the equation then you'd have 2 specialist right backs, Ayling and Berardi, but only 1 can play. So having players not able to play in other positions could mean one of Berardi or Ayling sat on the bench all season if the other player doesn't get injured. Well that player won't be happy and will want to leave. So having that player able to play a different position lessens the chance of him not playing at all. Now yes that can be at the expense of the youngster coming through - say a natural centreback if Berardi plays centreback - but either way creates a problem.

When judging how ready youngsters are it is tricky. They may look good at U23s but that is glorified friendlies in all honesty. Are they ready to play in a physical league? Noel Whelan has been banging the drum about Halme and saying we should have kept him and had him to replace the injured Cooper. Now seemingly he was next in line but obviously Bielsa wasn't convinced and that is probably the case with a lot of our youngsters who may not be either good enough or ready yet.

I think with youngsters they are more likely to stick around longer even if not playing than established players would. Fergie did it very well with the likes of Nicky Butt and Phil Neville (and various others) who weren't quite good enough for his first team but could fill in on occasion and because they were home grown they didn't seem to cause problems when they weren't in the team. Eventually they left to go to lesser clubs to play more often but then hardly set the world alight. I think if the youngsters are really special they will break through like Clarke and Shackleton did last season and Leif Davis is obviously knocking on the door too.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:32 pm

1964white wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:08 pm
Marcelo still thinks he is managing in Spain/Argentina/Chile where the concept of football is totally different to the EFL
I'd agree with that

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm

Ladies and Gentlemen

Is it time we update the Breakfast debate logo?

If someone was looking at it for the first time, would they realise what it was?

We could incorporate the Mot Forum emblem into it?

Any ideas

Anyone any good at artwork?

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by weasel » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:43 pm

Maybe turn the fried egg into the yorkshire rose badge we used to have
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 10th October) Leeds look like living on the edge again this season!

Post by 1964white » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:13 pm

Ellandback1 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm
Ladies and Gentlemen

Is it time we update the Breakfast debate logo?

If someone was looking at it for the first time, would they realise what it was?

We could incorporate the Mot Forum emblem into it?

Any ideas

Anyone any good at artwork?
Haven't got a artistic bone in me Matt

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