The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

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The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:56 am



Good Morning. It's Wednesday 4th December, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Whelan claims Orta has three potential January targets

Noel Whelan has claimed Victor Orta is looking at three potential Leeds United signings in January, but any signings will depend on whether Eddie Nketiah and Jack Clarke stay at Elland Road in January.

We still need to strengthen in January. I hope Victor Orta is looking and I’m hearing whispers that he is. We need another striker, especially if Arsenal recall Nketiah, another goalkeeper if Kiko Casilla gets a long ban and possibly another centre-back.

I think Orta is looking at three January signings, although whether we would sign three is another matter. We have enough midfielders and wide men, and Marcelo Bielsa has lots of options in those positions. When you look at the heart of defence and up front, those will be Orta’s priorities.




Just 13 changes to the starting line up since the beginning of the season may lead to burnout

Bielsa has made the fewest changes to his starting XI's of any Championship side this season, The 64yo Argentine has made just thirteen changes to his starting line up since the beginning of the season, and nine of these changes were forced upon him because of injury.

Here are a list of his changes Bielsa has made to the starting line ups with the player on the left being introduced to the starting XI.

Alioski - Douglas Injury
Berardi - Cooper Injury
Cooper -Berardi
Shackleton -Forshaw Injury
Costa - Hernandez Injury
Ayling - Cooper Injury
Berardi - Shackleton Injury
Cooper -Berardi
Roberts - Alioski Injury
Berardi - Cooper Injury
Hernandez - Costa
Cooper - Berardi
Costa - Roberts Injury

With the season less than half way through the importance of squad rotation is not top of the agenda, but what happens in February / March when the players start to get burnt out, like they did (imo) last season.

Will the lack of squad rotation come back and bite Leeds on the ass! Do you believe it was because of burnout that the Whites missed out on Promotion last season.


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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by danhirons » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:23 am

we were ten points ahead of sheffield last christmas - burnout or total implosion, we know that we can't read too much into our position at these early stages of the season. For me it must take its toll on the players...

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by Ratscoot » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:55 am

Rumours about transfers start to become boring, I’ve stopped reading about who we are or aren’t in for

Burn out could become an issue and definitely was last season
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by HarryofOz » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:09 am

Ratscoot wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:55 am
Rumours about transfers start to become boring, I’ve stopped reading about who we are or aren’t in for

Hear hear, especially as those spreading the rumours have something different to say every day

One moment we won't be signing, then we will be, then we may be, and then the cycle starts again. And when we are in a will or might sign stage, the potential target is always different.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:12 am

Ratscoot wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:55 am
Rumours about transfers start to become boring, I’ve stopped reading about who we are or aren’t in for

Burn out could become an issue and definitely was last season
Very interesting that you agree that Leeds suffered burn out in the second half of last season.

The issue is very divided.

To my way of thinking Leeds definately suffered over the last 15 games, and whether you call it fatigue, burn out or what ever, Leeds suffered.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by paddy parrott » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:32 am

In my opinion not so burnout though a perfect example of a team Imploding. In actual fact what I saw was only that and in 45 minutes too. The Plan B wasnt in our armoury and the dreaded Red mist once more encamped overall .Ironic really because Beisla had firmly brushed up on that front.
We couldn't handle real pressure and that is tremendously ramped up at Elland Road.
But that was then this is we all want to be so much different.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by rrfierce » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:46 am

I think the turning point last season was spygate and the failed Dan James signing. Add a touch of fatigue and players injured/not performing and you have the perfect implosion/bottle lost of a club.

Its at the back of everyones minds and until we put it firmly to bed and get promoted it will always be possible.

Lets hope nothing derails are push for promotion be it kiko's ban or eddie going back to arsenal or another club.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:58 am

rrfierce wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:46 am
I think the turning point last season was spygate and the failed Dan James signing. Add a touch of fatigue and players injured/not performing and you have the perfect implosion/bottle lost of a club.

Its at the back of everyones minds and until we put it firmly to bed and get promoted it will always be possible.

Lets hope nothing derails are push for promotion be it kiko's ban or eddie going back to arsenal or another club.
Watching Hernandez in the play offs last season was really sad. He looked like he was playing in a 'legends' game.

Once Leeds knew they were were heading for the play offs, Leeds should have made 8 or 9 changes (for last 3 games)

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by 60sUnited » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:03 am

Having watched West Brom, Fulham, Brentford etc, I dont see that we employ any more of a high press tactic than they do this season and their mobility doesn't seem any less than ours, so I don't now worry about burn out, it really comes down to the ability of the players to take the pressure games in their stride and not crack as we did last season.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by 1964white » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:05 am

Bielsa's first season in probably the most demanding league he's managed in.
Poor summer transfer window
Lack of an inspired signing in January.
Dodgy defence.
No 25 a season goalscorer.
Fillers on the bench.
Lack of quality.
Lack of togetherness.
Fatigue.
Naivety.

All conspired against us !

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by rrfierce » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:08 am

1964white wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:05 am
Bielsa's first season in probably the most demanding league he's managed in.
Poor summer transfer window
Lack of an inspired signing in January.
Dodgy defence.
No 25 a season goalscorer.
Fillers on the bench.
Lack of quality.
Fatigue.
Naivety.

All conspired against us !
Do you think we've learnt from those mistakes? Will the same ones be repeated?

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by Irish Ian » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:25 am

Morning folks.

Last seasons debacle was the culmination of calamities imo. All of contributed to Wigan and after that.

Spygate

Injury crisis and a small injury prone squad. We know why it is small but why are these guys injury prone?

Genetics, training and tactics- MBs fluid system requires not only a high level of football intelligence but high levels of fitness and technique. Are our lads truly up to all three without these hamstring, abdominal strains and twists?

Game pressure created due to awful strikerste. How many games last season had we the points wrapped up by the 80th minute? Off the top of my head I reckon 6. The rest the anxiety levels were through the roof as we either hung in or scrambled for that late score.

So can some of these things be improved?

Swap Spygate for the expected Kikogate.

Dunno...

Transfers. Yes we will probably bring in some kids... btw what happened to the two Real Madrid lads?

Finally I did look at the player stats for Norwich and Blunts fir last season. Overall they didnt use that many more players than us. But they rotated them more.
Last edited by Irish Ian on Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by mothbanquet » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:26 am

Some of you seem to be employing hindsight in it's purest form. All these things would have been a concern to a team gunning for promotion form the off but that wasn't the case when Bielsa first came in. They became incidental issues once the reality of our position and how good Bielsa made us became apparent. The reality is at the start of last season, if we'd been offered playoffs we'd have bitten the proverbial hand off, so whining about what was done wrong is utterly pointless.

We've done so much to improve this season without compromising the immutable aspects of Bielsa's philosophy (small squad, for example) and our stats prove it. Reeling out a list of what you believe last season's mistakes were, without context or counter-points (anything to do with finances or plain disagreement with Bielsa' managerial decisions are not mistakes, simply conjecture) don't mean a thing while we're performing better than before.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by 1964white » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:35 am

rrfierce wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:08 am
Do you think we've learnt from those mistakes? Will the same ones be repeated?
Yes I think Marcelo has learnt a lot from last season, the championship was a learning curve for the great man

The signings of White, Costa & Nketiah were excellent acquisitions in the summer.

White & Kiko have significantly tightened up our defence. Also Dallas has done a fine job defensively this season.

Kiko has better communication with his defenders where he is left to play the final defender now without any interference from others around him. Casilla controls his box & more or less up to the halfway line when required. I've counted at least half a dozen times where Kiko has prevented one-on-one situations due to his quick reactions.

More quality on the bench.

More togetherness in the current squad

Whether we show a little ambition in the January window is the next hurdle to overcome

Still not having a prolific goalscorer is a major concern for me

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by YorkshireSquare » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:50 am

I dont think we 'burned out' last season, the stats still show we had as much posession and chances as we always did.

For whatever reason we lost it mentally in games like Wigan and Derby.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by Chilli D » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:52 am

Morning All,

Proffesional footballers have all aspects of their fitness levels monitored to within an inch of their lives these days and their levels are checked on a regular basis (almost daily I would suggest) so burnout is an easy excuse to use when things went wrong (Liam Cooper said it during pre season).
If players were feeling tired and unable to perform at the required level they should have said so. But which player is ever going to admit that and risk losing their place?

What is more likely is that the weight of expectation got to a group of players who had never been in that situation before and they failed to cope with it.
Look at the second play off game against Derby. We were totally in control until the Kiko/Cooper fiasco and then we just capitulated. Derby never looked like scoring until that point. There was no evidence of burnout at that late stage of the season.

Despite us being less flamboyant this season we are a much more complete squad who right now look like they know how to get the job done.
It's virtually the same squad as last season but we now have a keeper who is full of confidence and the best CB in the league (for a season anyway).
A raft on injuries to key players rather than burnout is the most likely issue to derail us.

Chilli

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by mothbanquet » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:08 pm

1964white wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:35 am
Whether we show a little ambition in the January window is the next hurdle to overcome
I was shot down in the summer for suggesting that some of the leftover cash that folk deduced wasn't spent then might be being saved for January... :roll:

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by mothbanquet » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:11 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:50 am
For whatever reason we lost it mentally in games like Wigan and Derby.
This was exactly it. After Wigan went down to 10 men and Bamford scored, you saw the switch flick off. Complacency and arrogance led to them being caught completely off-guard, torn a new one by Reece James and they weren't the same after that. They started to fear other teams. Fear is infectious.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by Cjay » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:00 pm

January.

Noel knows no more then the rest of us i would imagine. I dont (sadly) expect us to have learned from last season and without investment i can see January being a non event.

Rotation.

I do think MB needs to rotate more, i see the logic in keeping the same team but i think a lack of rotation did hinder last season.

However, i see mental fatigue and mental weakness as the bigger issue. Pure panic set in last season, Coops epitomised it in the playoffs.

I worry more about the the amount of players who lack that mental strength more then physical, thats something you either have or havent, its that that separates the winning teams from the nearly teams.

A lot of our players have been in sides that have failed to cope with the pressure, Coops, Dallas, Ayling, Berardi etc.

I dont know if they have that mental strength and that is what i worry about more then burnout.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 4th December) Alarming statistic Leeds won't want to replicate this season

Post by rab_rant » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:43 pm

If the press say you are suffering from Burnout then
you begin to think you are suffering from burnout.
We are all open to auto-suggestion, and i would say
that it is the fans that are suffering from burnout.
Media burnout.

The terraces are seething with stress and tension... last year
our team was in an automatic promotion place and we loose
a game and the analysis begins... it's spygate, it's injuries,
it's suspensions, it's failures in the transfer market, it's lack
of investment... the list goes on and on, and each and everyone
sounds very reasonable and plausible.

Nobody ever says it is the fans to blame. Imagine 35.000 fans
standing with dread in their hearts, feeling that once again
their dreams are slipping through their fingers. Imagine
the blood running cold in their veins and the sinking feeling
in the pit of their stomachs, but what ensues is self induced
mass hysteria... which is a phenomenon that transmits collective
illusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through the Leeds
fanbase. They listen to rumours of Nketiah leaving, or have fears that
Kiko will be suspended for 12 matches, and a dark cloud of
hopelessness descends and dulls the minds and judgement of the fans.
When bitter failure finally happens we explain it all away by saying it
is all a conspiracy against our beloved Leeds United. How else could we loose?

Remember the movie the Green Mile when in the prison there is a black
man who has a swarm of flies coming out of his mouth. That is what it is like
on the terraces, and the pubs, and the bulletin boards, and on social media.
Poisonous speech that pollutes. We shout in each others faces and pollute
each others minds. We become hysterical. We lack vision, and without vision
the people perish.

I have a vision of thousands of mouths opening at ER and swarms of flies
like a black mist invading the pitch and engulfing the players so they become
lost in a fog and numb. Yes that is what induces a crisis of confidence, and that
is what saps our strength and crates a loosing mentality. That negative spark
that arcs from the mouths of the fans to the hearts of the players

Call what I have written mystical hippy shite, but if we are to fail once again
then it will be the fans to blame and nobody else.
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