RIP To those departed

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
Boo Radley
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:18 pm

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Boo Radley »

White Riot wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:36 pm
Shame he tarnished himself with England supporters, including me, with the hand of God incident.

Great players shouldn't need to cheat like that.

RIP and thanks for the memories Diego.
People forget that the hand of God incident was only four years after the Falklands War and that game was driven on a nationalistic fervour for the Argentine players. Each of them would have thrown their grannies at Shilton to get that ball over the line. The biggest pressure was on Maradona, and he became a national hero for it.

He was actually highly regarded for not cheating throughout his career. He was kicked around every pitch he played on, but he got up and played everyone doing this thuggery off the pitch.

Ronaldo would either have given up at twenty or won Oscars if he was subjected to a fraction of the punishment Maradona got.
User avatar
BobHirst
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: Texas

Re: RIP To those departed

Post by BobHirst »

1964white wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:41 pm The hand of God

60yo is no age

RIP
60 in Maradona years = 90 (at least) in a normal persons life.

RIP one of the best ever.
User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 36562
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by faaip »

White Riot wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:36 pm Wow, Maradona dead.

I know he's had health issues for a long time, but it's still a shocker.

An amazing talent who lived life to the full and brought passion and entertainment on the pitch.

Probably the second greatest for me, as Cruyff is still the player who takes my breath away when I watch film of him playing.

Shame he tarnished himself with England supporters, including me, with the hand of God incident.

Great players shouldn't need to cheat like that.

RIP and thanks for the memories Diego.
TBH what with his addictions and weight explosions I thought he was already dead. I love Cryuff, no one like him before or since..
Honey dipped flim flam
User avatar
Carrick Dave
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:46 pm

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Carrick Dave »

faaip wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:54 pm Best #3, not his fault he was Irish..
So....care to rephrase that? :evil:
User avatar
Muppet the Cat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5200
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 9:42 pm
Location: Cardiff

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Muppet the Cat »

Without question one of the greatest players ever, although it is unlikely there will never been agreement as to is considered to be the numero uno, GOAT.

Although a somewhat flawed character in later life he almost single handed delivered the World Cup for Argentina in 1986 and two Siere A titles for Napoli in the mid/lates 1980’s...........an incredible talent.

RIP Maradona


(My wife came in after work and said have you heard Madonna has died :roll: )
User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 36562
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by faaip »

Carrick Dave wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:27 pm So....care to rephrase that? :evil:
Not really, you know I mean he had to play for Northern Ireland who were never likely to threaten a word cup win....It's the main argument for George Best not being one of the greats. Probably better than Maradona in my opinion
Honey dipped flim flam
User avatar
Fridge
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 1130
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:13 am

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Fridge »

RIP Maradona




White Riot wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:36 pm Shame he tarnished himself with England supporters, including me, with the hand of God incident.

Every England player would have done the same thing

Every player in the world would


Heck, we had our very own ‘Hand of Roofe’ v Forest a couple of years back
We are Premier League
User avatar
Smudge3920
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 2713
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Canada

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Smudge3920 »

Every #1 in sport, music etc etc is always a very subjective and personal thing...I think it is safe to say that Maradona was definately one of the top 10 footballers of all time, definately a legend and he will always be a constant in any discussion/debate on who was the best of all time.

RIP Diego...keep your hands to yourself up there :)
Side before self & MOT
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 88356
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by 1964white »

Fridge wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:42 am RIP Maradona








Every England player would have done the same thing

Every player in the world would


Heck, we had our very own ‘Hand of Roofe’ v Forest a couple of years back
Not those days Fridge, cheating was introduced to the British game by the foreign contingent.

Now the premier league is riddled with it :(
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 88356
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by 1964white »

weasel wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:33 pm Would agree 100% For me better than Pele as Pele was a great player in a Brazil team full of great players. Brazil would likely have won the world cup without Pele Maradona almost singlehandly (pun intended) took an ordinary Argentina team to World Cup glory and then the final 4 years later as well as making Napoli the best team in Italy for a few years despite them being fairly average.
No they wouldn't & no way was Maradona was better than Pele

Pele won three World Cups plus thirty domestic titles & cups for the clubs he played for. One of few strikers I guess to score many more goals than appearances in his career

Only reason folk on here are claiming Maradona was better than Pele is because they weren't around or old enough to witness his greatness.

Pele was a gentleman & still is as oppose to Diego for all his greatness was a cheat & became a arrogant pot-smoking/drunkard slob.

As I say great player but not the best!
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 88356
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by 1964white »

White Riot wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:36 pm
Shame he tarnished himself with England supporters, including me, with the hand of God incident.

Great players shouldn't need to cheat like that.

RIP and thanks for the memories Diego.
Indeed WR :tup:
White Riot
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3177
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by White Riot »

Boo Radley wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:51 pm People forget that the hand of God incident was only four years after the Falklands War and that game was driven on a nationalistic fervour for the Argentine players. Each of them would have thrown their grannies at Shilton to get that ball over the line. The biggest pressure was on Maradona, and he became a national hero for it.

He was actually highly regarded for not cheating throughout his career. He was kicked around every pitch he played on, but he got up and played everyone doing this thuggery off the pitch.

Ronaldo would either have given up at twenty or won Oscars if he was subjected to a fraction of the punishment Maradona got.
Hi Boo,

I agree that especially for Argentina there was much more riding on that match than a game of football/World Cup. Most, if not all, Argentinians were devastated by the Falklands War and felt an ongoing sense of injustice that needed to be avenged. Football and the World Cup was their vehicle of justice, hence Maradona claimed the Hand of God was involved, which is pretty eloquent.

I disagree with you about him being highly regarded for not cheating throughout his career. I sat down to watch Italia 90, expecting more of his amazing talent to be on show, but Diego decided to roll around on the floor for the whole tournament. What a waste of an opportunity to display his skills.

Ronaldo, is another divisive figure for me, all the talent in the world, but a cheating w**ker who never would have survived in the 70/80s.

I agree Maradona was kicked from pillar to post for most of his career, but like most South American players, he's certainly no angel. In one of the best matches I've ever watched Argentina v Brazil in the 1982 World Cup, Maradona on the greatest stage had a lesson in football from Zico and lost his head resulting in this red card:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP3u2nDEcPA
User avatar
Carrick Dave
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:46 pm

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Carrick Dave »

faaip wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:02 pm Not really, you know I mean he had to play for Northern Ireland who were never likely to threaten a word cup win....It's the main argument for George Best not being one of the greats. Probably better than Maradona in my opinion
I knew what you meant. :) :)
White Riot
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3177
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by White Riot »

Fridge wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:42 am RIP Maradona
Every England player would have done the same thing
Every player in the world would
Heck, we had our very own ‘Hand of Roofe’ v Forest a couple of years back
I don't agree with you on this one Fridge.

In the same match Lineker scored a great header to get us back in the game. John Barnes sent over a number of wonderful crosses near the end of the match, one of which Lineker just couldn't quite nod the ball into the net. If he'd used his hand as Maradona did we'd have had an equalizer, but he chose not to cheat even though a World Cup semi was at stake. Argentina's arses had already dropped out when Lineker scored the first one, so we could well have gone on to win that match if Lineker was prepared to cheat.

Cheating was always more prevalent on the continent and in South America, but it's a relatively new concept in English football as we've traditionally been very sportsmanlike, to our detriment in Europe and international competitions.

For the recent generations I would accept that you're more accurate as cheating has pervaded our game with the influx of foreign players and coaches. I could imagine Grealish having no problem cheating for a win, whereas I don't see that KP would behave in that manner. Yes, Roofe defo guilty as charged.

I've always looked at it like this, it's a much better game if cheating is not allowed. However, if the ref allows the opposition to gain an advantage by cheating, then I have absolutely no problem with our own players cheating to level the playing field.

Maradona got away with it, but at the same time I'm still disappointed that:
a) Steve Hodge plays him in with an appalling attempt at a clearance
b) The officials fail to initially spot the offence and disallow the goal
c) Maradona realizes the goal may be disallowed and gets the whole Argentina team to surround the ref and pressure him into letting the goal stand.
d) Peter Shilton is so slow to anticipate play and come out that a midget is able to out jump him to the ball. Even using his hand Maradona should not be able to out jump Shilton.
e) The biggest issue for me is that Shilton wastes a golden opportunity to get his knees and elbows into Maradona and take him out of the match. In the reverse of that situation in 98 Argentina had no problem at all targeting Beckham (stupid boy) to get him off the pitch.
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 88356
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by 1964white »

Bielsa on Maradona

Maradona - your abiding memory of him and what he meant to Argentina?

"Maradona was an artist. The dimension of the repercussion of this art has infinite recognitions. To give one example: the songs written about him are extraordinary and I read 10 texts after his death that have been emotional. There’s a recognition of what he gave to the spectators in beauty. In terms of what he signifies to us in particular, Diego made us feel a fantasy an idol makes you feel. The myth that is that person, what he does, makes us believe we are all capable of doing it. That’s why the loss of an idol always hurts the most excluded the most. They are the ones who most need someone to show they can triumph"

Maradona - what impression did he have on you and Argentina?

"He couldn’t be better. He was, for us and will continue to be, an idol. Given the fact he is not with us anymore brings us great sadness. Having lost an idol, it makes us feel weak"

"In that game what really stood out was his relationship with the public. Everything he did as a footballer was of beauty which cannot be matched"

Maradona - fair to compare great players from different eras? Maradona the greatest?

If you were to compare the five players (Messi, Maradona, Ronaldo, Pele, ?) I mentioned it’s difficult to conclude because you have to consider so many factors. All comes down to the feelings each player has left you with. Maybe he was pat of your time and he left you a certain feeling you carried with you. There is something that makes me sad: players like Maradona and Messi show their brilliance through dribbling. Versions of players that stop repeating themselves. That’s to say, for example Mbappe is the best in the world right now, but he is not comparable to Maradona and Messi.

Perceive the pressure Maradona was under with Argentina and Napoli?

Players with such individual brilliance, they don’t know what it is to play with pressure. The development of the creativity of a player like Diego would not have been able to develop if he felt pressure. In football, the pressure means the pressure around you affects your performance in some way. I believe in the four or five best players in the world, they don’t feel this.
User avatar
Fridge
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 1130
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:13 am

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Fridge »

White Riot wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:49 pm I don't agree with you on this one Fridge.

In the same match Lineker scored a great header to get us back in the game. John Barnes sent over a number of wonderful crosses near the end of the match, one of which Lineker just couldn't quite nod the ball into the net. If he'd used his hand as Maradona did we'd have had an equalizer, but he chose not to cheat even though a World Cup semi was at stake. Argentina's arses had already dropped out when Lineker scored the first one, so we could well have gone on to win that match if Lineker was prepared to cheat.
Some good points here.

Lineker is of course notorious for his excellent sportsmanship, having never received a booking in his career. However, I'm not convinced that had he accidentally scored a goal with his hand in the same game, that he would run screaming to the ref 'no ref, it was a hand ball.' Of course he wouldn't, let's not kid ourselves.

(And that's not me saying that Maradona did or did not do it on purpose, certainly looks like he knew what he was doing but you can never say for certain)

White Riot wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:49 pm d) Peter Shilton is so slow to anticipate play and come out that a midget is able to out jump him to the ball. Even using his hand Maradona should not be able to out jump Shilton.
Shilton has once again left a very poor taste in my mouth with his antics over the last 24 hours.

Not even 24 hours after Maradona's death and Shilton has run to the Daily Mail to cry some more about that famous incident. What poor taste. He should be ashamed of himself, selling out to make it all about him once again in such short time. What a perfect opportunity to rise above it all and celebrate the man for his great football (of course this is the second time he couldn't rise above Maradona)

And what an excellent point you make about Shilton. Not only is he 8 inches taller than Maradona, he is also allowed to use his hands. How he has been so slow off his line and beaten in the air, I'll never know. My honest feeling is he is embarrassed knowing that, handball or not, that ball should never have ended up in the back of the net.

Maradona himself put it excellently:

"Shilton! You think you are the hero, the honest Shilton! Tell me, if the ball crossed just over the line, and you swept it away without the referee seeing it had gone over, would you go and tell him it was a goal?" (No, he wouldn't)
And as Gascoigne puts it above, 'That goal made you anyway Shilton'

Let's of course remember that none of this stopped Shilton from gracelessly cashing in on the incident for the rest of his career. Let's not forget the 'Peter Shilton's Handball Maradona' video game on the C64.

Shilton will remain bitter about the incident until the end of his days I suspect. At the end of the day, it's not Maradona's fault that Shilton can't jump!


I don't really subscribe to the idea that English footballers have always been the shining example for grace and fair play and that foreign footballers are the ones who brought cheating and poor sportsmanship into the game. I'm of course not calling all English players cheaters either, I'm just saying they're no different from any other.

Of course we would all think that our players are the ultimate examples of sportsmanship, we support England after all.
We are Premier League
White Riot
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3177
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by White Riot »

Fridge wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:10 pm Some good points here.

Lineker is of course notorious for his excellent sportsmanship, having never received a booking in his career. However, I'm not convinced that had he accidentally scored a goal with his hand in the same game, that he would run screaming to the ref 'no ref, it was a hand ball.' Of course he wouldn't, let's not kid ourselves.

(And that's not me saying that Maradona did or did not do it on purpose, certainly looks like he knew what he was doing but you can never say for certain)

Shilton has once again left a very poor taste in my mouth with his antics over the last 24 hours.

Not even 24 hours after Maradona's death and Shilton has run to the Daily Mail to cry some more about that famous incident. What poor taste. He should be ashamed of himself, selling out to make it all about him once again in such short time. What a perfect opportunity to rise above it all and celebrate the man for his great football (of course this is the second time he couldn't rise above Maradona)

And what an excellent point you make about Shilton. Not only is he 8 inches taller than Maradona, he is also allowed to use his hands. How he has been so slow off his line and beaten in the air, I'll never know. My honest feeling is he is embarrassed knowing that, handball or not, that ball should never have ended up in the back of the net.

Maradona himself put it excellently:

"Shilton! You think you are the hero, the honest Shilton! Tell me, if the ball crossed just over the line, and you swept it away without the referee seeing it had gone over, would you go and tell him it was a goal?" (No, he wouldn't)
And as Gascoigne puts it above, 'That goal made you anyway Shilton'

Let's of course remember that none of this stopped Shilton from gracelessly cashing in on the incident for the rest of his career. Let's not forget the 'Peter Shilton's Handball Maradona' video game on the C64.

Shilton will remain bitter about the incident until the end of his days I suspect. At the end of the day, it's not Maradona's fault that Shilton can't jump!


I don't really subscribe to the idea that English footballers have always been the shining example for grace and fair play and that foreign footballers are the ones who brought cheating and poor sportsmanship into the game. I'm of course not calling all English players cheaters either, I'm just saying they're no different from any other.

Of course we would all think that our players are the ultimate examples of sportsmanship, we support England after all.
Hi Fridge,

That's a brilliant response and very well received by me.

You make some very funny points :lol:

How could anyone not love Gazza?

I hadn't seen any of Shilton's comments today, but I've got to agree with you that he shows dreadful taste and a real lack of dignity.

I'm still wondering to this day how Shilton could not come to claim that ball easily and rough Maradona up at the same time :duno:

In a way I've forgiven Maradona more than I have Shilton :shock:

Let's remember Shilton was caught off his line against Germany in 90 in the semi, admittedly it was a fluke goal. same as Seaman against Brazil in 2002. if I remember rightly Shilton and Seaman did not manage to save a single penalty in the shootouts of the 90 and 96 semis. So are the Germans really that good at penalties?

My top four of all time:
1.Cruyff
2. Maradona
3. Pele
4. Zico

Regardless of the Hand of God Maradona should be remembered for his talent, passion and the excitement he brought to the beautiful game = RIP Diego
White Riot
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3177
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by White Riot »

1964white wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:50 pm Bielsa on Maradona

Maradona - your abiding memory of him and what he meant to Argentina?

"Maradona was an artist. The dimension of the repercussion of this art has infinite recognitions. To give one example: the songs written about him are extraordinary and I read 10 texts after his death that have been emotional. There’s a recognition of what he gave to the spectators in beauty. In terms of what he signifies to us in particular, Diego made us feel a fantasy an idol makes you feel. The myth that is that person, what he does, makes us believe we are all capable of doing it. That’s why the loss of an idol always hurts the most excluded the most. They are the ones who most need someone to show they can triumph"

Maradona - what impression did he have on you and Argentina?

"He couldn’t be better. He was, for us and will continue to be, an idol. Given the fact he is not with us anymore brings us great sadness. Having lost an idol, it makes us feel weak"

"In that game what really stood out was his relationship with the public. Everything he did as a footballer was of beauty which cannot be matched"

Maradona - fair to compare great players from different eras? Maradona the greatest?

If you were to compare the five players (Messi, Maradona, Ronaldo, Pele, ?) I mentioned it’s difficult to conclude because you have to consider so many factors. All comes down to the feelings each player has left you with. Maybe he was pat of your time and he left you a certain feeling you carried with you. There is something that makes me sad: players like Maradona and Messi show their brilliance through dribbling. Versions of players that stop repeating themselves. That’s to say, for example Mbappe is the best in the world right now, but he is not comparable to Maradona and Messi.

Perceive the pressure Maradona was under with Argentina and Napoli?

Players with such individual brilliance, they don’t know what it is to play with pressure. The development of the creativity of a player like Diego would not have been able to develop if he felt pressure. In football, the pressure means the pressure around you affects your performance in some way. I believe in the four or five best players in the world, they don’t feel this.
Classy tribute from Bielsa, as we would already expect :clap:

I would love to hear his interpretation of the Hand of God goal :duno:
User avatar
Fridge
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 1130
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:13 am

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by Fridge »

White Riot wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:21 pm
How could anyone not love Gazza?
Absolutely! I do hope he can get through his addiction trouble. He does make me laugh.
White Riot wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:21 pm
I hadn't seen any of Shilton's comments today,

real lack of dignity.
Absolutely, if you’ve got nothing positive to say then stay away from the interviews.

Could have easily risen above it and refused to talk about the incident... this is now the second time that Shilton has failed to rise above Maradona... :lol:
We are Premier League
liggy
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1346
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:54 am

Re: RIP To those departed - Maradona

Post by liggy »

Gazza is a good bloke
Me and my son took him yem last year
He was mortal at 1015 am outside of
Debenhams in the metro centre.
He knew wor paul played in the same team
1985 .
He's a ordinary bloke who has ploughed millions into Dunstan


A top lad imho
Post Reply