MB Is An Idealist

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
Post Reply
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 28187
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

MB Is An Idealist

Post by Cjay »

*Not meant as a negative post or a criticsm, just an observation*

Marcelo Bielsa is a footballing romantic, a deep thinker whose ideas have helped shape modern football.

The amount of highly successful managers who use ideas invented and shaped by Bielsa is well known.

Bielsa believes deeply in his ideas, he believes that a side should be more than the sum of its parts because of them.

He believes this so much that he thinks nothing of playing a DM at CB or a RW at RB or a Striker at RW or a CM at LWB.

In MB's mind it shouldn't matter because the overall style should help cover any possible individual limitations.

Last season we saw the best of this and the worst.

At its best he can take less illustrious teams like Bilbao to European and Domestic finals, he can take previously mid table Championship sides to the brink of automatic promotion.

But the elephant in the room is the lack of silverware in Bielsa's locker.

In context MB did a great job last season, he did a great job at Marseille he did a great job first season at Bilbao.

But in terms of the history books and achievements he has nothing to show for any of that.

See i think the reason that is the case is because as effective as MBs style is, everything has a limit.

Every style has a limit, and in that sense the limit comes with the individual parts.

Pep is a superb coach, but as we saw 1st season at City, that isnt enough unless the individual parts fit the style or the style fits the parts.

Pep knew this and went out and corrected it, Simeone did similar at Madrid, Poch at Spurs etc.

All of MB's students have at times changed the style slightly to fit the individual parts and/or slowly bought in the individual parts to fit the style.

So what you rarely see with those sides for example is what you see with MB's, square pegs round holes. They will convert player like MB does, Phillips to DM for example, Javi Martinez as a cb at Bilbao, Kyle Walker as a 3rd cb etc, Delph as a lwb.

But very quickly if the part doesnt work it will be removed and replaced.

They dont persevere with it because they are not total idealists, they understand the need for balance in the respect of parts and the sum, if a player has 1 specialist position they tend to be used in it unless they fit perfectly into the new role.

MB is different, he will continue to use Phillips as a cb if he needs to, Ayling as a cb, Dallas as a full back etc. They arent ideally suited individually but the sum of its parts should cover the limitations.

What MB is revered for is perhaps partially responsible for his silverware underachievement, as good a DM as Javi Martinez is was it really better to use him in an unfamiliar role at Bilbao.

He believes so staunchly in his ideals that it has likely cost him trophies.

He searches for perfection in his style, but it may be that to achieve that he would have to compromise one of his staunchest beliefs, that a side can be more than the sum of its parts.

To achieve the perfect example of BielsaBall could it be that MB would need to take the path his students took?

Get the individual parts right first.

Once again just an observation and subject for discussion.
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
mothbanquet
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3239
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Re: MB Is An Idealist

Post by mothbanquet »

A sensible and reasoned post.

You know, much as I like and respect Pep Guardiola, and admire his tactics, I've always said he's like the Championship/Football Manager theory crafter, in that he's found a system of tactics that prove very very successful but in order to carry them out it requires an infinite money cheat - because they only truly work effectively with the best footballers money can buy.

Bielsa is much the same in this regard. His tactics may well prove unbeatable with the best players at his disposal but the clubs he has managed don't have those kinds of resources, and as we've seen, he is held in high enough esteem by the football world to be able to manage at a high level, and at teams with more money than ourselves. So why is he here when he could have a better chance of trophies and command a higher wage?

It's not the desire for silverware that led him to the Championship. It's simply that he's famously very picky about the projects he takes on. He values a club's fans and culture far more than available funds, because that's what he believes football is all about. He shows this with the humility he displays, the way he immerses himself in the local geography and lifestyle and the way he always takes the time to engage with fans on the street.

Yes, he is an idealist but he backs up all his decisions with statistics and observations. Numbers may not tell the whole story but they don't lie either, and Bielsa's methodical, even obsessive approach is all aimed at maximising the chances of success because absolute certainty is impossible to achieve, so that's all you can do.

Bielsa is an idealist, maybe even a purist but it's not without reason. He believes that this system is capable of beating anything and anyone, and I for one believe if we had our pick of the Championship's players we would steamroll the league. But those are the only circumstances under which we could. Until then we'll just have to sit tight and ride this rollercoaster and remember that we've never had a better shot at getting promoted to the Premier League than with this man.
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 127703
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: MB Is An Idealist

Post by 1964white »

Moth follows up with another fantastic post :tup:
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 14027
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: MB Is An Idealist

Post by weasel »

A couple of great posts.

If last season we had had our fair share of luck on and off the pitch then Bielsa would have got us automatically promoted. Bielsa's system worked extremely well last season and if we hadn't had all the injuries you have to say we'd have got a few more points and acheived automatic promotion. On the pitch and a bit of luck at key times was missing for us and again that brings a few points and we get promoted, Bamford doesn't hit the post v Birmingham and we are 1-0 up but instead they get the rebound go straight up the pitch and score and we lose. A couple of inches the difference there between 3 points and 0. Klich's shot that hit the crossbar v Derby, Bamford failing by inches to get a touch on the ball in that same match and we go 2-0 up on the night and romp home. Missing penalties, the Norwich deflected freekick that becomes unsaveable etc.

So all in all it boils down to fine margins last season more so than the round pegs and stubborness.
User avatar
Irish Ian
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 12933
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: MB Is An Idealist

Post by Irish Ian »

1964white wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:28 pm Moth follows up with another fantastic post :tup:
Dont worry I will ruin it soon. :)
'
"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 127703
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: MB Is An Idealist

Post by 1964white »

Irish Ian wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:31 pm Dont worry I will ruin it soon. :)
Weasel already has :lol:
Post Reply