Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

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faaip
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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by faaip » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:09 pm

Yes but set piece goals are a different stat to corners and crosses, I remember conceding from FK's a few times last season and not just directly
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by Cjay » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:39 pm

Just 4 of the 21 set-piece goals Leeds conceded last season were headed finishes. Excluding penalties, 9 of the 15 set-piece goals Leeds conceded were scored inside the box, though none were scored closer than 6 yards out. (Stolen from twitter).

Didnt concede many headed ones but were we getting beaten to the corner and not dealing with the bits after like today?

It is not a new problem. Every week we dedicate a high percentage of time to set-pieces. We have a look at what’s not well done and we try to correct it. Of course we try to find the solution to this problem with different players, but our best headers are (Liam) Cooper, (Pontus) Jansson and (Gaetano) Berardi. At one point we stabilised the problem, but as they are not in the team this problem is coming back again.”


Remember this quote because i did some checking at the time as the implication Berardi was good in the air worried me.

As it turned out he was amongst the weakest cbs in the league winning a very low percentage of his aerial duels (35% or something).

Cant anyone else remember MB talking about this?

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by rab_rant » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:12 am

Lets talk about goals. There is nothing finer than a well crafted goal,
a string of passes, like moves on a chess board that ends in a brilliant goal.
Checkmate!!! The mazey run that bobs and weaves between players, cutting through
a defence like a knife through butter... the perfect pass to the toe of an onrushing
attacker who buries it into the net... the Pirlo penalty lob, the Hernandez chip to
the back post. A goal can be memorable and a thing of Beauty... but what of the Forest goal?

Skitter is the word that best describes it. You know the feeling, a few lagers and a hot Vindaloo,
and next thing you know you are running to the toilet. It is a hurried and messy affair, splatters
everywhere. You think it is finished then comes another burst, like brown sludge out a firehose.
The rim of the toilet bowl looks like it has had a paint job by Jackson Pollack, and you have splashback on your butt.

That is the only way to describe the Forrest goal. It was pure SHITE
Scottish Steel and Irish Fire that's the weapon I desire.

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by 1964white » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:15 am

whiteswan wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:03 pm
It still comes down to us not scoring enough goals from all the posession we have for me.....we wouldn't be talking about the Forrest goal had we already been 3 or 4 up when they scored
Have we not learned our lessons from our previous three home games ?

Coasting against Wigan then they went down to ten men.....

Making Villa look daft then we give them a goal so Villa & the football league wouldn't sulk, passionate Pontus was having none of it & now he's gone

We're 2-0 up on aggregate v Derby & contrived to chuck the game away in 20 minutes of madness

Yesterday all last seasons frustrations came flooding back with us in total control, still missing chances & gifting yet another soft goal

So we haven't won one of our last four home games, all four have a similar theme.

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by 1964white » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:28 am

Cjay wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:57 pm
Cant tell you exact numbers anymore.

MB admitted we had a problem defending set pieces i think early 2019 (cant remember the game)

He mentioned how they spent a lot of time trying to correct it on the training ground and then highlighted that if you take the set piece goals out we are one of the best defensively.

Edit . .Bolton in February he said we had a real problem from set pieces but said unfortunately its not a new problem.

Fairly sure he said it even earlier to, beginnof January maybe.
My god for all the the possession we have in every game we only have to defend for for about fifteen minutes in a match but we still concede goals as the opposition only needs one opportunity & they stick the ball in the onion bag

Goals wins matches

Clean sheets invariably wins matches, not conceding you certainly don't lose games

We do neither consistently

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by 1964white » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:36 am

gessa wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:01 pm
Think Alioski was the wrong substition , twice now coming on and the left side was weaker.
Indeed mate once Alioski came on the threat that Jack gave us down the left flank had gone

Ali looks a pale shadow of the player that showed improved form last season, maybe his injury has knocked him for six

Wrong substitution imo too!

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by 1964white » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:41 am

60sUnited wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:24 pm
Its sad really, a clinical striker and maybe a back up centre half and imo we would definitely be top two contenders. As it stands top 6 maybe with shed loads of luck, so near and yet so far !! Forest are very average lets not kid ourselves, yet they came away with a point, very worrying, but overall its enjoyable to watch but not promotion class.
We'd have walked the championship had we shown a bit more ambition. I still believe we can achieve promotion but I'm expecting a squeaky bum ride right to the finish

Leeds directors have never made things easy, we always seem have a difficult approach

Football is a simple game really !

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by NorfolkWhite » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:12 am

Cjay wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:35 pm
Watching Quest and the amount of set piece goals and cross goals, worries me greatly.

Bottom line.

How will we cope when Millwall hoof crosses into big Matt Smith?

Or WBA into their collection of 6ft plus giants?

Or Cardiff?

Boro?

So many teams in this league use set pieces as a vital weapon, to discount the need for commanding players in our team is very naive imo. All the more bizarre because i remember MB saying this, teams use set pieces a lot.

We had a real problem from set pieces last season with PJ who no matter what anyone says now he was statistically in the top % for aerial duels won.

Cooper and Berardi weren't and from what ive seen of Ben White for all he has done well he wont be either.

Genuinely not sure our coaching staff have grasped the need for height and power in this league. Obviously it isnt the be all and end all but if the cross is good, a with everything being equal, a commanding 6ft4 player will beat a 6ft one 9/10.

A team which has 3 or 4 players 2 or 3 inches taller then their opponents will beat them in the air more often then not, you can coach and coach and coach but it matters not if the cross is good

People point to Fabio Cannavaro and say "yeah but he was short".

Yes he was, he was also world class, he also was in sides that had beastly teammates like Lillian Thuram, Andrea Barzagli, Alessandro Nesta etc.

Cannavaro was weaker in the air, as he would be at 5ft9 but he played in teams that had other aerially strong players.and he had natural world class talent, positioning, reading of the game.

We dont have that.
The other downside is we have no real threat from set pieces ourselves, we had a succession of corners yesterday and never looked like getting near any of them. I know it’s the type of player MB wants but our lack of aerial ability is a gaping hole in our armoury.

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by 1964white » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:30 am

NorfolkWhite wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:12 am
The other downside is we have no real threat from set pieces ourselves, we had a succession of corners yesterday and never looked like getting near any of them. I know it’s the type of player MB wants but our lack of aerial ability is a gaping hole in our armoury.
Once again we should have resolved that problem in the summer, we sell our giant & bring in shorter type players (not decrying their quality by any means) to go with the rest of our midgets.
Pointless pumping the ball in the air although we don't have much of an option as the corner-kicker has to beat the first man which Phillips & Douglas did for the majority of the match, just no one there to capitalise on the opportunities. Cooper generally gets his head on one of the crosses invariably hitting the top of his head or glancing his header wide.

Bielsa likes little men even though our defensive frailties are there to be seen

Two games in & we have conceded awful goals conceded already !

Do we not learn from our lessons ?

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by BGwhite » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:45 am

Cjay wrote:Watching Quest and the amount of set piece goals and cross goals, worries me greatly.

Bottom line.

How will we cope when Millwall hoof crosses into big Matt Smith?

Or WBA into their collection of 6ft plus giants?

Or Cardiff?

Boro?

So many teams in this league use set pieces as a vital weapon, to discount the need for commanding players in our team is very naive imo. All the more bizarre because i remember MB saying this, teams use set pieces a lot.

We had a real problem from set pieces last season with PJ who no matter what anyone says now he was statistically in the top % for aerial duels won.

Cooper and Berardi weren't and from what ive seen of Ben White for all he has done well he wont be either.

Genuinely not sure our coaching staff have grasped the need for height and power in this league. Obviously it isnt the be all and end all but if the cross is good, a with everything being equal, a commanding 6ft4 player will beat a 6ft one 9/10.

A team which has 3 or 4 players 2 or 3 inches taller then their opponents will beat them in the air more often then not, you can coach and coach and coach but it matters not if the cross is good

People point to Fabio Cannavaro and say "yeah but he was short".

Yes he was, he was also world class, he also was in sides that had beastly teammates like Lillian Thuram, Andrea Barzagli, Alessandro Nesta etc.

Cannavaro was weaker in the air, as he would be at 5ft9 but he played in teams that had other aerially strong players.and he had natural world class talent, positioning, reading of the game.

We dont have that.
Absolutely spot on ! This league is not about shear skill , fancy football and possession. It requires big, strong powerful guys in the mix who are superior in the air and i dont see any of this within our squad. This has been the case for many years and until its rectified Leeds will struggle to contain teams.

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by SG90 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:45 am

NorfolkWhite wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:12 am
The other downside is we have no real threat from set pieces ourselves, we had a succession of corners yesterday and never looked like getting near any of them. I know it’s the type of player MB wants but our lack of aerial ability is a gaping hole in our armoury.
Only Cooper got on the end of them and he sent two free headers wide.
Radz out now

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by BGwhite » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:47 am

faaip wrote:Anybody wanna work out how many goals we conceded from corners last season..Today White deals with that if he isn't pulled back and we keep a clean sheet. Other way round and it's a stone cold pen
Is he pulled back if he's 6'3 and more powerful ? Our team just isnt tall and powerful enough.

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by SG90 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:47 am

BGwhite wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:45 am
Absolutely spot on ! This league is not about shear skill , fancy football and possession. It requires big, strong powerful guys in the mix who are superior in the air and i dont see any of this within our squad. This has been the case for many years and until its rectified Leeds will struggle to contain teams.

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We couldn't cope with Sammy Ameobi ffs. No real height or strength in this side.
Radz out now

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by SG90 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:51 am

1964white wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:36 am
Indeed mate once Alioski came on the threat that Jack gave us down the left flank had gone

Ali looks a pale shadow of the player that showed improved form last season, maybe his injury has knocked him for six

Wrong substitution imo too!
As with last season, Douglas and Dallas were always subbed on first, Alioski will be this season, regardless of whether it's right or not.
Radz out now

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by BGwhite » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:55 am

SG90 wrote: We couldn't cope with Sammy Ameobi ffs. No real height or strength in this side.
As soon as he came on i knew there would be problems. 500k he cost if i heard it correctly ,? That guy has more pace power and skill than our combined strikers.

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by WhiteRose » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am

Play almost the exact same team as last year and I'm not sure how they expect different results. We have a £15 million player who was brought in specifically to make the difference and he is sat on the bench, why isnt he playing? he was signed weeks ago! I'd be surprised if costa or eddie start a game in august.

Given our poor conversion rate from crosses we should be looking to operate more through the middle,thats when we were at our most devastating last season with saiz carrying and the front 3 putting in runs ahead of him.

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by SG90 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:46 am

WhiteRose wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am
Play almost the exact same team as last year and I'm not sure how they expect different results. We have a £15 million player who was brought in specifically to make the difference and he is sat on the bench, why isnt he playing? he was signed weeks ago! I'd be surprised if costa or eddie start a game in august.

Given our poor conversion rate from crosses we should be looking to operate more through the middle,thats when we were at our most devastating last season with saiz carrying and the front 3 putting in runs ahead of him.
We can't play through the middle as we have no pace, hence the predictability of balls out wide. Clarke, Costa, Shackleton or Nketiah will all bring something different, no point having them sat on the bench until 15 mins left.
Radz out now

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by LUFC 1966 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:51 am

I could see the height issue being a problem yesterday as every Forest sub warmed up in front of where I sit and they dwarfed our subs. Lamouchi tactics were to frustrate Leeds for 80 minutes and try and nick a set piece goal. Not a highly ambitious tactic but it worked (but only just). If the Ref had not been so one eyed it would have been a free kick and fewer people would have been ready to slit their wrists or vent their spleen on here. we are two games into a 46 game season ..keep the faith.
The only way is up :scar1 :shirtw: :shirtw:

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by BGwhite » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:56 am

SG90 wrote: We can't play through the middle as we have no pace, hence the predictability of balls out wide. Clarke, Costa, Shackleton or Nketiah will all bring something different, no point having them sat on the bench until 15 mins left.
Leeds have enough pace in the forwards now to rip defences apart and get games done and dusted but leaving them on the bench is beyond my comprehension. The difference Costa made when he came on was clearly there for all to see so god only knows why he gets 10 minutes at the end. Bielsas subs last season were baffling at times and old habits die hard which is quite evident . Last week 3-0 up and keeps Pablo on....why ? He needs looking after ! MB is too stubborn for his own and leeds' good .

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Re: Leeds Utd v Nottingham Forest - Match Thread

Post by SG90 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:03 am

BGwhite wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:56 am
Leeds have enough pace in the forwards now to rip defences apart and get games done and dusted but leaving them on the bench is beyond my comprehension. The difference Costa made when he came on was clearly there for all to see so god only knows why he gets 10 minutes at the end. Bielsas subs last season were baffling at times and old habits die hard which is quite evident . Last week 3-0 up and keeps Pablo on....why ? He needs looking after ! MB is too stubborn for his own and leeds' good .

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Completely agree. I said last week as soon as the third went in Pablo should be off. We made the same subs in both games, Harrison-Alioski, Klich-Costa. Costa arrived the same day as Harrison and White, so why isn't he ready to play then? We signed him to make a difference and Forest struggled to contain him. No point starting him in the cup and then immediately dropping him.

I said we're set for now until injuries, so I can see a few more frustrating results this month as we struggle to break teams down without pace.
Radz out now

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