The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domenech

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
Post Reply
User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3264
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domenech

Post by Ellandback1 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:26 am



Good Morning. It's Tuesday 1st October, and here are the Leeds Utd headlines...


Ayling pens new 4 year deal

Luke Ayling has signed a new 4 year deal that will keep him at the club until 2023. The 28yo right back joined Leeds from Bristol City in the Summer of 2016, and although injury prone has represented the Whites on over 100 occasions! It is not known how much the deal is worth financially.

Supposing we don't go up? What if Bielsa leaves and we're left with a bunch of players that a new Manager does not fancy?





Ex France Manager lays into Bielsa

Ex-France Manager Raymond Domenech has branded Bielsa's style of football as 'impossible', claiming that his counter-pressing strategy doesn't work, giving examples when the Argentine was Managing Olympique de Marseille...

Olympique de Marseille tried for 6 months (to do an intense pressing) but Bielsa did not understand that it was very difficult physically and his team took the broth. They were autumn champions and finished 5th (4th). We can have ideas, but we must have the means. Bielsa started on a philosophy of squeezing the opponent everywhere. It's simply impossible!

By sequence, we can do it, but it requires intelligence on the part of the players. That did not stop OL fans from adoring Bielsa?

Yes, but the team finished 5th! When I say to Marseille fans: "Bielsa at OM, it was a scam, an aberration", they are able to hang me! I answer them: "I do not understand, you have finished what place? 5th while you were first at the beginning!"




U23's lose

Leeds U23's lost 2-1 against Crewe at Thorpe Arch yesterday courtesy of a first half double from Railwaymen's young midfielder Oli Finney, and although Gotts netted twenty minutes from time, the Whites were unable to force an equaliser.

Douglas and Ayling both played 35 minutes. Could this be good preparation to start them both tonight? Interestingly both Roberts and Nketiah were both omitted from the squad! Could one, or even both of them start this evening?





Bielsa's press conference


User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8247
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) Bielsa's style of football is impossible - Ex France Manager Domene

Post by weasel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:13 am

It is certainly a tricky one regarding the new contracts as these players have significantly improved under Bielsa but if Bielsa leaves then are they going to be a s good, and also would they be as good at other clubs without Bielsa? As such if they don't fit a new manager's plans we have their contracts crippling the club in terms of not being able to afford new players and not being able to shift the 'new' deadwood which is a similar situation to season's past where we have had loads of players taking a wage but not really part of the manager's plans as we rotated through managers on a yearly basis. Players are assets and liabilities dependant on how well they are playing.

What another manager says about Bielsa doesn't particularly bother me. No idea how good Marseille were pre-Bielsa so it may be that they overachieved by finishing 4th or 5th anyway. Any team can lead a division a few matches into the season, how many teams have already led the championship this season? There will always be concern about burn-out with Bielsa's relentless pressing but equally now the players should have built a core level of fitness havign endured it last season and should be stronger this season, a bit like how Eddie Izzard, a comedian not an athlete, was able to train his body to run a full 26 mile marathon every day for 30 days.
Senor El Weasel

User avatar
YorkshireSquare
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 1:34 pm
Twitter: @motforum
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) Bielsa's style of football is impossible - Ex France Manager Domene

Post by YorkshireSquare » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 am

I really didnt see a physical drop off last season, we were still absolutely dominating games.
Help the site by making your Amazon purchases through our afiliate link.

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8247
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) Bielsa's style of football is impossible - Ex France Manager Domene

Post by weasel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:52 am

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 am
I really didnt see a physical drop off last season, we were still absolutely dominating games.
I am 100% with you. The only problem we had is the same as last season in that we simply didn't win enough games as comfortably as we should have done and had to battle to the very last minute of nearly every game instead of being able to coast for the last 20 minutes. We only won by 2 clear goals 11 times last season and 5 of those wins came in the first 8 matches. So in the remaining 38 matches of the season we had to fight to the last minute in 32 of them (in fact 33 as in one of the games we only got our 2nd goal in the last 5 minutes). That for me was our biggest problem as it also meant Bielsa was unable to rest key players by subbing them off for the last 20 minutes to give them a little breather. We score the penalty v Derby and there wouldn't have been any talk about the late goal and us being tired etc as we would have coasted through the last 20 minutes and been much more likely to have added a 3rd against demoralised opponents than conceding.
Senor El Weasel

Irish Ian
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2126
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by Irish Ian » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:59 am

I'm worried, why are we rewarding all these players with long term contracts?
Is it to bring some players wages closer to our high wage players. It makes no sense beyond this season.

I have been reading those comments about MB for two years now and nothing I have saw makes me think anything different is happening here. Yes we tire the oppo out but we do it with the same players every week.

I think the truth will be told in a couple of years when the Leeds players end their careers and the books start getting written.

Ed starts tonight I reckon. Roberts maybe but last season his assists and goal tally wasnt great, he has to find that cutting edge. Unless of course he starts up top tonight. What would Eddie think then?
"We can wait for the next game with serenity"

"I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it"


Marcelo Bielsa.

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 30516
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by faaip » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:45 am

I'm not concerned with the length of contracts that's never an issue, the cost of the contract could be. If we get promoted we'll have the money to cover and we get several good depth players on cheap premiership wages..If we've massively overpaid them then there could be problems

The likes of Ayling and Dallas could hold their own for a few games at that level if needed. If we don't get promoted we have a squad full of high quality championship players

The key for me is we keep and promote Corberan if MB goes. But I have a feeling that MB stays for a season 3 if we fail again this year. He has a lot invested here now, not least 2 years of his life and we're backing up his requests right now, not least we're looking at new training facilities apparently. I don't think we'd be signing Ayling to an extended contract if MB didn't want him signed and if this was MB's last season and that was clear then a new manager would want his own team. Unless the successor is already here

Bielsa hasn't really had a lot of success in terms of trophies, I think the system is absolutely fine as a base but I do think MB lacks a little bit of imagination and is a little too adherent to his principles.
Last edited by faaip on Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

User avatar
rab_rant
Manager
Manager
Posts: 4005
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by rab_rant » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:21 am

Stubbornness- Bielsa is not stubborn he is pragmatic
Burnout - is always the case if you loose a game... and who does not loose games, yet this claim is always laid at Bielsa's door
Substitutions - Are what the fans clamor for, but the evidence shows that it would be best to stick to the starting lineup.
Pundits - Make their names by criticizing Bielsa
Managers - Crow when they get a draw or a victory. They want to be seen to be better than Bielsa
Fans - Know jack Shite about team selection or what it takes to select a team. They seek out scapegoats at every occasion and bay for blood because their opinions are not being heard.
Opposing teams - Have no plan B. They very rarely play football and only have one mode of operation, parking the bus in the 18 yard box and their wildest dreams are to get a draw or sneak an unjustified victory.
Social media - moronic imbeciles who repeat what other morons are saying and as soon as the volume of words reaches a critical mass it astonishingly becomes the perceived wisdom.
Scottish Steel and Irish Fire that's the weapon I desire.

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 30516
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by faaip » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:47 am

rab_rant wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:21 am
Stubbornness- Bielsa is not stubborn he is pragmatic
Burnout - is always the case if you loose a game... and who does not loose games, yet this claim is always laid at Bielsa's door
Substitutions - Are what the fans clamor for, but the evidence shows that it would be best to stick to the starting lineup.
Pundits - Make their names by criticizing Bielsa
Managers - Crow when they get a draw or a victory. They want to be seen to be better than Bielsa
Fans - Know jack Shite about team selection or what it takes to select a team. They seek out scapegoats at every occasion and bay for blood because their opinions are not being heard.
Opposing teams - Have no plan B. They very rarely play football and only have one mode of operation, parking the bus in the 18 yard box and their wildest dreams are to get a draw or sneak an unjustified victory.
Social media - moronic imbeciles who repeat what other morons are saying and as soon as the volume of words reaches a critical mass it astonishingly becomes the perceived wisdom.

Gotta love perceived wisdom...good post..
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8247
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by weasel » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:53 am

rab_rant wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:21 am
Stubbornness- Bielsa is not stubborn he is pragmatic
Burnout - is always the case if you loose a game... and who does not loose games, yet this claim is always laid at Bielsa's door
Substitutions - Are what the fans clamor for, but the evidence shows that it would be best to stick to the starting lineup.
Pundits - Make their names by criticizing Bielsa
Managers - Crow when they get a draw or a victory. They want to be seen to be better than Bielsa
Fans - Know jack Shite about team selection or what it takes to select a team. They seek out scapegoats at every occasion and bay for blood because their opinions are not being heard.
Opposing teams - Have no plan B. They very rarely play football and only have one mode of operation, parking the bus in the 18 yard box and their wildest dreams are to get a draw or sneak an unjustified victory.
Social media - moronic imbeciles who repeat what other morons are saying and as soon as the volume of words reaches a critical mass it astonishingly becomes the perceived wisdom.
A definite candidate for most sensible post this season
Senor El Weasel

User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3264
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) Bielsa's style of football is impossible - Ex France Manager Domene

Post by Ellandback1 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:39 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 am
I really didnt see a physical drop off last season, we were still absolutely dominating games.
Not in fitness, but certainly in intensity.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 74639
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by 1964white » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:01 pm

I see Eunan O'Kane is still on our books, one of many average players Radz offered more lucrative contracts to in 2017, O'Kane is on a four year deal

User avatar
YorkshireSquare
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 1:34 pm
Twitter: @motforum
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by YorkshireSquare » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:10 pm

1964white wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:01 pm
I see Eunan O'Kane is still on our books, one of many average players Radz offered more lucrative contracts to in 2017, O'Kane is on a four year deal

Hard to sell a player with a broken leg, could well be on his way in January
Help the site by making your Amazon purchases through our afiliate link.

User avatar
mothbanquet
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by mothbanquet » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:56 pm

rab_rant wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:21 am
Stubbornness- Bielsa is not stubborn he is pragmatic
Burnout - is always the case if you loose a game... and who does not loose games, yet this claim is always laid at Bielsa's door
Substitutions - Are what the fans clamor for, but the evidence shows that it would be best to stick to the starting lineup.
Pundits - Make their names by criticizing Bielsa
Managers - Crow when they get a draw or a victory. They want to be seen to be better than Bielsa
Fans - Know jack Shite about team selection or what it takes to select a team. They seek out scapegoats at every occasion and bay for blood because their opinions are not being heard.
Opposing teams - Have no plan B. They very rarely play football and only have one mode of operation, parking the bus in the 18 yard box and their wildest dreams are to get a draw or sneak an unjustified victory.
Social media - moronic imbeciles who repeat what other morons are saying and as soon as the volume of words reaches a critical mass it astonishingly becomes the perceived wisdom.
New definitions for the dictionary IMO.

Regards to players we've tied down to contracts, it seems to me there are few coaches who can boast the number of superstars they've mentored in their time. A lot of Bielsa-coached stars have shone later on their careers, which to me shows that the skills they learn from him are valued and useful to any manager. Maybe we don't get promoted this season and Bielsa leaves, but the players he's coached are used by the next manager to great effect to win promotion next season? It's not an unrealistic situation.

For my part, the players whose contracts we've extended/renewed etc are players I'm happy to keep. Ayling was unplayable in the months before he got injured, Phillips is one of our most treasured assets, you get the idea. I would be more concerned if we'd have given new contracts to Wilks, Halme etc but we've cleaned out a lot of dead wood and kept our best players. That's the way it should be.

User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3264
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by Ellandback1 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:06 pm

On Saturday:-

Phil Hay‏Verified account@PhilHay_ Sep 28

Strange comment from Macauley Bonne. He was asked if he thought Leeds were a "fair team." Said yes but then added that there was something which happened today "which I won't mention" and which will come out later. Bowyer says he doesn't know what Bonne is referring too.

Then today

Charlton Athletic FC
CLUB STATEMENT

An allegation of racial abuse directed at Jonathan Leko by an opposing player during Saturday’s game against Leeds United was reported to referee John Brooks.

The FA are carrying out an investigation following the report.


Then


@PhilHay_

Full statement from Leeds: “Leeds United are aware of an allegation made following our Sky Bet Championship game with Charlton Athletic at The Valley on Saturday. The club will be working with the FA during their investigation. “We will be making no further comment at this stage”

The player is Kiko...

User avatar
BGwhite
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:02 am

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 1st October) - Bielsa's style of football is impossible, Ex France Manager Domen

Post by BGwhite » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:43 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Hard to sell a player with a broken leg, could well be on his way in January
Unless leeds happen to be the buyers Image

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


Post Reply

Advertisment