The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's season?

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's season?

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:35 am



Good Morning. Its Wednesday 22nd January, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Leeds pursuit of Adams takes another twist

Leeds pursuit of Che Adams has taken yet another twist with Southampton laying out specific guidelines regarding an impending move to West Yorkshire for the former Birmingham City hitman. The 23-year-old has scored 34 goals and provided 13 assists in 116 games for the Blues before signing for the South Coast club in a 15m deal last Summer. Although Saints boss Ralph Hasenhuttl has made his feelings clear that he doesn't want to lose Adams, it seems the Saints hierarchy now have a different agenda.

The news came from Phil Hay's social media account when he was replying to an anxious fan. The former Chief football writer for the YEP went on to say that a loan fee of £1m with an obligation to buy him in the Summer for a fee in excess of £10m would secure Adams signature.

Meanwhile, bookies have made Leeds odds on favourites to land Watford striker Andre Gray. Currently the odds are at 1/4. It means that you would have to place four pounds to win a pound back, plus your stake money. Lastly, the Mirror are insisting that Leeds are after Boro front man Britt Assombalonga. The former Forest striker has scored 35 goals in 108 appearances for the Teeside Club.





Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's season?

I'm sure we are all aware that Leeds set pieces need to be fine tuned, but just how bad are they? Here are the stats..



Other stats that may surprise you!

  • Leeds have been awarded the most penalties in the Championshipship this season (6), but have one of the lowest conversion rates in the entire league (3 - 50%).
  • Leeds second top goal scorer this season has come from own goals (6).
  • Leeds have benefited more from own goals, than they have from set pieces this term (5)
  • Leeds have scored as many goals from counter attacks this season as they have from own goals (6)
  • Just under half the goals Leeds have conceded (10 goals from 21) have come from set pieces!

Whilst Bielsa, and his six coaches must be commended for the way they have transformed the way the team play, should we not find the above statistics unacceptable? For a man that ultimately knows every inch of his players capabilities, why have the issues not been addressed. Bielsa maintains "The aerial game depends on the quality of the skills that the players who head the ball have from one team and the other team". Could it be that stubbornness, not a striker, will destroy our chances of promotion?




Che Adams, Southampton, Ralph Hasenhuttl, Phil Hay, Transfer, Andre Gray, stubbornness, Marcelo Bielsa

User avatar
rrfierce
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:38 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by rrfierce » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:52 am

I've said it many times that bielsa is too stubborn and reluctance to change things are probably why he's not won much.

For a man that produces such great football and his analysis of minute details, how can he not see the glaringly obvious that could well destroy the chance of promotion.

The corners is a classic example. Lets just keep doing the thing that isn't working and expect difference results.

User avatar
rab_rant
Manager
Manager
Posts: 4558
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by rab_rant » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:00 am

You say stubborn.
I say steadfastness.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8585
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by weasel » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:01 am

Or perhaps the fact that there aren't that many players that can do absolutely everything that the complete player would in the system. Which is why when Man City buy a player to fit a similar system it costs £50m+ As such you play to the strengths of the team.

Those stats are highly debateable. For example the Forest and Swansea goals we conceded are classed as goals from set pieces however in both those games we cleared the initial set piece before the ball was knocked back in as such for me those goals should be deemed as conceded from open play.

When looking at stats then the most relevant one shows us to be in an automatic promotion place.
Senor El Weasel

User avatar
mothbanquet
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by mothbanquet » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:24 am

"adjective: stubborn

having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so."

I point your attention to the second half of that sentence. Were Bielsa to entertain fans calling him stubborn he will make logical and reasoned arguments for these decisions, ones that take into account factors we wouldn't have thought to consider. That's why he is where he is, comes with the reputation he comes with and has influenced managers at the highest level of the game.

Even laymen must appreciate the obvious - we are not an aerial team. We don't have the players for that aspect of the game and do not prioritise coaching them, nor signing players tailored for it. These stats are neither surprising nor all that relevant. If we had man-mountains who towered over defenders it would utterly ruin other essential aspects of our game. Some say that Bielsa expects too much of the versatility of his players, but isn't expecting them to play silky fast-paced attacking football one minute and out-muscle Millwall's lumps in the box the next exactly the same thing?

Point is, there are pros and cons to every tactical system. This is a con but one balanced out by other areas of effectiveness (when the team is in-form of course, when they're not they wouldn't make up the difference with corner/FK goals anyway) to result in a net gain. Knowing Bielsa, this conclusion would have come from not just a couple of seasons but literally decades of analysis and experience. I said after QPR that the tactics didn't fail - the players did, and I stand by that.

Of course, there is the issue of an effective CF presence and Bamford is no midget, but that's another matter entirely.

User avatar
rrfierce
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:38 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by rrfierce » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:29 am

i wonder if the stats are similar for previous bielsa led teams. And is there any correlation to his previous teams performance over the second half of the season.

User avatar
onemoreslogan
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:48 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by onemoreslogan » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:49 am

Our attackers are short and light- no surprise they don't win many headers in a crowded box. And Bamford, who is the only tall attacker, can't steer a ball off his head to save his life. Not sure what MB can do about that. Cleats with heels? Throw 'em on the rack? Growth hormones?

Let the manager manage.

That said, I do prefer Pablo taking all the dead balls. Corners included. Kalvin has no finesse or intention. Just whacks it.

User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:51 am

weasel wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:01 am
Or perhaps the fact that there aren't that many players that can do absolutely everything that the complete player would in the system. Which is why when Man City buy a player to fit a similar system it costs £50m+ As such you play to the strengths of the team.

Those stats are highly debateable. For example the Forest and Swansea goals we conceded are classed as goals from set pieces however in both those games we cleared the initial set piece before the ball was knocked back in as such for me those goals should be deemed as conceded from open play.

When looking at stats then the most relevant one shows us to be in an automatic promotion place.
Morning Weasel,

To a degree I would have to agree with you, and we all know Bielsa has made some average players look a lot better than they are.

I can't imagine many Managers in the league with half the know how as our chosen one which is why I'm so gobsmacked that he hasn't done anything about it.

Every time we get a corner, there is a better chance that the opposition will break away and score.

Can we be top in everything - No.

Should we be rock bottom in anything - Absolutely not!

User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:52 am

onemoreslogan wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:49 am
Our attackers are short and light- no surprise they don't win many headers in a crowded box. And Bamford, who is the only tall attacker, can't steer a ball off his head to save his life. Not sure what MB can do about that. Cleats with heels? Throw 'em on the rack? Growth hormones?

Let the manager manage.

That said, I do prefer Pablo taking all the dead balls. Corners included. Kalvin has no finesse or intention. Just whacks it.
Bamford is not only our tallest striker.

He's our only striker...

User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:53 am

rrfierce wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:29 am
i wonder if the stats are similar for previous bielsa led teams. And is there any correlation to his previous teams performance over the second half of the season.
Great question

User avatar
onemoreslogan
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:48 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by onemoreslogan » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:59 am

Ellandback1 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:52 am
Bamford is not only our tallest striker.

He's our only striker...
Yeah, but I'm talking about Harrison, Pablo, Costa, even Roberts and Klich. None of them are imposing figures in a crowd. The only one on the roster other than PB who can get up and win a ball is Cooper and he's a defender for a reason.

User avatar
SaraM
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2184
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by SaraM » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:23 am

What Moth said.

If Southampton are willing to sell, then I expect we'll meet their conditions. Could we be buying Adams and Gray? Not keen on Assombolonga - isn't he really injury prone?
In football, nothing is true, nothing is false.

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 32279
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by faaip » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:26 am

Ellandback1 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:51 am
Morning Weasel,

To a degree I would have to agree with you, and we all know Bielsa has made some average players look a lot better than they are.

I can't imagine many Managers in the league with half the know how as our chosen one which is why I'm so gobsmacked that he hasn't done anything about it.

Every time we get a corner, there is a better chance that the opposition will break away and score.

Can we be top in everything - No.

Should we be rock bottom in anything - Absolutely not!
As I hesitantly add we're also bottom at points collected when going behind.
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious...

....but I am...

....so that's how it comes out

User avatar
Irish Ian
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3541
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Irish Ian » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:14 am

It would be interesting to look at what some pre Bielsa stas would be for our players seeing that the squad hasnt changed that much, for example they didnt like being pressed then same as now, but I digress.

Thinking back to when MB first came to the club, from then he sifted out the turds he was going to polish and the turds he was going to exile.

I just wonder how much attention he paid to player height and build free kick specialists, corner takers etc, or was his focus the players who could switch position the best to suit his style.

But it does seem to have left us lacking so many weapons that a team needs to win matches. As has been stated repeatedly the isnt enough goals through out the team as a result. Which of course is magnified by playing a line striker.

But I just think he has isolated the best that he thinks is available and tried to make it work.

But imo what we are left with is too many who are still haunted by the history of not only last season, but the season before when confidence evaporated, passes started going astray and the mistakes started leading to goals conceded.

Which is why Leeds really NEED to land Adams if at all possible but even the Watford lad soon, just yo give them some sense of belief.
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins

User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:23 pm


User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:24 pm

Saints reject 20m and a sizeable loan fee!!!

danhirons
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1414
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by danhirons » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:25 pm

No way we would be spending 20 mill on him surely, would be madness

User avatar
Ellandback1
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:35 pm

danhirons wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:25 pm
No way we would be spending 20 mill on him surely, would be madness
Absolutely crazy, but Phil Hay is as accurate as it gets

User avatar
Irish Ian
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3541
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by Irish Ian » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:48 pm

So are we any closer to at least finding awinger?
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins

User avatar
BGwhite
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1869
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:02 am

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 22nd Jan) Could stubbornness not lack of a striker destroy Leeds United's seas

Post by BGwhite » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Irish Ian wrote:So are we any closer to at least finding awinger?
The midget from Manchester .

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


Post Reply

Advertisment