The best team?

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 9607
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

The best team?

Post by Cjay » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:24 pm

This is not to say we will definitely win the league or even get promoted.

But do any of us (even us pessimistic Pete people) doubt that we are the best team in the league?

Personally ive seen enough of every other side to say with full confidence and honesty, yes imo we are the best team in the league and it isnt even close.

For a start we have the best defence in the league.

That doesnt say much if your entire style is based on counter attacking, sitting back and counter attacking is far easier then playingon the front foot which is why generally only the best teams play on the front foot all the time.

We push forward at all times, but somehow we manage to still be solid as a side despite facing counter attacking teams every game.

In fact we are the most attacking side in the league, most shots, most chances created etc.

So not only are we the best defensive team officially we are also officially the best attacking team in terms of being able to create chances.

Furthermore teams we face adapt for us, we dont adapt for them (very rarely we may sit back to protect a lead late on) but generally we dont change.

Even teams who like to dominate the ball generally will counter vs us.

Fulham, Brentford, Swansea etc.

WBA actually adapted from the first time they played us, they were one of the few teams to try and beat us at our own game, lost 1-0.

Next time they countered like everyone else and got a draw.

Teams know they cant dream of beating us at attacking beautiful football, they will lose same as teams know they cant against all the best teams.

Much like last season imo we are the best team.

Last season i honestly felt us and Sheffield United were the best 2 sides.

Norwich though had Pukki and were clinical, vastly outperforming their xG which is credit to individuals like Pukki not the team as a whole.

Us and Blades underperformed.

This season we again are significantly underperforming our xG.

We are the worst side for xG vs actual goals, we are the worst side for chances missed, we are the worst side for big chances missed.

We are as a side goal scoring wise failing as we all know.

That isnt a team issue, a team imo is a style a group thing, what the group does, the chances created the defending etc the things we shine at.

What lets us down is individual errors and mistakes.

Thats just how it is and how it was last season.

But to get this thread back on a positive i try to remember this little snippet.

Their isnt a worse team at scoring chances in the league officially.

We are 5 points clear of 3rd.

Where would we be if we were just say midtable in that respect?

The team as a collective is 2nd without getting close to its overall potential.

How grateful must the rest of the league be that we are under performing?

If we werent we would be promoted by now and that is a scary thought for the rest of the league and one we can take comfort in.

It hasnt happened yet but if we ever click and fulfil our potential we could easily win every game left at a canter.

Here is hoping :)

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 78841
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: The best team?

Post by 1964white » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:28 pm

I've said all along we are the best team in the championship

User avatar
SaraM
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2864
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by SaraM » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:46 pm

Good points, well made.

It helps to explain why Bielsa perseveres with the team unchanged, as the things which are letting us down, individual errors, are beyond his control.

He has drilled the team to be the best attacking and defensive unit that we can be, and he has succeeded at that.

The rest is down to the players on the pitch in the heat of the moment.
In football, nothing is true, nothing is false.

User avatar
gessa
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22954
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:40 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by gessa » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:08 pm

The best team are the one's that finish 1st after 46 games.

Denman
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:55 am

Re: The best team?

Post by Denman » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:11 pm

gessa wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:08 pm
The best team are the one's that finish 1st after 46 games.
My thoughts exactly.

Norm
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6342
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 2:51 am
Location: SW Missouri USA

Re: The best team?

Post by Norm » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:18 pm

Indubitably

User avatar
mothbanquet
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by mothbanquet » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:20 pm

We are the best team. WBA may have more points (for now) but we've only deserved to lose games rarely. We've lost games while still playing well, a pretty astonishing number of results decided by factors completely out of our control.

When West Brom have lost, they've done so looking piss poor. Likewise, they've won a few (away at Wigan immediately springs to mind) they didn't deserve to.

Yes, most points win etc but that's an arbitrary way of looking at it and ignores the details. Success does not always mean quality - look at 50 Shades of Grey.

Norm
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6342
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 2:51 am
Location: SW Missouri USA

Re: The best team?

Post by Norm » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:48 pm

mothbanquet wrote:

We are the best team. WBA may have more points (for now) but we've only deserved to lose games rarely. We've lost games while still playing well, a pretty astonishing number of results decided by factors completely out of our control.

When West Brom have lost, they've done so looking piss poor. Likewise, they've won a few (away at Wigan immediately springs to mind) they didn't deserve to.

Yes, most points win etc but that's an arbitrary way of looking at it and ignores the details. Success does not always mean quality - look at 50 Shades of Grey.
I must do that - I've heard enough about it.

Denman
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:55 am

Re: The best team?

Post by Denman » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:51 pm

mothbanquet wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:20 pm
We are the best team. WBA may have more points (for now) but we've only deserved to lose games rarely. We've lost games while still playing well, a pretty astonishing number of results decided by factors completely out of our control.

When West Brom have lost, they've done so looking piss poor. Likewise, they've won a few (away at Wigan immediately springs to mind) they didn't deserve to.

Yes, most points win etc but that's an arbitrary way of looking at it and ignores the details. Success does not always mean quality - look at 50 Shades of Grey.
Fascinating.

Two horses run in a three mile chase at level weights. One horse takes the lead, and goes 30 lengths clear of the other on the bridle while it’s opponent languishes behind being scrubbed along. The leader comes to the last, hardly takes off and falls. The horse way back in second comes through in its own time, jumps the last and is the only finisher. Is the horse that fell at the last the ‘best’ horse (in having more natural ability), or is the winner the best horse because, despite having less ability, completes the course?

My view is that the best horse in this scenario is the one who wins the race, because it overcame all obstacles to fulfil its objective (to win). The horse with the most ability didn’t win, so how can that horse be ‘better’ than the horse that beat it? Ability itself doesn’t always result in a win, because winning isn’t just about ability. Which is not to say the horse with the most ability cannot win; clearly it can. And often does.

We of course are the horse that fell at the last, because clearly we play the best football so have the most ability as a team. Here’s hoping this season we don’t fall, and that we scramble over the final fence and make it to the finishing line. Or better still, sail over the last and finish with a flourish as our jockey (Marcelo) waves his whip in excited vindication of his methods.

Bamford can clean his saddle 😁

User avatar
gessa
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22954
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:40 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by gessa » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:56 pm

I was just going to say , the team that play the nicest football, isn't necessarily the best team.

Norm
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6342
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 2:51 am
Location: SW Missouri USA

Re: The best team?

Post by Norm » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:01 pm

On second thoughts I'll give it a miss. A couple of reviews turned me off - never a movie buff anyway.

Norm
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6342
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 2:51 am
Location: SW Missouri USA

Re: The best team?

Post by Norm » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:06 pm

No sport is about the flashy stuff for 'best' - we've just won the 3 most important games this season imo and that's what champions are about - winning 'ugly' or however it's described.

Mick Jones shoulder
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:34 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by Mick Jones shoulder » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:10 pm

Ability and being a winner completely different things as stated in the horse reference. I think our play is better on the eye than any of the competition.

User avatar
Irish Ian
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3883
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: The best team?

Post by Irish Ian » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:51 pm

One our day we can be the best team, but I think the truth is that we are the hardest to play against. We have a great system on the pitch and players drilled in how to apply it. In time this core of players, Roberts, Harrison, Big Kev hopefully, Shacks, Poveda? Phillips, are young enough to grow to be a great Prem side. But back to this season.
But we have lost 8 games. Which is 4 too many imo.

West Brom are the best team because they have managed to find solutions to their many personnel problems and have kept on avoiding defeat. In many ways thanks to a manager who understands what is needed to be done when difficulties arise.

Fulham have the best players but have an average manager who drags them down.
But they are still dangerous and because they are the most experienced side are the most likely to go on a great run.
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins

User avatar
SaraM
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2864
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by SaraM » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:56 pm

Yeah, but we're Leeds and they're not.
In football, nothing is true, nothing is false.

danhirons
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1470
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by danhirons » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:22 pm

best in so many aspects just, crucially perhaps, not in attacking/finishing...

User avatar
onemoreslogan
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:48 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by onemoreslogan » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:32 am

They are the best team. This won't even be a question at season's end. They're winning this thing.

User avatar
rab_rant
Manager
Manager
Posts: 4818
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: The best team?

Post by rab_rant » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:08 am

Denman wrote: Fascinating.

Two horses run in a three mile chase at level weights. One horse takes the lead, and goes 30 lengths clear of the other on the bridle while it’s opponent languishes behind being scrubbed along. The leader comes to the last, hardly takes off and falls. The horse way back in second comes through in its own time, jumps the last and is the only finisher. Is the horse that fell at the last the ‘best’ horse (in having more natural ability), or is the winner the best horse because, despite having less ability, completes the course?

My view is that the best horse in this scenario is the one who wins the race, because it overcame all obstacles to fulfil its objective (to win). The horse with the most ability didn’t win, so how can that horse be ‘better’ than the horse that beat it? Ability itself doesn’t always result in a win, because winning isn’t just about ability. Which is not to say the horse with the most ability cannot win; clearly it can. And often does.

We of course are the horse that fell at the last, because clearly we play the best football so have the most ability as a team. Here’s hoping this season we don’t fall, and that we scramble over the final fence and make it to the finishing line. Or better still, sail over the last and finish with a flourish as our jockey (Marcelo) waves his whip in excited vindication of his methods.

Bamford can clean his saddle Image
Nice analogy... and it also brought to mind Tyson Fury and how he hauled himself out of depression and being grossly overweight to become the world heavyweight champion. I have listened to some of his candid interviews where he talks about mental health, and you have to admire someone who overcomes the depths of despair to become a champion.

I suppose you can draw parallels with Leeds United too, all epic stories have a dynamic duo (Don Quixote Sancho, Frodo Sam, Batman Robin, Elina Lila) so why not let the heroes of the Leeds story be Bielsa Bamford?

Without a vision for the future the people perish, so let's have a fairytale ending to our story.

Go on you know you want it.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


User avatar
SaraM
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2864
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The best team?

Post by SaraM » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:34 am

rab_rant wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:08 am
Without a vision for the future the people perish, so let's have a fairytale ending to our story.
A convincing narrative also has to make sense of the present; hope for the future has to include and take account of where we are. This must include the doubts and despairs which afflict us.

How can we be the best team when we struggle to score against the worst; how can Bielsa be a great manager when he fails to see what's seemingly obvious to everyone else, and stubbornly refuses to address it; how can we know we'll hold our nerve under pressure when we didn't last time?

These are the situations we have to weave into our story coherently to see our way through to the ending we desire. We seem to be presented with two poles; cold analysis and scepticism on the one hand, and wishful thinking and blind faith on the other.

I think you are right that the strength of the fairytale is to incorporate the shadow; we have to pass through the underworld to reach the light. Rather than the oppositional thinking of are we good enough or are we fatally flawed, there is a third way which understands our challenges and difficulties to be an essential ingredient of our strength and eventual triumph. They are the grist to the mill, and if they don't kill us, they will make us stronger.

Or we might find that our true home is in the underworld after all...
In football, nothing is true, nothing is false.

User avatar
HarryofOz
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 15761
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:46 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The best team?

Post by HarryofOz » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:04 am

gessa wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:08 pm
The best team are the one's that finish 1st after 46 games.
Without a doubt
We're going up like there is no gravity!

Post Reply

Advertisment