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weasel
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Re: Here we go again.........

Post by weasel »

SaraM wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:30 pm There's no evidence for this, it's just comforting to have someone to blame.
Indeed. Where were the spikes after the masses gathered on beaches, after illegal raves, after hundreds or thousands of fans celebrated in close proximity without masks?

Spikes are being blown out of all proportion. 1 person gets it and can easily pass it on to 30 people quickly without doing anything out of the ordinary. It doesn't mean that there is a problem as these people have been tested and know they have it so they will avoid spreading it. The reason it spread faster initially was because people weren't able to get tested so the virus spread. As such it is easier to slow down infections after spikes now without lockdowns - if anyone thinks the rate slowed in Oldham due to increased restrictions they are deluded as the vast majority of people still mingled with extended family, friends etc - it slowed because the majority of people who caught it were tested quickly and could then self isolate.

We now get ridiculous advice which suggest only people with symptoms should get tested as we still don't have enough testing capacity. This though can be catastrophic as if you have symptoms you are likely to self isolate regardless of whether you have had a test. If you don't have symptoms though you may have the virus and because you don't have symptoms and haven't been tested you will be far likelier to pass it on as you will be carrying on your normal business. What we need is increased testing whereby people who have no symptoms are regularly tested - just like what happened when football restarted and all the players were tested every couple of days even though they had no symptoms.
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Re: Coronavirus

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RIP Covid.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by SaraM »

Agree with your comments entirely, Weasel. I've said from day one widespread testing is what's needed. It seems likely that many more will have had it and recovered than is known, and that skews all the rest of the data.

I had it through Jan and Feb, numerous others were ill over Christmas. With proper antibody testing and research on immunity, those who have had it could be back to normal. I suspect we would also have a different view of how serious it is in that context.

It's not really a viral problem at all, it's an immunity problem. The vast majority of people are mildly affected, or not at all. Again, that would be the most productive line of research imo, but it's clearly more profitable to develop a vaccine, so that is the line we will take.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Data is all well and good, alas like statistics (which it basically is) can easily be manipulated simply by disagreeing and posting contrary opinion. Whilst everyone is using Canadian "stats" to show that covid is being exaggerated simple common sense can show, we do need to play our part in controlling the spread.
Since the reopening of schools (Sept) across the nation, we have 26 schools with outbreaks in Alberta (the province I reside in )alone. Contact tracing has shown that major events with large gathering, be it indoors or outdoors have added to the infected count. With the majority of these being the younger generations, why? because us older folk (for the most part) are limiting our movements away from residence to the minimum, wearing face masks and basically following a common sense approach.
To claim all that is being "advised" from the WHO, and scientist's worldwide is a violation of "civil rights" and some form of control by the deep state is nothing more than, well ludicrous.
Yes we suffer deaths from Cancer, Flu, and a myriad of other diseases, which no one complains about the research going on to eliminate them... What this virus does is accentuate existing controllable diseases due to the immune system being compromised, ergo it has to be included in the final figures.
Stay safe everyone.
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Re: Coronavirus

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All across Europe there is a pattern emerging. There has been a spike in the number of cases, that have reached the levels that existed in march, but there has been a vastly reduced number of deaths. More and more positive cases are turning out to be asymptomatic. Therefore positive cases do not progress to be an illness.

This paradox has been puzzling scientists all over Europe. Here is the latest video from France.

https://youtu.be/AsTv6iGPJHs

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Re: Here we go again.........

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SaraM wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:30 pm There's no evidence for this, it's just comforting to have someone to blame.
Of course there is evidence, you only have to open your eyes to see what has been occurring since July, another major spike was inevitable!

Since lockdown was eased millions of folk have become blase about this horrible virus, my god some people don't think Covid even exists :roll: the recent growth of infection didn't increase significantly by magic.

I suspect those poor souls who have lost family & friends through Covid would be horrified if they read some of the comments on this topic :shock: I have a LUFC good pal living locally who lost his sister-in-law to the virus, thank god he sticks to Facebook & doesn't come on here!
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by hector »

I read this...
My uncle died of this, and a long term family friend....

Like '64 has said, I am horrified, luckily I is a nice guy......
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Re: Coronavirus

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rab_rant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:14 pm All across Europe there is a pattern emerging. There has been a spike in the number of cases, that have reached the levels that existed in march, but there has been a vastly reduced number of deaths. More and more positive cases are turning out to be asymptomatic. Therefore positive cases do not progress to be an illness.

This paradox has been puzzling scientists all over Europe. Here is the latest video from France.

https://youtu.be/AsTv6iGPJHs

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My understanding Rab is that recent spikes have been in the majority amongst the younger generations, due to them ignoring the "rules", as their immune systems are better able to cope deaths have decreased, However good this maybe, the fact remains that it forces the older generation into further, deeper and (eventually) prolonged isolation along with those who's immune systems are compromised due to pre existing medical conditions.
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Re: Coronavirus

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hector wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:27 pm I read this...
My uncle died of this, and a long term family friend....

Like '64 has said, I am horrified, luckily I is a nice guy......
Condolences Hector, There are no words in these circumstances... Keep being the nice guy :tup:
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Re: Here we go again.........

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1964white wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:20 pm Of course there is evidence, you only have to open your eyes to see what has been occurring since July, another major spike was inevitable!

Since lockdown was eased millions of folk have become blase about this horrible virus, my god some people don't think Covid even exists :roll: the recent growth of infection didn't increase significantly by magic.
Concur '64.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Smudge3920 wrote: My understanding Rab is that recent spikes have been in the majority amongst the younger generations, due to them ignoring the "rules", as their immune systems are better able to cope deaths have decreased, However good this maybe, the fact remains that it forces the older generation into further, deeper and (eventually) prolonged isolation along with those who's immune systems are compromised due to pre existing medical conditions.
There are two possibilities, one that younger people have a stronger immune system and are therefore able to fight off the virus, or the virus itself has mutated and is not as severe as it once was. Perhaps both are true, but the fact of the matter at the moment is that cases do not correlate to deaths, which we should be thankful for.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Smudge3920 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:32 pm My understanding Rab is that recent spikes have been in the majority amongst the younger generations, due to them ignoring the "rules", as their immune systems are better able to cope deaths have decreased, However good this maybe, the fact remains that it forces the older generation into further, deeper and (eventually) prolonged isolation along with those who's immune systems are compromised due to pre existing medical conditions.
The trouble is though is that the virus won't simply go away whether 'young people' indulge in mass orgies or stay at home reading a book on their own. With the majority of people who catch the virus having no symptoms and displaying no signs of illness the risk is still there for the vulnerable regardless and as such if people don't want to catch it then they will have to suffer prolonged isolation regardless of what others are doing. The virus isn't going anywhere so people not mingling won't make it disappear more quickly. If anything people mingling and getting it will mean that they likely won't get it again so the risk for the more vulnerable would actually decrease if more young people got the virus and recovered.

Even if a vaccine is found I wouldn't be rushing to get it. Usually vaccines are tested for several years before they become available so that there are less potential side effects, which can sometimes cause more harm than the virus they are trying to stop. These vaccines are being rushed through with insufficient testing.
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Re: Here we go again.........

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Norm wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:27 am It doesn't mean that at all - it means that if he had covid19, the covid19 is not what killed him but the injuries from the car accident.
When it comes down to it, I really don't care what it says on the death certificate. Let's take that out of the argument.
Can you explain to me why we have had such a large number of deaths above the normal average this year.

What do you think is causing it?

New York Times August 12th 2020
Across the United States, at least 200,000 more people have died than usual since March, according to a New York Times analysis of estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. This is about 60,000 higher than the number of deaths that have been directly linked to the coronavirus.

As the pandemic has moved south and west from its epicenter in New York City, so have the unusual patterns in deaths from all causes. That suggests that the official death counts may be substantially underestimating the overall effects of the virus, as people die from the virus as well as by other causes linked to the pandemic.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Rab wrote ...
one that younger people have a stronger immune system and are therefore able to fight off the virus,
I think I said that... Semantics.
or the virus itself has mutated and is not as severe as it once was.
All viruses mutate, they are very intelligent.
but the fact of the matter at the moment is that cases do not correlate to deaths, which we should be thankful for.
Very thankful, but the reason for that is due to the older generation and those with pre existing illnesses and compromised immune systems ... following the suggested guidelines to avoid infection.

The one major break in this pandemic is the fact that the younger generations are for the most part immune to the lethal effects of this , ...as long as they have no pre existing illnesses that compromise the immune system.
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Re: Here we go again.........

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rab_rant wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:36 am just read that dentists are reporting problems from people wearing masks bad breath, receding gums, gingivitis tooth decay so dental hygiene is somehow being compromised.

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Dentists! It's not true. Rubbish! You're crazy if you believe what experts, health professionals and scientists tell you.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Weasel wrote ...
The virus isn't going anywhere
Concur.
If anything people mingling and getting it will mean that they likely won't get it again so the risk for the more vulnerable would actually decrease if more young people got the virus and recovered.
My mother made me go play with the kid down the street also who had "chickenpox" back in the day... As for not "getting it again" ... this was disproved months ago.

I concur with your thoughts re Vaccines, Trump is the main agitator in this process, the USA FDA and a myriad of scientists have disputed the reported time lines for a vaccine.
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Re: Here we go again.........

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BobHirst wrote: Dentists! It's not true. Rubbish! You're crazy if you believe what experts, health professionals and scientists tell you.
I suspect that you are having a jibe at me there but this is a clip from New York Post.

Some bad breath just can’t be covered up.

Now that dentists have reopened their doors, they’re having patients show up with a nasty set of symptoms, which the doctors have dubbed “mask mouth.”

The new oral hygiene issue — caused by, you guessed it, wearing a mask all the time to prevent the spread of the coronavirus — is leading to all kinds of dental disasters like decaying teeth, receding gum lines and seriously sour breath.

“We’re seeing inflammation in people’s gums that have been healthy forever, and cavities in people who have never had them before,” says Dr. Rob Ramondi, a dentist and co-founder of One Manhattan Dental. “About 50% of our patients are being impacted by this, [so] we decided to name it ‘mask mouth’ — after ‘meth mouth.’ ”



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Re: Coronavirus

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rab_rant wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:36 am
just read that dentists are reporting problems from people wearing masks bad breath, receding gums, gingivitis tooth decay so dental hygiene is somehow being compromised
Not me mate...I don't wear me teef with a mask :lol:

And Dentists don't pad their bills do they ... :rol:
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Re: Here we go again.........

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weasel wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:18 am It isn't though as those events would have brought a rise in cases there and then. not a few months later. There wasn't a spike in Liverpool after they celebrated winning the title, likewise there wasn't an immediate spike in Leeds after fans celebrated together after winning promotion.

What we have seen is something that was inevitable and that is that there would be spikes and outbreaks cropping up because the virus won't simply go away. That was why the lockdown was ineffective, simply a stalling tactic rather than a proper solution. Having spikes in many ways is actually a good thing as it means people are finding out quickly that they have the virus an can then act appropriately, i.e. self isolate for a couple of weeks. It also means more people are getting tested despite showing minimal symptoms as hospitals are not showing an increase in admissions. Whereas initially you had to have severe symptoms before you could get a test now people are getting tested if they have been in contact with someone who has the virus - as such it is very easy for 1 person to have given it to several people who then have been able to have a test and test positive despite no symptoms (in Oldham over 30 cases were linked to one household and their close friends and family). This means that a much larger outbreak can be slowed or stopped, it doesn't need lockdowns but just sensible behaviour from those who think they may have the virus.

We also have people going around with false confidence from wearing facemasks despite most scientific advise suggesting they don't make any difference. As such whereas before we saw restrictions on the amount of people in shops etc now it is just back to being a free for all with people wrongly assuming that because they have a mask on they are safe.

The main issue is still the same that people with weaker immune systems are still far more at risk than the general population that are as likely to die in a car crash as they are to die of covid - protect the vulnerable and let the rest of the country go on as normal and allow people to do stuff at their own risk - we aren't banning people from driving. Shutting down the economy and putting the country in lockdown will not stop the virus it will merely slow it down for a few weeks before it then comes back again - same as what has already happened. Why does this country simply repeat the same mistakes?
I agree with almost all of that.
The one thing I think you are wrong about is the use of face masks.
Here is some info from the Mayo Clinic in the USA. For anyone who doesn't know they are a very prestigious medical organisation comprising of hospitals., research facilities, medical schools etc.

Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19?
Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

These discoveries led public health groups to do an about-face on face masks. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) now include face masks in their recommendations for slowing the spread of the virus. The CDC recommends cloth face masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers.
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Re: Coronavirus

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hector wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:27 pm I read this...
My uncle died of this, and a long term family friend....

Like '64 has said, I am horrified, luckily I is a nice guy......
Condolences mate

I know my good pals wife took the loss of her sister very hard :(
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