Coronavirus

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SaraM
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by SaraM »

CDC, not CNC. You don't care what the official site says? Your mind is closed, then.

It's in here somewhere, but as you say, I won't waste any more time looking.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... talandrate
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Smudge3920
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

SaraM wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:04 pm CDC, not CNC. You don't care what the official site says? Your mind is closed, then.

It's in here somewhere, but as you say, I won't waste any more time looking.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracke ... talandrate
I realised your typo) Really my mind is closed... :lol: ... you have pre existing conditions Sara, by your own admission... should you be ignored also ?...

plus why did you ignore my comment...
You can add those with pre existing conditions or not... I choose to add them, as they were still living before they got the virus to boot...
?
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SaraM
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by SaraM »

Smudge3920 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:13 pm really my mind is closed... :lol: ... you have pre existing conditions Sara, by your own admission... should you be ignored also ?
I think you're (deliberately?) misunderstanding the point, which is that you can't say how many of those 200,000 people would have died anyway in that year, even without exposure to covid. That makes the figure meaningless as an indicator of the deadlines of the virus. Weasel has already pointed out to you that the figure is within the natural range of annual fluctuation.

The Infection Fatality Ratios by age group are as follows, again from the official site:

0-19 years: 0.00003
20-49 years: 0.0002
50-69 years: 0.005
70+ years: 0.054

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... arios.html#

None of this is to minimise the suffering of those who have lost loved ones, but you do a disservice by failing to use the figures properly. Exaggerating the effects of the disease is as bad as understating it imo.
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Smudge3920
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

Sarah Said...
which is that you can't say how many of those 200,000 people would have died anyway in that year, even without exposure to covid.
So please tell me how many?
The Infection Fatality Ratios by age group are as follows, again from the official site:
By ignoring those with pre existing conditions...
None of this is to minimise the suffering of those who have lost loved ones,
Yet you are... I would not say deliberately, you want to defend your position.
but you do a disservice by failing to use the figures properly.
Lol this is where, discussion's fall down...I believe I am you believe I am not...but not having the ability to quote deaths that would have happened...(see above) anyway without the virus, leaves me at a disadvantage to you Sara... Maybe using pre existing conditions as an excuse to down play numbers makes some feel better, not me I am afraid.
Exaggerating the effects of the disease is as bad as understating it imo.
So you are saying we are both wrong then? :lol:

I will not post things you have already read and decided on in regards to the CDC... I will assume you have read the papers released last month, that actually confirm the Trump administrations manipulation of the CDC...i.e forcing the CDC to reword policy decisions etc etc... if you have not I suggest you research them... it all began with Trump ordering them to reduce testing ... so the infection rate numbers will lower :lol:
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Re: Here we go again.........

Post by whiteswan »

Broad Ford wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:41 pm The economy, British peoples businesses and civil liberties need protecting too. Would you suggest that everybody, ie, industry and emergency workers, shop, bank staff and utility workers, etc, etc, all stay at home for a month or two where the virus can then burn itself out once and for all? Imagine a ghost town where nothing moves, would this be the way to stamp out the virus?

I can't change my thinking that a global virus needs a global solution, delivered by a global governing body to a global population paralised by fear of infection. The only hope of a return to normality is to accept the proposed solution of a temporary lockdown (6 months and counting) and a vaccine to ensure that you are not dangerous to others after lockdown ends. The problem for me is that where crowds gather folk will need a digital pass to gain access, or entry is denied. Imagine trying to enter supermarkets, schools, universities, football stadiums or using public transport without a digital pass showing vaccination? Is cash to be phased out and replaced with a digital currency because of a risk of infected bank notes and coins. It would seem the globalists are at work and we need to be vigilant.
You obviously didnt read the post I responded to. Absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote about in your post above.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Peter in Blackpool »

SaraM wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:39 pm I would do anything to help anyone, I'd give you my last groat, but I'm not going to accept something purely on authority when it seems to me to be wrong or pointless.
Sara, there are many rules in society that its citizens may not agree with. However, we cannot pick and choose which ones to follow and which ones to ignore. Rules made by a democratically elected government have to be obeyed no matter what the subject and no matter what you personally feel about it.

Some people think class a drugs should be legalised, but that does not make them immune to arrest if caught in possession. Similarly, if a pub now opens after 10pm, no matter what the personal viewpoint of the landlord, he will still get a massive fine and possibly even lose his licence.

Anybody, no matter whether they agree with the law or not has to obey the lockdown laws or face punishment. Just the other day a woman was jailed on the iom for breaking self isolation laws.

I would however never challenge people not wearing a mask as they may have a very good personal reason for not doing so, but if my neighbour allowed visitors into his home i would certainly report him to the Police.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Chilli D »

Perhaps we should ask Kate Garroway if we should be taking COVID seriously?
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Smudge3920
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

Just heard on CNN ...(local time 0337hrs mnt)...
9th minor died from Corona virus in Florida... sad, very sad

Convert to a statistic, it will soon become irrelevant... :evil:
Last edited by Smudge3920 on Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by rab_rant »

There will always be conflicts between the individuals conscience and the law of the land.

In Finland there is conscription and all the young men have to go into the army, but if they are conscientious objectors then they can perform some social service. It is a matter of conscience.

In a book by Mark twain Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn help an escaped slave to get his freedom. The law of the land said that escaped slaves should be returned to their masters, the boys disobeyed this law and helped the slave to escape.

Neighbors informing on neighbors is about the most despicable thing I can think of... reminds me of the gulag archipelago and the midnight knock at the door, and people being taken away for no reason. You can only hope that neighbors don't report on you for some spurious reason.

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Last edited by rab_rant on Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by rab_rant »

Smudge3920 wrote:Just heard on CNN ...(local time 0337hrs mnt)...
9th minor died from Corona virus in Florida... sad, very sad

Convert to a statistic, it will soon become irrelevant... :evil:
Everybody mourns their dead, and there are more deaths from suicides, road accidents, and cancer, than there are from Covid, yet we are not accused of being insensitive because we ignore these deaths.

All deaths cause grief and sorrow, but you seem to want to make covid deaths a special case that should be mourned more than any other death.

Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones ("argument from passion") is a logical fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument.

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Smudge3920
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

Rab... this is a very serious point you raise and a valid one. You cannot ignore an individuals conscience and beliefs. The problem lies in times of crisis, how does the government validate the consciences (a cognative process) and beliefs of individual's (moral philosophy or value system).

The two examples you use are fine examples, of disobeying the law, however you go onto to state...
Neighbors informing on neighbors is about the most despicable thing I can think of.
...

Whilst on the face of it, it would appear despicable, yet what if the said neighbour was grooming children?... or... selling drugs to minors?
Would you feel the same?

I know the answer, of course you wouldn't.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

rab_rant wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:00 am Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones ("argument from passion") is a logical fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk
:lol: nice try Rab... I was not trying to manipulate your emotions (ego?)... I posted a fact and stated an opinion...
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by wilsdenwhite »

Smudge3920 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:03 am Rab... this is a very serious point you raise and a valid one. You cannot ignore an individuals conscience and beliefs. The problem lies in times of crisis, how does the government validate the consciences (a cognative process) and beliefs of individual's (moral philosophy or value system).

The two examples you use are fine examples, of disobeying the law, however you go onto to state...
...

Whilst on the face of it, it would appear despicable, yet what if the said neighbour was grooming children?... or... selling drugs to minors?
Would you feel the same?

I know the answer, of course you wouldn't.
Or supported Man U.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

wilsdenwhite wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:12 am Or supported Man U.
...
Ah Avoidance...Whilst a valid reason to report anyone, still avoidance by humour... "“A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.”
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Re: Here we go again.........

Post by Broad Ford »

whiteswan wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:09 am You obviously didnt read the post I responded to. Absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote about in your post above.
I'll try to explain a little better.

Keeping vulnerable family members safe from the virus would mean that I couldn't attend work anymore. Reasons are that although my employer has lots of measures in place aimed at reducing the spread of infection, should I follow the rules precisely my workplace would grind to a near halt. I'm sure others at work see a similar situation and cannot risk losing their job keeping 2 meters apart, washing hands and opening doors with feet. Even if one followed the measures in place 100% one could still contract and bring the virus home, after using transport or using a public lavatory.

The only way to stop vulnerable people from contracting this virus is to support them whilst they separate from the healthy. Virtually wrecking the economy and peoples life savings through a general lockdown isn't fair and neither is life after bankruptcy.

All I ask is for the healthy to be allowed to work and socialize, whilst government fully supports the vulnerable in society as they shield themselves from harm. A general lockdown is enforced to control a virus spreading, yet controls people, their movements, their lives and futures.

It's time the people used our great British democracy to push back at government and regain the turf we lost beginning with our home grounds.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by weasel »

Smudge3920 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:04 pm I am sure when you put it that way Weasel, the 200,000 families will realise that their grieving is being nothing but selfish. After all 0.06% is nothing at all is it?...

When you start putting people's lives into numbers, then start using death rates (new) as a percentage with the small variances over several years, with a baseline of 328Million, you make it seem like your argument is solid... Yet... 200,000 families (in 2020 in the USA)) would vehemently disagree with you... Why is that?

Mark Twain said it best...
"There are three kind of lies...lies, damned lies and statistics"

however at the end of day, it is still 0.06% (new) deaths or 200,000 (new) deaths due to the corona virus is it not?

(0.06% X 328,000,000 = 196,800)
New deaths do not neccesarily equate to new deaths from Cornona. Given that the average age of 'covid related' deaths in the majority of countries is 85 years old then the isolated figure doesn't take into account how many of the suppossed extra deaths would have happened anyway. It may come as shock but as people get older they are more at risk of dying from any number of reasons. As I stated the annual variance in death rates goes up and down so to simply claim 200,000 extra deaths doesn't simply mean these people died solely through coronavirus. Given that many people are too frightened to risk seeing their doctor or going into hospitals as they don't want to catch Covid then many extra deaths are happening that aren't covid deaths.

Still it doesn't matter as you have your head buried in the sand and it wouldn't matter what anyone told you.
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Re: Here we go again.........

Post by Smudge3920 »

Broad Ford wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:25 am I'll try to explain a little better.
I really do appreciate the point you are trying to make mate... It is one that whilst not being overlooked is being used by some to create more panic and downplay the virus.
I have said several times, we have not yet even begun to scratch the surface on the economic effect and fall out from this pandemic.

It is a very serious consequence being hit by , well let's be honest nature. It will create diversity and misery... lets hope we try to resolve it without turning on each other.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

weasel wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:32 am New deaths do not neccesarily equate to new deaths from Cornona. Given that the average age of 'covid related' deaths in the majority of countries is 85 years old then the isolated figure doesn't take into account how many of the suppossed extra deaths would have happened anyway. It may come as shock but as people get older they are more at risk of dying from any number of reasons. As I stated the annual variance in death rates goes up and down so to simply claim 200,000 extra deaths doesn't simply mean these people died solely through coronavirus. Given that many people are too frightened to risk seeing their doctor or going into hospitals as they don't want to catch Covid then many extra deaths are happening that aren't covid deaths.

Still it doesn't matter as you have your head buried in the sand and it wouldn't matter what anyone told you.
The problem with threads like this is, repetitiveness... Sara joined in earlier please see my answer to her post below, you and her are practically using the same responses.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smudge3920 »

Anyway ...for now ...game time ...come on you Leeds lets take it to the Blunts ... :scarfe2: :scarfe2: :scarfe2:
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by liggy »

Good to see we have 1 or 2 doctors here
Last time i went to docs he told me not to put me tongue back in me heed because I’ll poison myself
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