Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by danhirons »

John in Louisiana wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:03 pm Interesting, the season-long totals.

If we had a vote right now for MOTY, it would be Pablo in a landslide.
i'm not so sure! I think there are a lot of other big candidates who have been consistently excellent over the season - obviously pabs gets the glory for the crucial goals and assists but has played quite sparingly this season

i'd have quite a few others ahead of him on my poty vote
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by rrfierce »

didn't watch the game but surely its pablo? :)
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by Overman »

I think Augustin would be snapping at his heels for that accolade.
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by Norm »

danhirons wrote:
i'm not so sure! I think there are a lot of other big candidates who have been consistently excellent over the season - obviously pabs gets the glory for the crucial goals and assists but has played quite sparingly this season

i'd have quite a few others ahead of him on my poty vote
Not knocking your POV Dan, but Pablo is our talisman - he's got crucial things right at crucial times and that's what game-changers do.
Let's see how the next 3 games go. Frankly I don't care as long as we achieve our aim but I reckon without Pablo's influence we wouldn't be where we are. His fire and determination (and his background talks and coaching younger players) have influenced our season massively and I'm not sure how we will replace him when the time comes - unless he agrees to take a coaching position with us that is.
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by 60sUnited »

Pablo
White
Cooper
Messier
Keith
Ayling
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by danhirons »

Norm wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:12 am Not knocking your POV Dan, but Pablo is our talisman - he's got crucial things right at crucial times and that's what game-changers do.
Let's see how the next 3 games go. Frankly I don't care as long as we achieve our aim but I reckon without Pablo's influence we wouldn't be where we are. His fire and determination (and his background talks and coaching younger players) have influenced our season massively and I'm not sure how we will replace him when the time comes - unless he agrees to take a coaching position with us that is.
not a problem! and didnt mean to knock pabs too - his creativity and class is a cut above the rest and has shown since the break - just wish we had a younger version of him! :)
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by Norm »

danhirons
not a problem! and didnt mean to knock pabs too - his creativity and class is a cut above the rest and has shown since the break - just wish we had a younger version of him! :)
Agree with the 'younger version' bit mate - unless we have somebody coming through from the ranks. From what I've heard from some on here, there could be a couple of academy lads who might grow into the role.
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by 1964white »

Norm wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:12 am Not knocking your POV Dan, but Pablo is our talisman - he's got crucial things right at crucial times and that's what game-changers do.
Let's see how the next 3 games go. Frankly I don't care as long as we achieve our aim but I reckon without Pablo's influence we wouldn't be where we are. His fire and determination (and his background talks and coaching younger players) have influenced our season massively and I'm not sure how we will replace him when the time comes - unless he agrees to take a coaching position with us that is.
Correct Norm :tup: without Pablo we'd wouldn't be where we are now.

I posted up our win % rate previously that when Pablo isn't involved due to injury it is significantly lower without his influential guile

Everyone's favourite Klich is not the same player without Hernandez beside him.

Pablo has scored/made more goals/assists making 10 appearances less than Klich & Harrison plus any other player apart from Bamford (which is to be expected because of his goals as a No.9)

Pablo is our only true game-changer off the bench

Pablo is our best player since our prem days being consistently influential over a period of years since we signed our little magician, now he's being compared to the great Gordon Strachan by some of our fans.

Why should he not be LUFC's player of the season ?
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by danhirons »

1964white wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:36 am Correct Norm :tup: without Pablo we'd wouldn't be where we are now.

I posted up our win % rate previously that when Pablo isn't involved due to injury it is significantly lower without his influential guile

Everyone's favourite Klich is not the same player without Hernandez beside him.

Pablo has scored/made more goals/assists making 10 appearances less than Klich & Harrison plus any other player apart from Bamford (which is to be expected because of his goals as a No.9)

Pablo is our only true game-changer off the bench

Pablo is our best player since our prem days being consistently influential over a period of years since we signed our little magician, now he's being compared to the great Gordon Strachan by some of our fans.

Why should he not be LUFC's player of the season ?
I'm not trying to take anything away from pabs, he's been class lately, but it's also that thing where you get so much credit for goals/assists but nothing for keeping a clean sheet etc. I also think he's blown hot and cold this season - admittedly has been awesome the last few games. 8 goals and 7 assists is decent but nothing special.

For me I'd put pretty much the whole back four ahead of him on my POTY list - ayling, coops, white and dallas have basically played every single game and been consistently awesome the whole season and yet you can't really measure this in terms of individual contribution. Add KP to that list too and klich somewhere on a par with him.

I guess pabs has really turned up the last few games when we've needed him - which is great - but I actually think he's a bit overrated if I'm honest (and I know i'll probably get slated for this but it's just my opinion!). Only real naturally creative player we have though.
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by faaip »

Hernandez - 72
White - 49
Meslier - 35
Cooper - 29
Phillips - 19
Ayling - 14
Costa - 8
Klich - 4
Bamford - 1
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by John in Louisiana »

danhirons wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:43 am 8 goals and 7 assists is decent but nothing special.

The goals and assists tell only part of the story with Pablo. He reminds me of the great basketball player Magic Johnson in the way he makes everyone around him better. Klich (as 1964white noted) is an obvious example of someone who is significantly better for having Pablo alongside. We are a significantly better side with him in the lineup; he makes more of a difference than any other player on the club.

Or in the league, for that matter.
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

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Does not Klich make Hernandez better? ..Phillips also? It's a three, take one out and the other two are lesser.
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

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faaip wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:29 am Does not Klich make Hernandez better? ..Phillips also? It's a three, take one out and the other two are lesser.
Spot on
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by faaip »

I won't be moaning if, when we come to the player of the season vote, voters vote for any of the three midfielders or White or even Dallas as their player of the season..Tough to split them, be glad we have so many candidates this year...

We've had a few seasons where there's such an obvious choice it's a one horse race..Those are the seasons we finish mid table. Also if Pablo is fit for Cardiff we maybe don't stumble on this genius tactic of a second half of Pablo against tiring defences, he's played every second half since IIRC so he's clearly fit enough to start and go 80 at least..
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by faaip »

Hernandez - 83
White - 60
Meslier - 43
Cooper - 33
Phillips - 22
Ayling - 18
Costa - 9
Klich - 4
Bamford - 1
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by 1964white »

faaip wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:42 am What's our win rate without Klich?
Klich has played every game under Bielsa so is obviously going to be less than Pablo

My point is we miss Pablo badly when he is unavailable, that maybe the case with Klich if he has periods out of our first XI at sometime
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

Post by faaip »

Exactly my point...and one that makes the Pablo stat redundant.
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Re: Swansea City v Leeds United - 0-1 - MOTM

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faaip wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:29 am Does not Klich make Hernandez better? ..Phillips also? It's a three, take one out and the other two are lesser.
And that in a nutshell is why Bielsa doesn't chop and change when players have dips in form. He knows that players like the familiarity of playing with the same players week in, week out and that knowing what other players on the pitch are going to be doing makes a player's job easier as they can become more automatic, playing a pass that they know their teammate will be anticipating rather than getting the ball and having to look around for options.
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