Our front three...

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CHAPELALLMAN
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Our front three...

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

So our current front three - Bamford, Costa and Harrison managed a grand total of 26 goals last season ( 16 for Bamford, 6 for Harrison and 4 for costa ) If you add the combined total of appearances for all three players, it comes to a grand total of 134. So that works out at an average of one goal every 5.15 games for all three players combined - and these are our front three players. In most seasons the leading scorer alone of a Championship winning team would have scored 26 or more goals. Then you have the issue that Costa and Harrison have not exactly been accurate crossers of the ball either.

Promotion has been fantastic, but are we seriously expecting to survive in the PL with these kind of statistics ?

So what can be done to improve this situation ? Even decent Championship strikers in the domestic market cost a fortune, and we have already had our fingers well and truly burnt over the JKA deal...I am alarmed by the fact that seemingly we are going to be mainly relying on Bamford to produce the goods in the PL - his current record in the PL is one goal in 27 games.
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by herefordbornleedsboy »

CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:50 am So our current front three - Bamford, Costa and Harrison managed a grand total of 26 goals last season ( 16 for Bamford, 6 for Harrison and 4 for costa ) If you add the combined total of appearances for all three players, it comes to a grand total of 134. So that works out at an average of one goal every 5.15 games for all three players combined - and these are our front three players. In most seasons the leading scorer alone of a Championship winning team would have scored 26 or more goals. Then you have the issue that Costa and Harrison have not exactly been accurate crossers of the ball either.

Promotion has been fantastic, but are we seriously expecting to survive in the PL with these kind of statistics ?

So what can be done to improve this situation ? Even decent Championship strikers in the domestic market cost a fortune, and we have already had our fingers well and truly burnt over the JFK deal...I am alarmed by the fact that seemingly we are going to be mainly relying on Bamford to produce the goods in the PL - his current record in the PL is one goal in 27 games.
Agree that those statistics are concerning HOWEVER, it completely neglects to take into consideration the intricacies lf Bielsas system. It is just as likely that our full backs are going to pop up in the box as it is our wingers. More concerning for me would looking at the big chances missed (of which there were plenty). The other thing about the system we play is it is NEVER about the individual and ALWAYS about the collective. Yes Bamford maybe hasn't been as efficient in front of goal as we would have liked but we saw at points this season how important he is for the collective effort (the same can be said for Costa and Harrison).

The other thing to bear in mind is we still have our transfer business to do. I think Radz/Orta/Bielsa are all fully aware that we need some more firepower now that we are back in the promised land.

And finally, despite all of this we still finished the season only 3 goals shy of the much praised Brentford attacking unit so how pooor must their return have been from other areas?
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Re: Our front three...

Post by Byebyegeegee »

herefordbornleedsboy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:05 am Agree that those statistics are concerning HOWEVER, it completely neglects to take into consideration the intricacies lf Bielsas system. It is just as likely that our full backs are going to pop up in the box as it is our wingers. More concerning for me would looking at the big chances missed (of which there were plenty). The other thing about the system we play is it is NEVER about the individual and ALWAYS about the collective. Yes Bamford maybe hasn't been as efficient in front of goal as we would have liked but we saw at points this season how important he is for the collective effort (the same can be said for Costa and Harrison).

The other thing to bear in mind is we still have our transfer business to do. I think Radz/Orta/Bielsa are all fully aware that we need some more firepower now that we are back in the promised land.

And finally, despite all of this we still finished the season only 3 goals shy of the much praised Brentford attacking unit so how pooor must their return have been from other areas?
I agree with all this Hereford.

It’s true that Bamford’s all round game suits Bielsa’s system, he runs around tirelessly closing down anywhere and everywhere in the opponents half, making decoy runs to distract defenders etc and is often found in defence heading the ball away at corners, so it’s not really surprising that he’s often not where he should be in the box to get on the end of crosses etc.

But as you say the part of his game that is the main problem and that we can’t afford to ignore in the Premiership, is that he is nowhere near clinical enough when he does get goal scoring opportunities, the number of relatively easy chances he misses is a major concern and I believe is more often than not due to the fact that he is so one footed. If he could use his right foot as well (or even half as well) as his left he would score a lot more goals and may well be good enough for the Premiership. But as it is, well!
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Re: Our front three...

Post by Leeds1000 »

Its a massive concern at present. I think we are probably more like Norwich than Sheff U in the way we approach the game. We only really score from open play, and depending on who we sign at CB, could be vulnerable at set-pieces. I am sure Bielsa will be watching plenty of PL games and targeting certain teams.

I think we lack a bit of physicality throughout our team and that will be something to keep a eye on aswell. If i remember right? i think we played Arsenal off the park first half, but they upped their physical presence second half and took the game away from us. Its going to be a great rollercoaster ride for sure.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by talkshowhost »

Maintaining a connection with the thread title, enables us to compare like for like. The Brentford front 3 scored ( I believe) 51 goals between them, whilst our own boys managed 26. PB scored in 13 games from 46 (including 10 games without a goal). Not good enough for mine.

Whilst the above poster makes very valid points in highlighting the greater contribution from LUFC players in other areas of at the pitch, which suggests that the Brentford hierarchy might need to consider an over reliance on their much vaunted trio of attackers, it does not (IMO) fully counter the implications in the opening post - specifically that our own trio are far from being much vaunted by anyone.

Personally, I do not believe that Bielsa's tactical nous/approach can be solely implicated. It is probably a contributory factor in why there is such a positive comparison (with the Bees) in the ability to spread goals around the team - but I feel that our failures in front of goal are more indicative of a clear and chronic failure to convert the numerous chances created. This has been commented upon numerous times by the great man himself. I recall vividly his observations after a televised match on Sky sports when asked if yet another catalogue of missed (glaring) opportunities had deprived the team of more points. As he succinctly and concisely stated............

" We must consider the stars and the heavens in trying to analyse this contest between two very strong opponents. In this great contest we created many many opportunities to do danger to the opponent who did not themselves manage to create similar opportunities to do danger to us - although Patrick suffered retinal damage to his left eye when the floodlight temporarily dropped thirty kilometres and shone on his beautiful little face at the wrong moment. This I believe represents the hand of God, who, too many times this season - and indeed last season - has chosen to influence proceedings at the precise moment when we are anticipating our offensive players to tap the ball over the line from 2 yards."

Cue Salim "The great man he say, " Our strikers are fairly average if not crap at scoring the goals"

I agree that our own hierarchy will know that we need better up front - as I do not believe we can rely on the sustainability of our back four (minus Ben) to continue to dilute the potential costs and damage of the coaches ongoing inability to solve the problems with the players currently in situ. We simply must sign a proven goal scorer IMO.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by WestgateRun »

In a typical game in the Championship, we dominated possession and created many goal chances.
In the Premier League, we will not dominate possession and will have less goal chances. We need a striker who can find the net.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by 1964white »

I doubt very much we'll start with that actual front three in the premiership

How many chances did Bamford, Harrison & Costa miss last season, doesn't bear thinking about :shock:

Klich needs to get his shooting boots on too!

We got away with that paltry amount of goals in the championship, the prem is a completely different ball game, we witnessed that when we outplayed Arsenal in the cup where had we taken our chances we'd have won that game easily. Gooners had one chance & took it even though it was a scrappy goal

Chances will be much fewer next season in the premier league so we'll have to be much more clinical
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Re: Our front three...

Post by Fridge »

WestgateRun wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:19 am In a typical game in the Championship, we dominated possession and created many goal chances.
In the Premier League, we will not dominate possession and will have less goal chances. We need a striker who can find the net.
Exactly this.

Can’t fault Bamford for his work rate but he simply doesn’t put enough chances away.

It’s all well and good that Bobby Firmino at Liverpool works hard for the team and only netted 9 this season, but their front three scored a combined 46 goals.

If Costa and Harrison aren’t going to get the goals, then we need a striker who can.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

Our front 3 won us the league by 10 points. MOT!
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Re: Our front three...

Post by 1964white »

andrewjohnsmith wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:33 pm Our front 3 won us the league by 10 points. MOT!
Not one of them even came close to being player of the season

Our best players were the ones behind them
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Re: Our front three...

Post by faaip »

Due to my self enforced ban I cannot comment on any of the front three...suffice to say it should be a fairly simple solution
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Re: Our front three...

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faaip wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:21 pm Due to my self enforced ban I cannot comment on any of the front three...suffice to say it should be a fairly simple solution
What self enforced ban :lol:
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Re: Our front three...

Post by Overman »

I'm sure the wheels are in motion in terms of bringing in the quality required to play in the Premiership. I don't mean to be overly pessimistic, but I really can't see the three of them having much of an impact in the Premiership. Additions clearly needed, otherwise it could be a long hard season.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by 1964white »

Overman wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:29 pm I'm sure the wheels are in motion in terms of bringing in the quality required to play in the Premiership. I don't mean to be overly pessimistic, but I really can't see the three of them having much of an impact in the Premiership. Additions clearly needed, otherwise it could be a long hard season.
Bench players which are an important part of the squad

At times last season we didn't have a bench, was full of kids who require time to fulfil their potential
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Re: Our front three...

Post by Cjay »

We know we need more quality in the final 3rd.

Costa, Harrison and Bamford didnt score the amount of goals the front 3 of a team that won the league should, heck 35 year old Pablo outscored and assisted both Costa and Harrison in far less minutes.

I am delighted JH is a loan as far from convinced he is Prem quality, yes he works hard yes he is only just 23 nearly 24 but the same was said about Dallas while we tried to convince ourselves he was a winger.

23 isnt that young, Watkins, Mbuemo, Bowen, Buendia, many wingers have outscored and been far more creative then JH at a similar age.

In fact id say Poveda showed more composure and threat in his brief cameos then JH and Costa, far more direct.

Imo 2 of our front 3 at least cant be starting in the Prem. We need to upgrade Paddy and Harrison and probably Costa to but i see Poveda as that option going forward.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by 1964white »

Cjay wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:46 pm We know we need more quality in the final 3rd.

Costa, Harrison and Bamford didnt score the amount of goals the front 3 of a team that won the league should, heck 35 year old Pablo outscored and assisted both Costa and Harrison in far less minutes.

I am delighted JH is a loan as far from convinced he is Prem quality, yes he works hard yes he is only just 23 nearly 24 but the same was said about Dallas while we tried to convince ourselves he was a winger.

23 isnt that young, Watkins, Mbuemo, Bowen, Buendia, many wingers have outscored and been far more creative then JH at a similar age.

In fact id say Poveda showed more composure and threat in his brief cameos then JH and Costa, far more direct.

Imo 2 of our front 3 at least cant be starting in the Prem. We need to upgrade Paddy and Harrison and probably Costa to but i see Poveda as that option going forward.
They'll be subs mate, nice to have as decent back-up

Bielsa knows the score, Marcelo is not that naive he'll realise the need for more quality I have absolutely no doubt about that.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by talkshowhost »

1964white wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:53 pm They'll be subs mate, nice to have as decent back-up

Bielsa knows the score, Marcelo is not that naive he'll realise the need for more quality I have absolutely no doubt about that.
Hope you are right mate - my only concern, on all three fronts, is this

Marcelo seems to see qualities in PB that are mostly hidden to the majority of commentators. I do not see all this incredible running about that many speak of, and , even if I did, I would rather see him nearer the box ready to finish like true strikers can/and do. I just cannot see Bielsa not starting with him. Hope I am fretting unnecessarily.

The figures quoted to bring Costain permanently seem excessive on the evidence to date - but are nonetheless very substantial for someone destined to warm the bench

Finally, as with Bamford, MB appears to view JH as an integral part of his game plan. Would Jack not have enquired about game time prior to extending his loan in the prem?

Who knows? As you suggest, MB is certainly not naïve - but undoubtedly he has stuck with PB after barren runs when other managers would more than likely have effected a change
of personnel- particularly as this has resulted in many points being lost which, in other circumstances, may have proved costly. Ain't got long to wait to find out. :tup:
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Re: Our front three...

Post by Byebyegeegee »

As a front three I don’t think they are that bad. They’ve all got their plus points, Bamfords willingness to work none stop, Harrison’s 1st touch, close control, and defensive work and Costas dribbling and speed.

Harrison needs to work on his final ball as does Costa for that matter, but the problem they all have in common is that they are not clinical enough or show enough composure when faced with a goal scoring opportunity.

Personally I rate Harrison, and whilst he must have hit the woodwork 5 or 6 times so you could say he’s been unlucky not to double his goal tally, all 3 have missed some relatively easy chances this season. I suppose as a winger you might be able to get away with a few misses but unfortunately if you’re a main striker you can’t. Therefore I believe Bamford to be more culpable than the others.
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Re: Our front three...

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

1964white wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:40 pm Not one of them even came close to being player of the season

Our best players were the ones behind them
I stand by my comment. There's a strong possibility they'll all be starters again next year. Bielsa doesn't like sweeping changes and we've got more urgent needs at the back. I'm not saying we don't need upgrades upfront, but I think they'll be gradual upgrades. The best I can see is an exciting No. 10 - hopefully a 20 goal guy.

So, for now, Vamos CBH Carajo! MOT!
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Re: Our front three...

Post by 1964white »

andrewjohnsmith wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:38 pm I stand by my comment. There's a strong possibility they'll all be starters again next year. Bielsa doesn't like sweeping changes and we've got more urgent needs at the back. I'm not saying we don't need upgrades upfront, but I think they'll be gradual upgrades. The best I can see is an exciting No. 10 - hopefully a 20 goal guy
So, for now, Vamos CBH Carajo! MOT!
That would be nice as at present apart from Pablo we haven't got a midfielder capable or prolific enough of scoring double-figures let alone 20 goals.
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