The Harrison Dilemma

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andrewjohnsmith
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

rab_rant wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:50 am Poveda looks really good when he is traveling at pace and going forward towards the byline... however if he cuts inside, as he did yesterday then he looks rather lightweight if someone stands him off, and can be easily robbed of the ball. Both him and Alioski are of a similar build and seem not to do well against big physical opponents.

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Poveda and Alioski both offer something similar. They come on well late in games, running at tired defences and putting teams on the back foot when they're trying to get forward. In Alioski's case I think it's just that this is as good as he'll get. In Poveda's, it's that he's still developing his game and should develop into a 90 minute impact player - probably some time this season.

That said though, we started against the Blunts with 3 CB's and Dallas in midfield, which pushed Costa and Harrison into deeper wing back positions. If we line up like that against Citeh, then it has to be Alioski on the left wing. Then again, they don't have any strikers, so who knows what kind of formation Bielsa will go with. He might start Poveda and Rodrigo and try to throw the kitchen sink at them.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

Post by HarryofOz »

andrewjohnsmith wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:01 pm I'm kind of thinking the same on Pablo. After the break. Best case might be a spot on the bench against City.
I'm wondering what role Pablo will play once he is back. Assuming we continue 4-1-4-1 (and there's no reason to assume otherwise) with Bambord up-front that leaves four spots for Costa, Klich, Harrison, Rodrigo, Roberts and Pablo. Not to mention the likes of Poveda and any new signings we make.

Bielsa did use Pablo off the bench at the end of last season, so is he going to do the same? Or will we even see a range of starting midfields this season? And possibly even Paddy rested now and again.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

Post by Lumiukko »

I have a funny feeling Bielsa has some new formations up his sleeve this season to counter any teams working out his usual 4-1-4-1 transition to 3-3-3-1 formation. The purchase of Llorente, Rodrigo, and expected CAM (Koch was like for like with White) has me wondering if he has ideas to sometimes play a 3CB formation (like the start against the Blunts) with Llorente, Coops, Koch? Also perhaps he has designs on a 2 up top sometimes with Rodders and Bamford (especially if we get a new CAM)? Though they will also fill gaps as injuries and suspensions come to the fore, these high pedigree signings clearly cannot be just bench-warmers. I wouldn't put it past Bielsa to have some magical new idea.

For Pablo, he will have a big part to play this season, but I expect him to be an impact sub in the second half.

Back to the topic in hand, the "Harrison dilemma", I expect minimal changes for the game with the following starters:

Meslier
Ayling Koch Cooper Dallas
KP
Klich Rodrigo
Poveda Bamford Costa

I'd expect, depending on circumstances a possible sub in for Llorente, Shacks, Alioski, or Struijk (Pablo apparently has no chance of making the bench until after the international break).
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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With a name like lumiukko do you have a Finnish connection?

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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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Lumiukko wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:03 am I have a funny feeling Bielsa has some new formations up his sleeve this season to counter any teams working out his usual 4-1-4-1 transition to 3-3-3-1 formation. The purchase of Llorente, Rodrigo, and expected CAM (Koch was like for like with White) has me wondering if he has ideas to sometimes play a 3CB formation (like the start against the Blunts) with Llorente, Coops, Koch? Also perhaps he has designs on a 2 up top sometimes with Rodders and Bamford (especially if we get a new CAM)? Though they will also fill gaps as injuries and suspensions come to the fore, these high pedigree signings clearly cannot be just bench-warmers. I wouldn't put it past Bielsa to have some magical new idea.

For Pablo, he will have a big part to play this season, but I expect him to be an impact sub in the second half.

Back to the topic in hand, the "Harrison dilemma", I expect minimal changes for the game with the following starters:

Meslier
Ayling Koch Cooper Dallas
KP
Klich Rodrigo
Poveda Bamford Costa

I'd expect, depending on circumstances a possible sub in for Llorente, Shacks, Alioski, or Struijk (Pablo apparently has no chance of making the bench until after the international break).
After the Blunts game, it's pretty clear that Bielsa is going to be flexible with his formations this year. Not very often you see an assymetric set up with a free floating LWB (Dallas) and a free floating DCR (Ayling). We know the 4-1-4-1 well. The U-23's have played 3 central defenders in all 3 games this season, maybe hinting at the way forward. I was surprised that we've been exploring more central midfielders in the transfer market, but I think it juts says even more about how Bielsa wants to keep switching up his formations.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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HarryofOz wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:35 am I'm wondering what role Pablo will play once he is back. Assuming we continue 4-1-4-1 (and there's no reason to assume otherwise) with Bambord up-front that leaves four spots for Costa, Klich, Harrison, Rodrigo, Roberts and Pablo. Not to mention the likes of Poveda and any new signings we make.

Bielsa did use Pablo off the bench at the end of last season, so is he going to do the same? Or will we even see a range of starting midfields this season? And possibly even Paddy rested now and again.
I think Pablo's future at Leeds will be as a short impact player. We saw it a lot in the Championship run in. He'll be most effective coming off the bench against a tiring opposition.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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andrewjohnsmith wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:08 am I think Pablo's future at Leeds will be as a short impact player. We saw it a lot in the Championship run in. He'll be most effective coming off the bench against a tiring opposition.
I have said this since before the start of the season, I get Bielsa giving him the start against Liddypool, first game back in the prem, he earned that right... I love Pablo and I am not disrespecting him by saying he should not see any action until the 2nd half, I want to see him in a Leeds shirt as long as possible, and this is the way to do that...Impact player all the way.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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Smudge3920 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:12 am I have said this since before the start of the season, I get Bielsa giving him the start against Liddypool, first game back in the prem, he earned that right... I love Pablo and I am not disrespecting him by saying he should not see any action until the 2nd half, I want to see him in a Leeds shirt as long as possible, and this is the way to do that...Impact player all the way.
In the Liverpool game, I thought he had a decent first 25 or so. But it was almost like he got the start by default. We know we've been in the market fir a new attacking midfielder but we haven't signed one yet. His other options were Roberts and Rodrigo (who'd only landed a few days prior). Even without a new signing, pretty sure Rodrigo will be first choice in the Pablo role now.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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rab_rant wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:03 am With a name like lumiukko do you have a Finnish connection?

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Yes I do, I lived in Helsinki over 4 years and still have close connections like god-children and best friends there (some Finns, some Brits). I typically visit a couple of times a year (pre-Covid times) and see the place like a second home.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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Andrew said ,,,
But it was almost like he got the start by default
And rightly so mate, as I said he earned that start.
Even without a new signing, pretty sure Rodrigo will be first choice in the Pablo role now.
Concur Andrew.. and not done yet in the market... I read a comment earlier (I apologise I forget who posted it) along the lines of , Bielsa will be coming up with new tactics to counter the established prem teams, I agree with this and so I believe we have not yet seen anything yet... happy days :-D
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

Post by Lumiukko »

Smudge3920 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:12 am I have said this since before the start of the season, I get Bielsa giving him the start against Liddypool, first game back in the prem, he earned that right... I love Pablo and I am not disrespecting him by saying he should not see any action until the 2nd half, I want to see him in a Leeds shirt as long as possible, and this is the way to do that...Impact player all the way.
As both you and Andrew said, I also see him as an impact super-sub, and fully expect him to get a fair few minutes under his belt still. Class is permanent.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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When pace disappears, positional sense becomes more important. I remember Jari Litmanen who played for Ajax and Liverpool, at the end of his career he seemed to have a 5 m circle around about him that no one entered, and from there he sprayed passes in every direction which often resulted in goals.

When the legs go the brain has to take over... and no one can deny that Pablo has an excellent footballing brain.

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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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Re the formation, someone counted that Leeds would play 18 matches where the oppo typically use two advanced forwards, so Bielsa may be planning ahead for that.
Perhaps this season we may have the luxury of getting towards seeing more specialists in those positions rather than the makeshift approach we are used to.

But as for the oppo working out what we are doing... I recall the Barnsley game when even the players seemed baffled there., 😉
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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i actually have to eat my words a bit and say I was a big critic of Harrison in his first season, and still thought he blew hot and cold last season, but he's improved an awful lot and seems to keep doing so and very happy to eat my words and say that he's looked the biz in the prem so far and long may it continue!

i'd say alio left wing - rodrigo for tyler perhaps too.

as someone else said, hope we don't shift the whole team around just for one absence
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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danhirons wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:04 am i actually have to eat my words a bit and say I was a big critic of Harrison in his first season, and still thought he blew hot and cold last season, but he's improved an awful lot and seems to keep doing so and very happy to eat my words and say that he's looked the biz in the prem so far and long may it continue!
Same, I singled him out more than anyone else when we failed to get promoted that season but he's proven me wrong and I'm more than happy to be. The lad is really coming into his own.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

Post by Carrick Dave »

At the end of his first year Harrison spent the close-season with a personal trainer bulking up and working on his upper body strength. I think Poveda needs to do the same - he’s only a kid and the last thing I’d want would be for anything to affect his pace and balance, but he really seems to get eased off the ball too easily by more physical defenders.

He has time though, the talent is definitely there, and better decision making will come naturally in due course under Marcelo’s tutelage.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

Post by Gandalf »

gessa wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:56 pm No, we bought him.
Free transfer.
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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Gandalf wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:40 pm Free transfer.
I was sure it was for an undisclosed fee, thought to be in the region one £1M
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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gessa wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:57 pm I was sure it was for an undisclosed fee, thought to be in the region one £1M
No it was a free. City do have a buyback option, though.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-17629478
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Re: The Harrison Dilemma

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Gandalf wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:38 pm No it was a free. City do have a buyback option, though.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-17629478
That's where I was getting mixed up then, the £1m was add ons, I'd imagine some of that was hit with us getting promoted.
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