Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

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CHAPELALLMAN
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Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/l ... 19313.html

I know that many people on here hate to question Bielsa's judgement, but surely it is possible sometimes for any person - no matter who they may be - to at times not be able to see the wood for the trees ? Complicated tactics have their place, but sometimes football is a simple game. Maybe sometimes there can be ' paralysis through analysis. '

Maybe I am simplifying too much, but hasn't this issue with ' efficiency in the final third ' been with us now for about a season and a half ? How many post match statements has Bielas made during that time in which he has bemoaned his team's ability to be clinical with its finishing and to have a high level of efficiency in the final third ? Yet for for the last year and a half Harrison and Bamford have started virtually every game - is it just me, or is it too simplistic to say that there is a clear connection between the two things ?

People have pointed out on here that our main problem is playing against teams that sit deep - well that is quite a problem, as most teams are going to play that way. If we are struggling to break down teams that park the bus principally due to Harrison's lack of pace, directness and quality of delivery, and because of Bamford's lack of movement and natural goalscoring instinct, then why are we not trying a different approach ?

I think part of the problem is that now and again both players have a good game - mainly against teams that play like we do - so it's easy afterwards to gloss over the problem and just go again. Then we play a team that sits back and the issue flares up again with the usual post match headline ' Bielsa bemoans lack of efficiency. ' Last year our front trio achieved a pretty pathetic haul of goals for a title winning side which creates masses of chances, yet getting promotion made it pretty easy to paper over the cracks - even more so after those games against Liverpool and Fulham, as for a moment we thought that we had turned into a free scoring side due to fact that PL football suits us better.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Smudge3920 »

And yet Brentford had a phenominal scoring front 3 ... but didn't win promotion, let alone become champions and win the leaque by 10 clear points... Guess I would stick with Bielsa
Last edited by Smudge3920 on Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Cjay »

"He used to say to us the first time he took the team, 'my job is to take you up to the last third, your job is to finish it'."

Thierry Henry discussing Pep's philosophy.

Maybe that is where Bielsa and his student differ?

Bielsa really believes that the system is king whereas Pep recognises that that is true but only up to a point?

I think at the end of the day we have issues, we have had issues for years as you say Chapelallman and its generally the same issues.

Those issues are down to the individual rather than the collective, so a players fault rather than the tactical.

You cant fix those issues over night, it costs millions and millions to do that.

You have to do it slowly and hope that in the meantime the law of averages goes in your favour.

Just look at our opponents tomorrow, they have spent not far off a quarter of a billion pounds in a short space of time and even now as the season goes on you would expect issues to arise for them.

We have Raphinha now who clearly is an upgrade on Harrison and Costa.

We have Poveda who looks a prospect and is now finally clearly in MB's plans.

We have Rodrigo who you can tell has a level of class above Roberts just from some of his touches and movement.

It would have been nice to get De Paul for example who would have given us a proper Pablo heir, wasnt to be but hopefully within the next 12 months.

A work in progress.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Gandalf »

Cjay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:48 pm We have Raphinha now who clearly is an upgrade on Harrison and Costa.
You have managed to work that out from 12 minutes on Monday night - amazing.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Smudge3920 »

CJ wrote ...
A work in progress.
Completely agree with this... And as in most sports, defence is the most important role for a team... It truly "does win games"... we are in a good position so far given our financial might is not on a par with the top 6...
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Cjay »

Gandalf wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:52 pm You have managed to work that out from 12 minutes on Monday night - amazing.
No of course not.

But Bielsa has always said he only wants players better than we have.

So on that basis isnt it safe to assume that would be the case.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Irish Ian »

While we have issues I think most of them are resolvable. I think we will be OK.


Wolves was just a throwback to the championship, when things changed for the better it was after we tried to take chances first time. Remember how many Ogs and deflected goals we accrued? Pablo knows this, and he almost produced an equaliser but his deflected shot went over. If you dont shoot it wont go in..

I recall a comment from some ex player about the step up from the Championship to the Prem. He said sometimes you may have more room on the ball, but you have less time to THINK.

Bielsa is drilling the squad so they don't need to think as much, they understand where they need to be on the pitch, they see the ball, they see other players, and their well schooled brain tells them which is the best option to take. It is a beautiful thing to behold.

I do worry that we have a few weapons short in our armoury. Long range shooters ( though Rodrigo and Raphinha have hit a few from range) A threat from corners ( but Koch and Pascal look handy in the air) So maybe we will have a few solution soon.

But the problem with wingers is that they are always inconsistent. Right across the board it seems to be the case. Same with strikers, they go both hot and cold runs.

Going forward I wonder where Bielsa sees Raphinha fitting into the equation. Was it a masterstroke to not purchase Jackie Harradona from Citeh? Will Raph become a favourite? I suppose time will tell.

I do wonder though, if money was no option, who would Bielsa bring to the club as a No9?
Last edited by Irish Ian on Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Smudge3920 »

Cjay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:01 pm No of course not.

But Bielsa has always said he only wants players better than we have.

So on that basis isnt it safe to assume that would be the case.
Personally have never heard or read Bielsa say that... ( not that he hasn't, he may have)... I have heard him say he wants players he can work with, which has a slightly different meaning ...Given his reputation for getting the best out of player's.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Irish Ian »

Smudge3920 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:05 pm Personally have never heard or read Bielsa say that... ( not that he hasn't, he may have)... I have heard him say he wants players he can work with, which has a slightly different meaning ...Given his reputation for getting the best out of player's.
I recall Bielsa saying repeatedly when asked about bringing in new players that he would only do so if he believed they were better than what we had already.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by mothbanquet »

Cjay wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:01 pm No of course not.

But Bielsa has always said he only wants players better than we have.

So on that basis isnt it safe to assume that would be the case.
I think that was an Orta quote, but I can't for the life of me believe that the Holy Trinity and the Chosen Son are at crossed purposes in that sense after two seasons. I think Bielsa would agree with the sentiment as a matter of course.

Either way, on-topic we're upgrading the squad but it can't happen all in window, or in one season for that matter.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Leeds1000 »

I thought upto the last game we had been fairly clinical. When we face teams like Wovles & Sheff U all good teams usually find a way to break them down. We did it against SU although our Keeper made 2 WCS in the game. Wolves were a bit more savvy tactically and with far superior players and kept us at bay. To early to say but i get your point. I think that's what make us so exciting.
Like a box of Chocolates you never no what your gonna get.
One thing we can all be sure of. Bielsa is no George Graham.

It will always be the case with us under Bielsa. Take our chances and were in with a shout. One thing we can't alow is for soft goals conceded. That side of it concerns me more.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Cjay »

mothbanquet wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:13 pm I think that was an Orta quote, but I can't for the life of me believe that the Holy Trinity and the Chosen Son are at crossed purposes in that sense after two seasons. I think Bielsa would agree with the sentiment as a matter of course.

Either way, on-topic we're upgrading the squad but it can't happen all in window, or in one season for that matter.
No i am positive on this mate, Bielsa has said it directly more than once.

Its in conversations where he has also spoken about "adapting". Cant find the quotes but absolutely certain on it.

Agree with the 2nd paragraph.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Smudge3920 »

Irish Ian wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:10 pm I recall Bielsa saying repeatedly when asked about bringing in new players that he would only do so if he believed they were better than what we had already.
As I said... He may have..., still think it was an Orta quote, and Bielsa supported it rather than show disagreement...

I still stand by my original comment though ...
And yet Brentford had a phenominal scoring front 3 ... but didn't win promotion, let alone become champions and win the leaque by 10 clear points... Guess I would stick with Bielsa
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

Not sure it was just the finishing against Wolves. A few times we played some really nice football but the final ball went missing. I didn't see the game live because I was working. But watching the stats, you see 9 shots to 2 in the first half and wonder why we haven't scored. When I finally saw the game, it was a different story. There wasn't really anywhere where I would say "we really should have put that one away." Bamford did badly scuff two chances but neither was a dead cert goal. You wonder though what a world-class talent would have done in the same situations. Jimenez was a good example for Wolves - he kept creating chances out of nothing. We're not missing our chances this season, we're just missing the player that can make something out of nothing.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Mick Jones shoulder »

Wolves a far different proposition sitting in than any championship side we struggled against. After the first 40mins of domination without a goal it was only ending in one outcome.
Poor delivery continues to be the issue, big Dunc or Andy Gray would struggle to get on the end of any of our crosses. :lol:
Really need a midfield orchestrator (de Paul looked the bollocks) not only a passer but to run at opposition centrally, can't just go out wide continually to squander hard earned field position.

I also remember the ,only want better than we have players quote.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Leeds1000 »

A fully fit 90 minutes Hernandez is what we need. Shame we won't probably get it this season. 45mins makes cheers me up a bit tho. 8-)
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Interesting comments from everyone - thanks.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Irish Ian wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:04 pm While we have issues I think most of them are resolvable. I think we will be OK.


Wolves was just a throwback to the championship, when things changed for the better it was after we tried to take chances first time. Remember how many Ogs and deflected goals we accrued? Pablo knows this, and he almost produced an equaliser but his deflected shot went over. If you dont shoot it wont go in..

I recall a comment from some ex player about the step up from the Championship to the Prem. He said sometimes you may have more room on the ball, but you have less time to THINK.

Bielsa is drilling the squad so they don't need to think as much, they understand where they need to be on the pitch, they see the ball, they see other players, and their well schooled brain tells them which is the best option to take. It is a beautiful thing to behold.

I do worry that we have a few weapons short in our armoury. Long range shooters ( though Rodrigo and Raphinha have hit a few from range) A threat from corners ( but Koch and Pascal look handy in the air) So maybe we will have a few solution soon.

But the problem with wingers is that they are always inconsistent. Right across the board it seems to be the case. Same with strikers, they go both hot and cold runs.

Going forward I wonder where Bielsa sees Raphinha fitting into the equation. Was it a masterstroke to not purchase Jackie Harradona from Citeh? Will Raph become a favourite? I suppose time will tell.

I do wonder though, if money was no option, who would Bielsa bring to the club as a No9?
I think that's a good point about wingers - they are often quite inconsistent. Maybe that's partly caused by the pressure of them being a bit peripheral and often having to wait before the ball is played out wide, as opposed to central players who are in the thick of it most of the time. Then when the ball is played out wide there is a lot of expectation on the winger to perform with it and get crosses in. I remember watching Peter Barnes in action in the early 80s at Elland Road, and there was always a huge surge of excitement from the crowd when the ball was played out wide to him. He was a very talented winger though, and could handle the pressure.

I read somewhere that about 75 % of Aguero and Sterling's goals for several seasons were coming from a winger or FB running ( usually to the right side ) byline and then making a low cut back across the box for the forward standing in the 6 yard box to tap in. How many goals do we score like that ?

Sometimes our FBs underlap our wingers and many of our best crosses seem to come from our FBs these days.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by Scoobychief »

Today huge test and a yard stick for the rest of the season, its all about how the players respond now to this defeat, first half against wolves dominated without really threating the goal. second half wolves were far more slick than us and opened us up on a few occasion and could have had more.
Villa tonight are on a high grealish will be a real threat and so too will barkley and this game will be won by the team with the best midfield tonight, we never strenghtened in that area when we should have done so, its all very well running down the wing all day long if you cant find the killer passes, i think eventually raphiha will be a regular as soon as he get up to speed. bamford worries me because he needs a few chances to get a goal, rather have rodrigo as striker and bamford behind him if bielsa has to play both. but tonight will teach us a lot about how we will perform in this league. hoping we can win this but doubting it.
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Re: Bielsa bemoans poor finishing.

Post by mothbanquet »

I actually commented during the Wolves game that we needed to start pushing through the middle more - which actually started happening but not till towards the end of the game. When we did, we forced a couple of opportunities. The wingers are having to stay out wide to compliment the attacking FBs because Bielsa's system revolves around constantly overloading the pitch in which the ball is being played.

Of course, this has downsides - both when our crossing quality is subpar and when we don't mix things up. Too many times our crosses sailed right over everyone's heads to the opposite wing and even if we picked up back up again, their defenders were already set in their positions and ready for another cross.

As we continue to upgrade the squad we'll get in better fullbacks. I love Luke and Dallas as much as everyone but these areas will probably be upgraded before the no9 position. I see more moves that better service and shooting ability from FBs will improve than ones a better striker will.
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