Beating a high press.

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CHAPELALLMAN
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Beating a high press.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

These two attached pics highlight the problems that the defence and keeper face when dealing with a high press ( sorry, they are the wrong way round the first pic is at the bottom ! ) Saka has cleverly positioned himself between Meslier and Cooper so that he is blocking the route to Cooper, and is running rapidly towards Meslier so as to pressure him into clearing the ball quickly and to limit his options.

Meslier is left footed, and looks as though he has positioned himself so as to go long to Alioski on the left flank - as Saka closes in on him his body position is such that he is not positioned to switch to the other wing quickly with a player closing in on him.

Ayling has some space, though there is an opposition player in quite close proximity. Alioski and Shackleton are so high up the field that they are completely off the screen in the first picture. Strujik is advancing rapidly towards Meslier in order to receive the ball, but whilst doing so is being marked closely by their 10.

Meslier takes a run up as though he is about to go long towards Alioski, however he suddenly realises that he has left it too late and Saka is about to nick the ball from him. Cooper signals to pass it to Strujik, but he makes no attempt to create space by coming inside so that he is no longer shielded by Saka. In the end it is all too late, and Meslier has to abort the pass, check and try to reposition his body so as to switch flanks probably with the idea of going long to Shackleton.

In the second picture the two wing-backs come into view, and Meslier has been dispossessed. Ayling by this time is close to Meslier with two opposition players very near to him

Clearly the idea was to go long to Alioski on the left wing, however to get distance and accuracy this takes a moment for a keeper to look up, assess the pass and then take a run up to the kick. This delay makes the keeper vulnerable to an opposition player closing him down fast.

To my mind Cooper could have really helped the situation through making a run so as to receive inside rather than allowing himself to be blocked by Saka. Instead he just pointed towards Strujik ( you can't see this in the pictures ) and stood stock still. So to help beat a press like Arsenal deployed players are going to have to do more movement to help Meslier out. Wolves used a high press in the last game, and having seen what Arsenal did they may try to play the same way.
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by 1964white »

The point I've made on at least three threads our defenders didn't help our young keeper!
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Re: Beating a high press.

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1964white wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:36 pm The point I've made on at least three threads our defenders didn't help our young keeper!
A point well made Leon...Coops could have easily moved into the gap to accept a pass from Mes...It is not all down to the keeper...
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Re: Beating a high press.

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1964white wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:36 pm The point I've made on at least three threads our defenders didn't help our young keeper!
Dead right 64.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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That is why our Deep lying playmaker needs to be someone with a higher skill set than Struijk.

Or why if we dont have KP available we should use two Dfms instead.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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Irish Ian wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:32 pm That is why our Deep lying playmaker needs to be someone with a higher skill set than Struijk.

Or why if we dont have KP available we should use two Dfms instead.
👍 plus can't see trigonometry being a strong point for the lads😁 maybe Bamford🤔
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Re: Beating a high press.

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Irish Ian wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:32 pm That is why our Deep lying playmaker needs to be someone with a higher skill set than Struijk.

Or why if we dont have KP available we should use two Dfms instead.
I think that's right.
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Another thing is that if the defence and the keeper are being pressed, maybe the FBs could could realise that Meslier is going to find it harder to go long with a high degree of accuracy. They are high up the pitch in the second picture.
If on the other hand Meslier tries to just hoof it, then MB is not going to be too pleased. So maybe at times they can come in a bit deeper and if need be come inside a bit more to help him out - a long pass to a wing-back hugging the touchline is far more likely to go astray, and puts the keeper under more pressure with his distribution.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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Honestly IMO this is getting way to complicated...If there is a pass to be made...make it...if not hoof it and its up to the outfielders to sort out... trying to dance with the ball in the box and having a GK come up with a solution is a very dangerous game to be playing as we know all too well
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by Cjay »

Our players are robots programmed to the extreme to do exactly what the boss wants.

Move where they are told and pass where they are told and when they are told.

It has got us where we are but better coaches will work it out ( lord knows MB has done enough lectures about it available online).

Better players that are a bit faster and cleverer will work it out.

The players on the pitch have to take responsibility.

The outfield playerslet Mes down in that situation.

Would KP, Koch and Llorente?

Maybe the simple answer is as the players improve that sort of thing will happen less.

The likes of Cooper, Dallas, Ali, Ayling have got where they are by doing exactly what Bielsa tells them.

You know who used to come deep if we were struggling to get out? Hernandez

Better players, more technical players , those able to think outside the pre programmed movements are the long term answer imo.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:08 pm These two attached pics highlight the problems that the defence and keeper face when dealing with a high press ( sorry, they are the wrong way round the first pic is at the bottom ! ) Saka has cleverly positioned himself between Meslier and Cooper so that he is blocking the route to Cooper, and is running rapidly towards Meslier so as to pressure him into clearing the ball quickly and to limit his options.

Meslier is left footed, and looks as though he has positioned himself so as to go long to Alioski on the left flank - as Saka closes in on him his body position is such that he is not positioned to switch to the other wing quickly with a player closing in on him.

Ayling has some space, though there is an opposition player in quite close proximity. Alioski and Shackleton are so high up the field that they are completely off the screen in the first picture. Strujik is advancing rapidly towards Meslier in order to receive the ball, but whilst doing so is being marked closely by their 10.

Meslier takes a run up as though he is about to go long towards Alioski, however he suddenly realises that he has left it too late and Saka is about to nick the ball from him. Cooper signals to pass it to Strujik, but he makes no attempt to create space by coming inside so that he is no longer blocked by Saka. In the end it is all too late, and Meslier has to abort the pass, check and try to reposition his body so as to switch flanks probably with the idea of going long to Shackleton.

In the second picture the two wing-backs come into view, and Meslier has been dispossessed. Ayling by this time is close to Meslier with two opposition players very near to him

Clearly the idea was to go long to Alioski on the left wing, however to get distance and accuracy this takes a moment for a keeper to look up, assess the pass and then take a run up to the kick. This delay makes the keeper vulnerable to an opposition player running straight at him.

To my mind Cooper could have really helped the situation through making a run so as to receive inside rather than allowing himself to be blocked by Saka. Instead he just pointed towards Strujik ( you can't see this in the pictures ) and stood stock still. So to help beat a press like Arsenal deployed players are going to have to do more movement to help Meslier out. Wolves used a high press in the last game, and having seen what Arsenal did they may try to play the same way.
Well highlighted CHAPELALLMAN. I feel with Meslier he is all too often left exposed and it proves fatal. These are frustrating and basic errors that hopefully can be resolved. I still think he also needs to work on some aspects of his game, particularly covering his near post.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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Irish Ian wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:32 pm That is why our Deep lying playmaker needs to be someone with a higher skill set than Struijk.

Or why if we dont have KP available we should use two Dfms instead.
Indeed Ian

Another tactic I'd go with in certain matches

Bringing in another quality defensive midfielder would be great as both would get plenty of games.
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by AJA »

I think MB knows what he doing. We are doing very well with the player we have. We play entertaining football and are a delight to watch. Yes we make mistakes like IM made in the last game but that normal.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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Smudge3920 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:37 pm Honestly IMO this is getting way to complicated...If there is a pass to be made...make it...if not hoof it and its up to the outfielders to sort out... trying to dance with the ball in the box and having a GK come up with a solution is a very dangerous game to be playing as we know all too well
Hockaday returns. :lol:
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by Byebyegeegee »

Goalkeeping these days is far more technical than it ever used to be (and I’m going back a long time), with lighter balls that swerve all over the place, with the back pass rule and now goalkeepers becoming almost an outfield player, a sweeper if you like, having to receive the ball in tight situations and then being encouraged to pass the ball not just hoof it down field.

Even as young and inexperienced as he is I don’t think Meslier is particularly poor in this aspect of the game. He has been left exposed in this manner in other games but has managed (sometimes only just) to dribble his way out of trouble, I can remember thinking “phew (not phew actually) that was close” on quite a few occasions this season. I think the law of averages would suggest that he was going to get caught out eventually, especially with the likes of the clever players Arsenal have.

The flip side I suppose in these situations is that the opposition will have at least 3 of their players occupied in closing Meslier down and so consequently there will be more space elsewhere for our players to exploit on a counter attack.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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Smudge3920 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:37 pm Honestly IMO this is getting way to complicated...If there is a pass to be made...make it...if not hoof it and its up to the outfielders to sort out... trying to dance with the ball in the box and having a GK come up with a solution is a very dangerous game to be playing as we know all too well
MB doesn't like hoofing - the keeper is likely to get a dressing down for that. It's just not the way that MB wants to play the game. I'm sure that Meslier wants to hoof it at times. Also, the onus is on building up down the flanks, so the last thing that MB will want is a ball hoofed down the middle, with the blind hope that a midfielder or forward will be able to get on the end of it. Distribution from the back is a large part of how Bielsa sees football being played.

You can be sure that the keeper will have exact orders from MB as to how he wants the ball to be played out - and it's as a sweeper keeper not as a traditional hoofer.
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Beating a high press.

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Cjay wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:49 am Our players are robots programmed to the extreme to do exactly what the boss wants.

Move where they are told and pass where they are told and when they are told.

It has got us where we are but better coaches will work it out ( lord knows MB has done enough lectures about it available online).

Better players that are a bit faster and cleverer will work it out.

The players on the pitch have to take responsibility.

The outfield playerslet Mes down in that situation.

Would KP, Koch and Llorente?

Maybe the simple answer is as the players improve that sort of thing will happen less.

The likes of Cooper, Dallas, Ali, Ayling have got where they are by doing exactly what Bielsa tells them.

You know who used to come deep if we were struggling to get out? Hernandez

Better players, more technical players , those able to think outside the pre programmed movements are the long term answer imo.
Very true Cjay. You would hope that better players will be able to think things out a bit more for themselves. Lesser players can be automated to follow instructions - but there are limits to what they can do.
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

AJA wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:01 am I think MB knows what he doing. We are doing very well with the player we have. We play entertaining football and are a delight to watch. Yes we make mistakes like IM made in the last game but that normal.
In which case there's no point in us fans ever analysing what happens on the pitch or discussing tactics. Isn't that a bit boring ? I never subscribe to the ' MB knows exactly what he is doing ' idea as it would stop me from thinking about things too much - in which case I would lose a lot of interest. I prefer to make my brain work a bit and try to analyse what goes right and what goes wrong. Surely that's MB's approach as well - he analyses everything to the nth degree.

That's just my view- if others want to just say ' Bielsa knows best at all times ' then that's fine as well - we are all different.

Anyway, MB can't take control over absolutely everything players do on the pitch - he can only automate certain players so far. In this example Cooper and possibly the FBs needed to just think about their positioning more so as to avoid what happened. Apart from Strujik they were all stood stock still.
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Overman wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:57 am Well highlighted CHAPELALLMAN. I feel with Meslier he is all too often left exposed and it proves fatal. These are frustrating and basic errors that hopefully can be resolved. I still think he also needs to work on some aspects of his game, particularly covering his near post.
Thanks Overman.

I tend to agree - being beaten at the near post is something he needs to sort out. Outfield players could do their bit in helping him with his distrbution through their positioning.
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Re: Beating a high press.

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Cjay wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:49 am Our players are robots programmed to the extreme to do exactly what the boss wants.

Move where they are told and pass where they are told and when they are told.

It has got us where we are but better coaches will work it out ( lord knows MB has done enough lectures about it available online).

Better players that are a bit faster and cleverer will work it out.

The players on the pitch have to take responsibility.

The outfield playerslet Mes down in that situation.

Would KP, Koch and Llorente?

Maybe the simple answer is as the players improve that sort of thing will happen less.

The likes of Cooper, Dallas, Ali, Ayling have got where they are by doing exactly what Bielsa tells them.

You know who used to come deep if we were struggling to get out? Hernandez

Better players, more technical players , those able to think outside the pre programmed movements are the long term answer imo.
That's a very good point !
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