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Covid passports

Yes
20
45%
No
21
48%
Don't know
3
7%
 
Total votes: 44

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Sara
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Re: Covid passports

Post by Sara »

Leeds1000 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:01 pm This paragraph from the top one seems to sum up the confusion. .

Face masks are among the most simple, easy-to-use, and effective measures against the airborne transmission of infectious respiratory diseases, but their usefulness against COVID-19 is still under debate. Some earlier investigations found that masks were apparently not effective under certain conditions. Others found high efficacies, but a conclusive explanation for the apparent contradictions and inconsistencies had not been given.
As it stated in the piece I linked, you can't apply 'laboratory conditions' to what the general public actually do in practice: their choice of material, quality of fit, habits around handling, cleanliness and disposal. That's before you take into account negative effects on transmission like micronisation, other health risks to wearers with breathing difficulties, and harmful ingredients like formaldehyde and fluorocarbons, which aren't intended for prolonged exposure. It's a minefield, and difficult not to conclude that the key reasons for mandates are psychological and political.
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Re: Covid passports

Post by Orange Box »

SaraM wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:09 pm As it stated in the piece I linked, you can't apply 'laboratory conditions' to what the general public actually do in practice: their choice of material, quality of fit, habits around handling, cleanliness and disposal. That's before you take into account negative effects on transmission like micronisation, other health risks to wearers with breathing difficulties, and harmful ingredients like formaldehyde and fluorocarbons, which aren't intended for prolonged exposure. It's a minefield, and difficult not to conclude that the key reasons for mandates are psychological and political.


I find it really difficult to disagree with this assumption, and as I am unable to put it as eloquently as you I’ll say it simply, I think mask wearing is little more than a flag waving, ‘you’ll all be safe’ exercise. A bit like wearing a seat belt on an aeroplane.
WARNING: During game time, any post I make is not to be taken seriously, neither is it meant as offence. I'm a hot-blooded creature prone to moments of exasperation and expletive.
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Smudge3920
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Re: Covid passports

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Orange Box wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:57 pm [/b][/i][/b]

I find it really difficult to disagree with this assumption, and as I am unable to put it as eloquently as you I’ll say it simply, I think mask wearing is little more than a flag waving, ‘you’ll all be safe’ exercise. A bit like wearing a seat belt on an aeroplane.
Thanks for jumping in OB, although I am surprised at your opinion, given your background it does hold more weight than most..That said , I know many nursing/Medical professionals and to a person they all support mask wearing.
It does bring into question though, if thats the case why do surgeons and theatre staff wear masks all the time? I genuinely am interested in all this, as one who hates wearing masks if I have gone to all this trouble for propoganda then I will be a tad miffed...other questions that I have is;

Why have all the centers of mass outbreaks been in high density populated areas?

Given all the practices being implemented due to COVID, why is it there has been a massive decrease in regular annual flu infections/deaths this past flu season?

There are others, but we as a forum can only share opinion really... just one point though, I was not going to mention... one of my neighbours who was vehemntly against any restrictions/mask wearing/closures etc... contacted COVID on April 12th (well thats when he was admitted to ICU), he passed away May 3rd, whilst on a ventilator. (48 years old)

I am sure there are many such examples, and as many reasons not to be panicked into following the rules, as we have all said it is up to the individual,... but the question remains how many people have passed away due to being influenced by those who disagree and refuse to follow any rules imposed?
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Re: Covid passports

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Size matters, surgeon masks are to protect the patient from bacterial contamination and possible septicaemia. Particl size of bacteria are measured in micrometers whereas viruses are as small as nanometers.Image

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Re: Covid passports

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Mesh size of cloth masks are often greater than 500 micrometers where as the size of covid virus is 0.12 micrometers. Plenty of openings for particles to get in or out. But if you feel safer wearing a mask please do.

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Re: Covid passports

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rab_rant wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 4:18 am Mesh size of cloth masks are often greater than 500 micrometers where as the size of covid virus is 0.12 micrometers. Plenty of openings for particles to get in or out. But if you feel safer wearing a mask please do.

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Can't argue Rab big box stores and dodgy company's has resulted in a myriad of useless masks...the cloth mask being about the biggest piece of crap there is, mostly made for fashion conscious people... the mask my family have been using after much research last year...come from a reputable PPE (registered) company, the standards checked out by CDC and government of Canada... the company I purchase the masks from the customer service is second to none, and always get back to you within 24 hours, with any answers to queries. They even sent information detailing how the masks work in filtering out (particularly) viruses... And in Big urban centers, stores or any place people gather...we do feel safer and the long days I spent on research of masks, I do not regret one bit.... more expensive?...yes absoluetly and worth every penny.
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Re: Covid passports

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Thanks Smudge, I’ll have a crack at your questions, though I advise that nobody alters their mask wearing on the basis of my observations.
Smudge3920 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 9:20 pm Thanks for jumping in OB, although I am surprised at your opinion, given your background it does hold more weight than most..That said , I know many nursing/Medical professionals and to a person they all support mask wearing.
It does bring into question though, if thats the case why do surgeons and theatre staff wear masks all the time?

Rab has supplied a well researched answer, thanks Rab.



Why have all the centers of mass outbreaks been in high density populated areas?

The answer is in the question- highly populated. My answer isn’t politically correct, will likely offend many, and wouldn’t be said on Question Time: it’s this, densely populated areas are home in general to lower income, higher volume families. This means multiple occupancy per home, so if one person brings home the virus (and we know the virus is virulent indoors) the outcome is obvious. Now factor in the time delay for symptoms (if symptomatic), affected family members socialise and guess what, you have a perfect storm. When South East Asian incidence of death was reported as being at a higher than average rate, some reporting verged on the insane, that the virus was racist, or that treatment for ethnic groups was reduced. The one figure I didn’t see reported was the incidence of virus affecting this ethnic group versus the population as a whole. That might have explained things a little clearer.

I now live in a tiny village 15 miles from the nearest ‘town’, when a single case was suspected in that town, the entire area went into meltdown, sorry, lockdown for 2 weeks. Result? No further transmission.

Given all the practices being implemented due to COVID, why is it there has been a massive decrease in regular annual flu infections/deaths this past flu season?

Genuine question - Who contracts influenza? (and I don’t mean the 7 day man cold, I mean genuine influenza which debilities for weeks and months). The influenza virus doesn’t kill, the debilitation resulting causes symptoms that kill, pneumonia, blood clots, etc. And the demographic susceptible to these symptoms are probably already shielding by isolation rather than simple barrier methods, hence the reduction in transmission. An early example which unfortunately supports my view can be found in the volume of deaths of elderly and infirm in care homes when residents known to have C19 where sent back to their home. Devastation of the very demographic susceptible to complications occurred.
I’m not a fan of masks, but I do support social distancing. As I reported in another thread, last week I went back to Leeds for a brew or two. Whilst moving around the pubs I had to wear a mask (I favour the very inefficient cloth fashion victim neckerchief type), but as soon as I sat down I could remove it. So apparently the virus doesn’t transmit to seated people???

And another reason why masks are poor - they steam my bloody specs up!

Please excuse my flippancy, I’ve lost 2 very good mates from work to C19, and I know it’s serious and that we must take a sensible approach to multi dimensional precautions, but anyone who thinks bog standard mask wearing is the sole answer is as delusional as I am flippant.
WARNING: During game time, any post I make is not to be taken seriously, neither is it meant as offence. I'm a hot-blooded creature prone to moments of exasperation and expletive.
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Re: Covid passports

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Is there such a thing as vaccine hesitancy? Where only one side of the narrative is promoted and adverse comments are shadow blocked. Does Facebook have an algorithm to suppress comments that do not conform to the mainstream narrative?

https://youtu.be/Requt9zXN04

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Leeds1000
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Re: Covid passports

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rab_rant wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 8:35 am Is there such a thing as vaccine hesitancy? Where only one side of the narrative is promoted and adverse comments are shadow blocked. Does Facebook have an algorithm to suppress comments that do not conform to the mainstream narrative?

https://youtu.be/Requt9zXN04

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I would say so, i don't use FB but i have experienced it on the YT comments section. I have had a few comments removed due to algorithms on specific words. I now tend to misspell certain words if i think they will be on the hit list.

I know some people couldn't stand Trump for good reason, but for the Former president of the USA to be banned from every major SM platform imo should be a concern for us all. What's happened to his free speech? It doesn't particularly look good that we now know that SM platforms deliberately covered up the stuff about Biden and his son's dealings just before the election.
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Re: Covid passports

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Orange Box wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 7:47 am Thanks Smudge, I’ll have a crack at your questions, though I advise that nobody alters their mask wearing on the basis of my observations.



I’m not a fan of masks, but I do support social distancing. As I reported in another thread, last week I went back to Leeds for a brew or two. Whilst moving around the pubs I had to wear a mask (I favour the very inefficient cloth fashion victim neckerchief type), but as soon as I sat down I could remove it. So apparently the virus doesn’t transmit to seated people???

And another reason why masks are poor - they steam my bloody specs up!

Please excuse my flippancy, I’ve lost 2 very good mates from work to C19, and I know it’s serious and that we must take a sensible approach to multi dimensional precautions, but anyone who thinks bog standard mask wearing is the sole answer is as delusional as I am flippant.
Thanks OB, appreciate your views...flippancy I can deal with, a sense of humour in all things, 20 + years in the military trust me my black humour comes out all the time ...just to be clear, I believe more in social distancing and I know masks are not the sole answer... stay safe mate.
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Re: Covid passports

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Interested to know if people who have died who were friends or family where in good health or in the categories that were susceptible obese, asthma etc.

Do we have any actual experts in virology or is it just conjecture. My brother is a microbiologist and some of his thoughts have been interesting ,wouldn't say I'd necessarily agree on everything to be fair.
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Re: Covid passports

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Mick Jones shoulder wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:13 pm Interested to know if people who have died who were friends or family where in good health or in the categories that were susceptible obese, asthma etc.

Do we have any actual experts in virology or is it just conjecture. My brother is a microbiologist and some of his thoughts have been interesting ,wouldn't say I'd necessarily agree on everything to be fair.
Sadly have known 3 to be taken by the virus... one distant family member in good health before contact (59yrs old), my neighbour a couple of houses down, in good health again, still played rec hockey (48yrs old) and an aquaintance who had suffered a heart attack, 18 months ago, was obese (53 years old)
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Re: Covid passports

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One thing I have noticed in supermarkets are the number of people who sneeze or cough straight into their masks without even putting a hand up to their face. My understanding of what you should do is to cough/sneeze into the crook of your arm. Lots of people cough or sneeze just as they probably always did before the epidemic, which was unhygienic anyway....

I saw one man in Leeds looking at items on an Aldi shelf when he suddenly had a compulsion to sneeze. He pulled down his mask, sneezed into both hands, pullled his mask back up and then carried on looking at items on the shelf whilst handling some of them to help him find what he was after. There's no publicity about this, but it's so important to educate people.
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Re: Covid passports

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Mick Jones shoulder wrote:Interested to know if people who have died who were friends or family where in good health or in the categories that were susceptible obese, asthma etc.

Do we have any actual experts in virology or is it just conjecture. My brother is a microbiologist and some of his thoughts have been interesting ,wouldn't say I'd necessarily agree on everything to be fair.
I have a degree in microbiology and my thesis was symbiotic nitrogen fixation with a rhizobium trifoli and a red clover. I isolated bacteria from Clover root nodules, and found superior strains which could be used for inoculating Clover seeds.

I worked for 10 years at the European bionformatics Institute. I was there at the time the Sanger center sequenced the human genome, and I was responsible for the production of DVDs with the whole of the EMBL nucleotide database on them.

I taught bionformatics at the ICGEB in Trieste Italy and was editor of the EMBnet online journal on bioinformatics.

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Re: Covid passports

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rab_rant wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:00 pm I have a degree in microbiology and my thesis was symbiotic nitrogen fixation with a rhizobium trifoli and a red clover. I isolated bacteria from Clover root nodules, and found superior strains which could be used for inoculating Clover seeds.

I worked for 10 years at the European bionformatics Institute. I was there at the time the Sanger center sequenced the human genome, and I was responsible for the production of DVDs with the whole of the EMBL nucleotide database on them.

I taught bionformatics at the ICGEB in Trieste Italy and was editor of the EMBnet online journal on bioinformatics.

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Re: Covid passports

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BobHirst wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:34 pm I invented the internet!
Only because you stole the plans off me :P :P

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Re: Covid passports

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Smudge3920 wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:40 pm Thanks OB, appreciate your views...flippancy I can deal with, a sense of humour in all things, 20 + years in the military trust me my black humour comes out all the time ...just to be clear, I believe more in social distancing and I know masks are not the sole answer... stay safe mate.
Black humour... gets you through some dark times and is often misunderstood , good on you Smudge
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Re: Covid passports

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CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:41 pm One thing I have noticed in supermarkets are the number of people who sneeze or cough straight into their masks without even putting a hand up to their face. My understanding of what you should do is to cough/sneeze into the crook of your arm. Lots of people cough or sneeze just as they probably always did before the epidemic, which was unhygienic anyway....

I saw one man in Leeds looking at items on an Aldi shelf when he suddenly had a compulsion to sneeze. He pulled down his mask, sneezed into both hands, pullled his mask back up and then carried on looking at items on the shelf whilst handling some of them to help him find what he was after. There's no publicity about this, but it's so important to educate people.
No manner of publicity will educate some people mate. Best practice is to look after yourself . Keep safe
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Re: Covid passports

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hector wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:46 pm Only because you stole the plans off me :P :P

:)
pfff a Scaly ... you lot think tactics are those little white mints... :P

:) :)
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Re: Covid passports

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Orange Box wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 7:06 pm No manner of publicity will educate some people mate. Best practice is to look after yourself . Keep safe
Thanks Orange - you too.
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