Covid

[1964white]

Gibraltar's government are advising & implementing safety measures, as opposed to the fools who run our country.

[Leeds1000]

But then some of the same people will:

Drink themselves silly.
Smoke like a trooper.
Drugs.
Have a bad diet.
Promiscuous lifestyle.

All above a lot worse than scientific vaccinations.

If it wasn't for the vaccinations, we'd be looking at a death rate in the UK of a million by now, maybe more.

That's why i advocate choice. When i see people walking around with oxygen tanks keeping them alive, i think to myself they have made a bad lifestyle choice but i wouldn't want to run of with the oxygen to see if they could catch me.

Thankfully i believe we have reached the herd immunity threshold in this country so there will be no need for the draconian measures. Natural immunity must be really high by now. Just taking work as a example every member of staff has been off sick with Covid but thankfully none of them have died as yet.

[Leeds1000]

Gibraltar's government are advising & implementing safety measures, as opposed to the fools who run our country.

They have 100% vaccination rates. How safe is safe?

[Sara]

Mandatory rules truly don't bother me one bit, doing the right thing is more important imo!

To me, it's like:

Having to wear a seat belt in your car.
Not using mobiles whilst driving.
Drink-driving.
Not speeding in built-up areas.
Having childhood vaccinations.
Security checks at airports.
Animal inoculations & having control of your pets
Showing your season-ticket/match ticket at away games.

So many other things we are compelled to do in our lives, really doesn't bother me!

If something is the 'right thing' to do, then a convincing case can be made for it. It's always important to apply your own conscience, and to object on that basis if you think something is wrong. We would never have progressed at all as a society if people weren't prepared do this.

Most of the examples you cite are of behaviour towards others. Social behaviour is negotiated, and mostly works because the vast majority of people accept the principles on which it is based. Regimes which rely on compulsion to enforce rules people don't agree with are not civilised places to live. They become dictatorships, where the primary focus is on maintaining power over the population.

In the case of vaccination, the person and the body are sacrosanct. There is no justification for compelling a person to a permanent alteration of their body against their will. We have to uphold this principle, otherwise any form of abuse can be justified. Compelling people to receive vaccinations, however socially beneficial that might be, is morally wrong. If you can't persuade people of the social benefits, then either the failure is yours, or there are sufficient counter arguments for the case not to be made.

[1964white]

If something is the 'right thing' to do, then a convincing case can be made for it. It's always important to apply your own conscience, and to object on that basis if you think something is wrong. We would never have progressed at all as a society if people weren't prepared do this.

Most of the examples you cite are of behaviour towards others. Social behaviour is negotiated, and mostly works because the vast majority of people accept the principles on which it is based. Regimes which rely on compulsion to enforce rules people don't agree with are not civilised places to live. They become dictatorships, where the primary focus is on maintaining power over the population.

In the case of vaccination, the person and the body are sacrosanct. There is no justification for compelling a person to a permanent alteration of their body against their will. We have to uphold this principle, otherwise any form of abuse can be justified. Compelling people to receive vaccinations, however socially beneficial that might be, is morally wrong. If you can't persuade people of the social benefits, then either the failure is yours, or there are sufficient counter arguments for the case not to be made.

So what if you end up in hospital with any condition not necessarily Covid & you required certain drugs you require in a life or death situation, but you didn't approve, would you reject the drug/anaesthetic, etc?

[1964white]

They have 100% vaccination rates. How safe is safe?

Probably spread by foreigners visiting Gibraltar, a similar problem we have here in the UK.

[Sara]

So what if you end up in hospital with any condition not necessarily Covid & you required certain drugs you require in a life or death situation, but you didn't approve, would you reject the drug/anaesthetic, etc?

There is the option to decline treatment, and many approaching the end of life choose to do so.

In any case, this is a completely different situation from forcing a vaccine onto a healthy person, and doesn't address my point about the morality of such actions.

[Sara]

Probably spread by foreigners visiting Gibraltar, a similar problem we have here in the UK.

Bloody foreigners, travelling all over the place; like these bloody tourists travelling the length of the country from Cornwall to Northumberland!

[1964white]

Bloody foreigners, travelling all over the place; like these bloody tourists travelling the length of the country from Cornwall to Northumberland!

[rab_rant]

Biden's vaccine mandate suspended

[john1931]

Who on here hasn't been vaccinated?

[1964white]

Who on here hasn't been vaccinated?

Wish I could have got an appointment before going to the match tomorrow.

So badly organised this time, I'm travelling to a different town having my booster jab on the 24th November

[1964white]

I see the militant idiot brigade are out on the streets of Rotterdam

Screenshot 2021-11-21 06.08.13.png (329.58 KiB) Viewed 577 times

Fresh unrest has erupted in the Netherlands against new lockdown rules amid rising Covid-19 cases in Europe.

People hurled fireworks at police and set fire to bicycles in The Hague, one night after protests in Rotterdam turned violent and police opened fire.

Thousands of demonstrators also took to the streets in Austria, Croatia and Italy as anger mounted over new curbs.

[rab_rant]

Neal Oliver on the Austrian lockdown

[rab_rant]

The is a battle for the hearts and minds of the people. I have been looking at the cartoons used for propaganda and i would say that there is a preponderance of cartoons that vilify the unvaccinated, that shame them, or classify as uneducated and a risk to society.

The progression towards herd immunity is depicted as the whole of society dragging a obese man sitting on a ball and chain... or again a fat man sitting on a fireman's hose and stopping the water needed to put out the fires of the pandemic. The unvaccinated are being stereotyped as being unthinking and a danger to society and in some ways despised and made second class citizens.

All sorts of inducements are being given to people to take the vaccine. One has to wonder why there is so much a resistance and hesitancy... why there are marches and protests in all the major cities of Europe, and why in spite of all the inducements and propaganda people still elect to be unvaccinated. We are in danger of creating a medical apartheid... with the unvaccinated used as scape goats for the continuing pandemic, whereas it is now becoming clear that you can catch covid in places like Gibraltar where the population has been 100% vaccinated.

It looks like we will just have to live with covid in the future both the vaccinated and unvaccinated, and hopefully there will be more success for antiviral pills than for vaccines... otherwise it will just be a continual use of masks and jabs.

IMG_20211121_090553.jpg (97.77 KiB) Viewed 553 times

[The Subhuman]

Round of applause for Neil Oliver .... Brilliant piece.

[Leeds1000]

Neal Oliver on the Austrian lockdown

Neil Oliver keeps me partially sane. Its great to see someone have a opinion that rings true. GB news we love you.

[Sara]

Round of applause for Neil Oliver .... Brilliant piece.

Spot on.

[rab_rant]

Perhaps i agree with Bob Hirst that everyone is set in their ways, and we have preconceived ideas of how an argument will go, so there is the danger we will not listen to an argument if we know the particular stance of that individual.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words and I have been interested in the use of visuals for and against vaccinations. I must say that i have found more for vaccinations than against.

A good visual is concise and can summarise all the salient points succinctly. You can easily dismiss an article if it is too long winded or you don't like the person who has witten it, or the source comes from a media outlet having different political views from your own. There are so many ways to justify rejection of certain views.

But there are some things that you just can't unsee

[Mountain]

IMG_20211121_094451.jpg
i would say that there is a preponderance of cartoons that vilify the unvaccinated, that shame them, or classify as uneducated and a risk to society.

But then they are accurate. Because, of course, when it comes to vaccines, the vast majority are uneducated, we have no idea one way or another. And that includes Neil Oliver, who as I understand is an expert on history (and coasts!), I'm not aware of one qualification he has in the topics he now analyses. It's the classic problem these days, social media and the availability of information suddenly elevates everyone to being an expert. The reality is his opinion is of little more interest than a drunk droning on on a barstool, he just happens to be more articulate and has a platform.