The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 10th May) Leeds outclass Spurs

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Monday 10th May, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Leeds outclass Spurs

Leeds turned on the style against an in form Spurs team, and gave them a master class on team work. Many (including myself) were left bemused an hour before kick off when the team sheet was disclosed, noting that Phillips, Rodrigo and Raphinha would all start on the bench. Our concerns would soon to laid to rest when Dallas (waiting on the back post) smashed the ball into the roof of the net, with less than 15 minutes on the clock.

Harrison's inviting cross from the left hand side byline into a crowded penalty area found Reguilon. With Bamford snapping at his heels, the Former Real Madrid defender stuck out his leg out to try and block the ball, but instead sent it goalward. Lloris could only parry the the ball into Dallas' path!

This was no more than Leeds deserved. Minutes before, Bamford was denied by a sprawling Lloris after good work by Harrison. Ten minutes later Spurs were level, albeit against the run of play. Delli Ali's inch perfect pass to Son carved the Leeds defence open. The South Korean fired the ball past the helpless Meslier bagging himself his 17th goal of the season.

The Whites deservedly regain the lead just before half time. Harrison fed Alioski down the left. The North Macedonian rolled the ball back to Bamford who made no mistake for six yards.

The Whites continued to dominate during the second half, and although Spurs had their moments, Leeds deservedly extended their lead with five minutes left. Raphinha broke the offside trap, and with acres of space broke into the Spurs penalty area. Unselfishly, he passed the pall back to Rodrigo who slotted the ball into the left hand corner.





Social media bullying

Should more be done to protect people from cyber bullying on social media? Not a week goes by when dozens of celebrities aren't publicly mocked for their weight, appearance, comments or ethnicity. If you are a celebrity, should you just take it on the chin, or should the Mark Zuckerberg's of this World do more to protect them. Surely, its more import to protect the children that are being bullied. We know how cruel some kids can be!

Last year Carole Flack took her own life after being attacked by cyber bullies, and earlier this year Karen Carney almost went the same way. Her foolish, and unprepared comments about Leeds following their 5-0 route of West Brom, caused thousands of fans to retaliate on social media, leading to Carney breaking down. She told BT Sport...

I came off air and got in the car and remember saying to the guy who drives us home ‘it’s kicking off’ and I felt physically sick. I was sat the whole night, until three or four in the morning, in this daze. It was horrible. I got a lot of stick for coming off of it (Twitter). Then you’ve got people around you saying stand up to it, banter back and have a bit of fun with it. The bottom line was to look after my mental health first. That was my priority.

It was relentless. I can’t even describe it. People that know me know this is the job we do and choose to do it, but I’m low key, a simple girl who loves football. I don’t want to be bombarded on social media platforms. It wasn’t for one hour, it was for three or four days and now it still comes up, people still send me abuse. Recently I’ve been on a lot of government calls with the social media platforms – but they don’t understand. The people in charge of social media say ‘we’re doing this, doing that’ but they don’t understand, I’m just a number.

The only way I could make them understand was to say ‘do you want another Caroline Flack on your hands?’ Because that night that’s how I felt, and in that moment I could understand why she did what she did, because I could have gone to that place. It’s definitely changed me, the impact it’s had on me. I’ve seen it with other pundits, I’m not just speaking about myself.

About four years ago I got online abuse when I was playing, death and rape threats, leukaemia and things like that. When it happened at Christmas it was another trigger and I don’t think my mental health has been the same since. My behaviour has changed. I’ve been highly stressed and it wasn’t clear until (Chelsea manager) Emma Hayes rang and said ‘you’ve changed’.

If you are a Sports journalist, do you deserve to be targeted? Should someone this unstable be put in the firing line? Look at the Sports journalists on TalkSport. They get thousands of derogatory responses on social media every day! Why don't they complain? Should the fact that she is a female Sports journo mean that we should treat her differently?

[Irish Ian]

Morning Folks.

As my old Dad never said. And rightly so.
A win on the weekend puts a shine on a Monday.
Loving that our win has caused such soul searching at Tottenham. Long may it continue.

Social media.
Just like moral corruption weakened the Roman Empire and led to its ruin.
Social media rots at the core of current society.

Cheery thought

I owe I owe
Off to work I go.

[Ellandback1]

Is it wrong for BT Sports to stick a microphone in front of someone with suicidal tendencies?

[hector]

maybe she didn't have them before having a pop at MB and the club.....

[mothbanquet]

Spurs Game

Loved it.

Social Media

I must admit I've been pondering this issue for some time now and I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the reason I left social media behind is ultimately because I don't respect it as a medium for proper human interaction. Whether unaccountable and anonymous words of hate and degradation or shallow, performative words of moralism it's a platform of play acting, ruled by whoever can screech the loudest.

Even as a natural libertarian and proponent of free speech I now think that, since so little of the speech on social media is genuine, the rules are different. In real life our speech is tempered by unspoken manners, custom and the fear that the person we're talking to could kick our heads in. Words from our lips are - and should be - free, but words from fingertips are without these natural limiters and as such, can't really be viewed as the same thing.

There's also the factor that American social quirks are infecting our own culture and have been for some time - whether it's racism, wokeism, anything that seeks to tear down, censor and oppress. Social media has made this very pervasive. At the end of the day, it's not like social media isn't a deceptively UN-influential echo chamber as it is, so making it even more so won't make the slightest bit of difference.

So that's my stance on the subject. Social media is crap and disingenuous, so I don't see rules of free speech applying to it as they should in real life. Of course, there's the very real and sinister growing acceptance of surveillance culture (report it! challenge it! say the adverts with brazen quick-cuts of CCTV cameras) this may engender, and once that framework if in place it's here to stay, there for anyone to abuse, but that's a different subject...

[Smudge3920]

Leeds outclass Spurs

Putting it mildly, it was a pure master class in football. The control of the game, the no fear attitude in facing a front 3 of Bale, Kane and Son, the no panic attitude when a goal by Spuds levelled the game. Just continued to do the job, and show that 7 days earlier it was a complete off day by the same 11 players...and not resting up or parking the bus when 2 goals up, as Dallas made the point causing a spectacular save from the "other" French goalie in the 91st minute.

Did Spuds come with an arrogant attitude? Who had just come of a 4-0 victory against Noocastle with a Bale Hatrick involved, perhaps...but at the end of the day the boys made the Spuds look like Noocastle...

A memorable victory, and one to be very proud of.

[Chilli D]

Leeds outclass Spurs

Putting it mildly, it was a pure master class in football. The control of the game, the no fear attitude in facing a front 3 of Bale, Kane and Son, the no panic attitude when a goal by Spuds levelled the game. Just continued to do the job, and show that 7 days earlier it was a complete off day by the same 11 players...and not resting up or parking the bus when 2 goals up, as Dallas made the point causing a spectacular save from the "other" French goalie in the 91st minute.

Did Spuds come with an arrogant attitude? Who had just come of a 4-0 victory against Noocastle with a Bale Hatrick involved, perhaps...but at the end of the day the boys made the Spuds look like Noocastle...

A memorable victory, and one to be very proud of.

It was Sheff Utd wasn't it?

[Smudge3920]

It was Sheff Utd wasn't it?

...was it? ...this getting old is crap... delete then insert in that case

[mothbanquet]

delete then insert in that case

A new brain?

[hector]

A new brain?

gotta find his old one first

[Smudge3920]

A new brain?

That as well....

[Smudge3920]

gotta find his old one first

oh its awake ...

[Mountain]

Kim Carney exploits and trivialises the Caroline Flack tragedy. Flack had long term mental health issues, and had self harmed and attempted suicide in the past. She was the subject of a prosecution and intense media and social media speculation. For Carney to suggest she did it as a response to just one issue, social media, is wrong.

[mothbanquet]

Kim Carney exploits and trivialises the Caroline Flack tragedy. Flack had long term mental health issues, and had self harmed and attempted suicide in the past. She was the subject of a prosecution and intense media and social media speculation. For Carney to suggest she did it as a response to just one issue, social media, is wrong.

Completely agree, mate. It takes a lot of protracted and compounded factors to drive a human being to end their own life, too many to sum up in a Twitter post. As you say, it trivialises an incredibly complex issue and will do more harm than good in allowing people to understand and resolve those factors.

I can't help but feel there are too many things in modern life designed to deflect, evade or provide a placebo for proper mental health treatment.

[John in Louisiana]

There's also the factor that American social quirks are infecting our own culture and have been for some time - whether it's racism, wokeism, anything that seeks to tear down, censor and oppress.

Laughable that you describe racism as an American social quirk.

I imagine there are more than a billion Indians, West Indians, Maori, Aborigines, East Europeans, etc. for whom this will come as quite a surprise.

Who do you think the original American racists were, for cryin' out loud?

I'm not trying to throw stones here. Lord knows racism lies at the heart of our problems as much as, if not more than, any nation on earth. But we have enough problems of our own (of which racism and wokeism are but two) over here without your blaming your problems on us.

And let's not forget that this forum is an instance of social media. While the language and abuse around here have never risen to the level of what these pundits and players have to face, we're having troubles of our own with people leaving the site and others being banned. It's not the media that are the problem, it's the way some people abuse them (and I am not pointing at any individuals around here). It's novel technology, and we're all having a difficult time trying to figure out how best to manage it, MOT Forum included.

I think the biggest problem with social media is that, in the past, if you had something to say, you said so publicly. People knew who you were and you understood that your public utterances had consequences. Now we can say what we want in complete anonymity and utterly without consequence. That needs to change.

[WhiteRose]

Carney clearly needs to accept that when your putting your opinions out to millions of people you are going to get opinions back, once you only had to worry about points of view (does that still exist?) Now everyone has a direct route to you.

Having said that there are parts of our fan base I have always struggled to connect with, im sorry if this offends but we all know the types, horrible, snarling and abusive sc*m who prefer the peripheral aspects of the game rather than the sport itself, her comments were like a red rag to a bull and the abuse she got was not deserved and I confess I was ashamed of it.

[John in Louisiana]

But the game!

Brilliant display.

I was not dismayed when I saw the starting lineup. I knew the players couldn't possibly turn in another stinker like the previous week and that everyone had had a week to get used to their new responsibilities (Koch and Dallas in particular).

The very picture of "side before self."

The announcers here in the States said more than once that Spurs had superior players and they would love to see Bielsa manage players like that.

Baloney.

Bielsa would never want to manage players like theirs. Our boys ran them off the pitch. Far better conditioned and far more willing to work as a unit. Would Bale - as great as he is - have passed on the shot Raphinha passed on? I doubt it. Ours is an utterly selfless group of players. To a man our players outworked theirs. They may have better players, we have a better team.

[mothbanquet]

Laughable that you describe racism as an American social quirk.

I imagine there are more than a billion Indians, West Indians, Maori, Aborigines, East Europeans, etc. for whom this will come as quite a surprise.

Who do you think the original American racists were, for cryin' out loud?

I'm not trying to throw stones here. Lord knows racism lies at the heart of our problems as much as, if not more than, any nation on earth. But we have enough problems of our own (of which racism and wokeism are but two) over here without your blaming your problems on us.

And let's not forget that this forum is an instance of social media. While the language and abuse around here have never risen to the level of what these pundits and players have to face, we're having troubles of our own with people leaving the site and others being banned. It's not the media that are the problem, it's the way some people abuse them (and I am not pointing at any individuals around here). It's novel technology, and we're all having a difficult time trying to figure out how best to manage it, MOT Forum included.

I think the biggest problem with social media is that, in the past, if you had something to say, you said so publicly. People knew who you were and you understood that your public utterances had consequences. Now we can say what we want in complete anonymity and utterly without consequence. That needs to change.

A clumsy way of putting it for sure, I will totally hold my hands up on that. A better way of saying it (didn't really want to get drawn into the topic in a single post about something else but clearly it needed clarifying) is that experiences of racism and the specifics of it are vastly different depending on where you live. If you think racism - both the perpetuation of it and reaction to it - is the same for people born and bred in the UK as it is in the US then you're ignoring the past 200 years of history. A mixed-race MP was elected in Scotland long before the US Civil War. The first black man had the vote in Britain before the Declaration of Independence was even signed. While the Jim Crow laws were in full swing during WW2, the pubs of Bamber Bridge had signs up saying Black US Soldiers Only, such was the preference the Lancastrian locals had towards the polite and well-mannered black American soldiers over the blustering white ones.

Am I saying racism doesn't exist in the UK? Of course not. But the manner in which it's shown is completely different. To quote my wife, a black East-London daughter of Jamaican immigrants - the racism she's experienced in the UK is far more subtle (outside of social media), it's something that you can avoid entirely or of which you can be convinced is everywhere depending on where you are or how you've been raised. A relative of hers went out of his way to try and convince her as a girl that she will never get anywhere and everyone will always be against her because of her skin colour and it took a long time for her to realise that simply wasn't the case.

This is to be expected perhaps when she learned about the American Civil Rights movement in school and not the British-led crusade to abolish slavery and provide compensation through a national debt that was only paid off less than a decade ago. I even think this disparity has led to some - myself included - becoming disconnected from and underestimating just how prevalent an issue it is across the pond. Certainly the experiences of black American friends of ours (again, enormously different to those I've garnered from my extended family) has made me consider this.

So yes, I stand by the theory that social media has caused a cultural bleedthrough that brings with it America's own personal demons every bit as much as it brings all the positive things. It's inevitable when you're the main cultural influencer of your age.

[Leeds1000]

I don't do any of the social media stuff, does YT count? Cos i love YT. My cousin put me off when he said one of his distant relatives literally told someone she was going to the toilet and would be back soon. WTF. Not for me i have always enjoyed my own company, especially when you work in retail.

Gutted i missed the Spurs game but hey ho tha can't win em all...Can tha.

[John in Louisiana]

A clumsy way of putting it for sure, I will totally hold my hands up on that. A better way of saying it (didn't really want to get drawn into the topic in a single post about something else but clearly it needed clarifying) is that experiences of racism and the specifics of it are vastly different depending on where you live. If you think racism - both the perpetuation of it and reaction to it - is the same for people born and bred in the UK as it is in the US then you're ignoring the past 200 years of history. A mixed-race MP was elected in Scotland long before the US Civil War. The first black man had the vote in Britain before the Declaration of Independence was even signed. While the Jim Crow laws were in full swing during WW2, the pubs of Bamber Bridge had signs up saying Black US Soldiers Only, such was the preference the Lancastrian locals had towards the polite and well-mannered black American soldiers over the blustering white ones.

Am I saying racism doesn't exist in the UK? Of course not. But the manner in which it's shown is completely different. To quote my wife, a black East-London daughter of Jamaican immigrants - the racism she's experienced in the UK is far more subtle (outside of social media), it's something that you can avoid entirely or of which you can be convinced is everywhere depending on where you are or how you've been raised. A relative of hers went out of his way to try and convince her as a girl that she will never get anywhere and everyone will always be against her because of her skin colour and it took a long time for her to realise that simply wasn't the case.

This is to be expected perhaps when she learned about the American Civil Rights movement in school and not the British-led crusade to abolish slavery and provide compensation through a national debt that was only paid off less than a decade ago. I even think this disparity has led to some - myself included - becoming disconnected from and underestimating just how prevalent an issue it is across the pond. Certainly the experiences of black American friends of ours (again, enormously different to those I've garnered from my extended family) has made me consider this.

So yes, I stand by the theory that social media has caused a cultural bleedthrough that brings with it America's own personal demons every bit as much as it brings all the positive things. It's inevitable when you're the main cultural influencer of your age.

Thank you for the thoughtful, reasoned response.

I'm willing to stipulate that the British were, and perhaps are, less racist than the Americans within their own borders. Perhaps a little more so outside, at least historically. After all, it wasn't Whitman or Thoreau who encouraged the US to pick up the "white man's burden" and create an empire of its own.