Best Newly Promoted Premier League Side?

[Cjay]

We certainly have a case imo.

We are officially the 4th most successful promoted side in Premier league history behind the Nottingham Forest team of 1994/1995, Newcastle of 1993/1994 and Ipswich team of 2000/2001.

Those teams managed 77,77 and 66 points respectively.

However for me you can discount Forest and Newcastle for a few reasons.

First of all it was a 42 game season back then.

And second of all the gulf financially between the Premier league and Football League hadnt yet occured.

The disparity between the haves and the have nots was yet to truly materialise.

Therfore imo you cant compare us to Newcastle and Forest because it was effectively a totally different playing field.

That brings us to George Burley's Ipswich. Now they were a very impressive side. Scored a good amount of goals to, werent overly defensive and played a bit more recently so the gulf betweem the haves and the have nots was a bit more obvious.

So its hard to choose between us and Ipswich imo.

We blow away the rest of the competition purely because of our attacking style of play, we are officially the most attacking Promoted side in Premier league history, our 62 goals is a record in a 38 game season.

Premier league sides who try to play attacking football usually end up relegated  (Norwich, Fulham and Blackpool) or scrape by (Bournemouth finished 16th in the 2015-2016 season).

Some teams made it work better in fairness, Sunderland in 1999/2000 were an attacking side with Quinn and Phillips scoring plenty but we beat their points total, goals scored and conceded less to so they are out of the equation.

By and large the most successful Promoted teams in the last decade during which time the gulf in finances between the promoted sides and non promoted sides has been at its largest and still growing have been defensively solid counter attacking teams.

Think Wolves and Sheffield United in recent seasons.

So to play as attacking as we have and still beat the points totals and goal differences of every Promoted side for 20 years is a phenomenal achievement.

It wont get mentioned but we do only have the 17th most expensive squad.

Our 59 points would have seen us 7th in all of the last 4 seasons and is a reflection of how competitive the league has been this year which gives us even more credit.

In fact Villa's 55points has always been enough for a top 10 Premier league finish whilst it has been a 38 game season.

It has actually been enough to finish 7th in fairly recent times.

That goes to show how competitive this season has been and to post a record points total in 20 years during a season like that playing the most attacking football by a promoted side in decades is a phenomenal achievement.

So it may be hard to seperate us from Ipswich and Forest and Newcastle fans may feel aggrieved but i think all things considered we can say with a fair amount of evidence that we are the best newly Promoted Premier league side ever.

Certainly of the modern era and i dont think i can be accused of bias for saying this.

MOT.

[Smudge3920]

Excellent post CJ...the facts are clear ...no bias at all in what you said , historicly or the modern day... what has been achieved this year, is remarkable, and there is a big shake up within the top 6 on the horizon...Other teams are no doubt going to be trying to assimilate a similar style ... but without a Bielsa to adapt , change and confuse... the future is nothing but bright ...Well said , great post.

[Norm]

You are correct I think, but if we were to talk about the best team to be promoted to the top division, it would still be Wilko's Leeds team who finished 4th in the old 1st Division 1990/91 after promotion in 1989/90. The Premier League still has the kernel of the top 1st Division sides so its only the league description that has changed, plus the top 6 get more oodles of dosh and half the EPL now gets to play in Europe. Let's not forget, Wilko had a formidable side, at least the equal of our current team.
They also did something better the next season, winning the final 1st Division title from scum.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

You are correct I think, but if we were to talk about the best team to be promoted to the top division, it would still be Wilko's Leeds team who finished 4th in the old 1st Division 1990/91 after promotion in 1989/90. The Premier League still has the kernel of the top 1st Division sides so its only the league description that has changed, plus the top 6 get more oodles of dosh and half the EPL now gets to play in Europe. Let's not forget, Wilko had a formidable side, at least the equal of our current team.
They also did something better the next season, winning the final 1st Division title from scum.

Hear Hear.

IMO Wilko doesn't get very much recogntion from Leeds fans, which is a total mystery to me. Even now the last English manager to win the top tier, he took over with the club totally in the doldrums after 8 years in the second tier by the time the club was promoted in 1989/90.

- 2nd division champs in his first full season in charge.
- 4th in the club's first season back in the top tier and reaching the semi-finals of the League Cup ( domestic cup competitions were still important back then )
- 1st division champions against all the odds in the club's next season.

He did it without any of the very best players of that era - Gascoigne, Lineker, Robson, Beardsley, Barnes, Wright etc - Lee Chapman our top scorer had the 8th highest tally of goals in the 1st division title winning year - 16 to Ian Wright's 29 !

[Smudge3920]

Bielsa 16 years in the doldrums ...takes up in 2nd year after losing in playoffs...

best record of a newly promoted side in the prem, points scored etc,basicly playing with the same championship team for over 1/2 a season due to injuries

With the 17th ranked team in way of cost...

Different times stronger challenges...

Not to say Wilikinson didnt do a great job also...

[Mountain]

Wilko's was a victim of his own success. The first few years involved promotion, the amazing 1st season in the top flight, and the title. But there was the collapse of the following season. Though the club recovered to finish 5th twice, then there was that Villa hammering at Wembley and another midtable finish. By the end of his reign Strachan, Speed and McAllister had gone, Deane, Rush, Sharpe and Palmer brought in, and Brolin and others had flopped along the way. He was perhaps unlucky in that he brought in 3 that went on to great things at Leeds, but largely after he left, Martyn, Radebe and Bowyer

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Wilko's was a victim of his own success. The first few years involved promotion, the amazing 1st season in the top flight, and the title. But there was the collapse of the following season. Though the club recovered to finish 5th twice, then there was that Villa hammering at Wembley and another midtable finish. By the end of his reign Strachan, Speed and McAllister had gone, Deane, Rush, Sharpe and Palmer brought in, and Brolin and others had flopped along the way. He was perhaps unlucky in that he brought in 3 that went on to great things at Leeds, but largely after he left, Martyn, Radebe and Bowyer

Worth remembering too that Wilko also set up the academy which led to the club's next period of success under O'Leary. He also signed Martyn and Bowyer, who played such key roles in the years when the club finished between 3rd to 5th in the PL under O'Leary and reached two successive European semis, which included the Champions League...He also signed Tony Yeboah let's not forget - a club legend for many and who - with the exception of hotshot Lorimer - scored the most spectacular goals in the club's history.

https://www.premierleague.com/video/sin ... ST=1581408

[YorkshireSquare]

Different eras. If we are going to talk about Wilko's side then we have to talk about Revie's side. Promoted to Division One in 1964, finished 2nd (on goal differfence) in 1964-1965. Didn't finnish out of the top 4 for 10 years including two title wins.

But in the Premier League era there is an argument we are one of the best if not the best promoted sides.

[whiteswan]

Wilko's was a victim of his own success. The first few years involved promotion, the amazing 1st season in the top flight, and the title. But there was the collapse of the following season. Though the club recovered to finish 5th twice, then there was that Villa hammering at Wembley and another midtable finish. By the end of his reign Strachan, Speed and McAllister had gone, Deane, Rush, Sharpe and Palmer brought in, and Brolin and others had flopped along the way. He was perhaps unlucky in that he brought in 3 that went on to great things at Leeds, but largely after he left, Martyn, Radebe and Bowyer

Agree......the first few years with Wilko were fab.....but for me

Giving away Cantona to Scum. He Cannot be forgiven for that treachery

[HarryofOz]

An intersting comparison between the Wilkinson team and the Bielsa team.

In my opinion (obviously, seeing that I am the one writing this post ), the Wilkinson midfield of Strachan, Batty, McAllister and Speed is second only to the Revie midfield in terms of quality and not by that much. The defenders could not only defend but could also score goals and Chapman kept hitting the back of the net, ably supported by Wallace. And of course in the Champion-winning season we had Cantona and Hodge.

I think most of those players could cope with BielsaBall too.

And of course they have the title to show for their endeavours.

A very different era though, the overall standard in the Premier League is higher than Division One was then.

I think that this team - with a couple of additions - has the potential for medium to long-term success in the Premier League, especially under Bielsa and/or a quality successor.

My confidence is much boosted by the strong end to the season. Team's that suffer a major second-season syndrome tend to be those that started their first season unexpectedly well but dropped off later in the season. We have improved which is an encouraging trend.

[SG90]

In most years 59 points would get you top 6, this year has just been much stronger quality. Only 8 points off the top 4 and you considered the games we lost Wolves (2), Brighton H, Villa H and West Ham H that we probably could've won.

[Boo Radley]

There was a higher points return for teams further up the league generally this year because the bottom 3 secured so few points.

In the last 10 years, only in the 18/19 season did the bottom 3 win so few points. In five of the last ten seasons the relegated teams points haul was over 90 points. This year it was only 77. In the 10/11 season it was 111!

We won 18 points of them, as did Villa I think, and you won’t necessarily do that every season.

[Leeds1000]

This team is closer to the O Leary side regards style which is no mean ft considering we were throwing money around like confetti in our previous existence. Imagine what Bielsa would have done with that team??? That O leary side was better than the Wilko side but without the honors to show for it.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Different eras. If we are going to talk about Wilko's side then we have to talk about Revie's side. Promoted to Division One in 1964, finished 2nd (on goal differfence) in 1964-1965. Didn't finnish out of the top 4 for 10 years including two title wins.

But in the Premier League era there is an argument we are one of the best if not the best promoted sides.

I think the Wilko comparison is because the season his newly promoted side finished 4th in Division One was just one season before the PL started. 4th in the 1990/1 season, champions in 1991/2 and then in 1992/3 the PL started with Leeds as the defending champions. So in terms of the opposition it was pretty much the same league in 1990/1 as in the start of the PL in1992/3 apart from the odd promotions and relegations.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

This team is closer to the O Leary side regards style which is no mean ft considering we were throwing money around like confetti in our previous existence. Imagine what Bielsa would have done with that team??? That O leary side was better than the Wilko side but without the honors to show for it.

Just as today, the O'Leary team was known as everybody's second favourite team - a similar swashbuckling, all out attacking style of play, with no fear of any team.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Agree......the first few years with Wilko were fab.....but for me

Giving away Cantona to Scum. He Cannot be forgiven for that treachery

I heard that it might have had something to do with problems between Cantona and Chapman - though I don't know for sure if it's true.

In the 1991/2 season I can still remember reading a report in one of the tabloids about Cantona's first Leeds match as a sub. It said that he looked sluggish and might struggle to adapt to the British game....

[CHAPELALLMAN]

An intersting comparison between the Wilkinson team and the Bielsa team.

In my opinion (obviously, seeing that I am the one writing this post ), the Wilkinson midfield of Strachan, Batty, McAllister and Speed is second only to the Revie midfield in terms of quality and not by that much. The defenders could not only defend but could also score goals and Chapman kept hitting the back of the net, ably supported by Wallace. And of course in the Champion-winning season we had Cantona and Hodge.

I think most of those players could cope with BielsaBall too.

And of course they have the title to show for their endeavours.

A very different era though, the overall standard in the Premier League is higher than Division One was then.

I think that this team - with a couple of additions - has the potential for medium to long-term success in the Premier League, especially under Bielsa and/or a quality successor.

My confidence is much boosted by the strong end to the season. Team's that suffer a major second-season syndrome tend to be those that started their first season unexpectedly well but dropped off later in the season. We have improved which is an encouraging trend.

Fitness certainly wouldn't be an issue ' Sgt Wilko ' was infamous for his cross country runs...When he arrived he imposed the same kind of iron discipline on players as Bielsa imposes today. He had the same kind of attention to detail as well which bordered on OCD. So in many ways they are not dissimilar.

[Norm]

CHAPELALLMAN wrote:

I heard that it might have had something to do with problems between Cantona and Chapman - though I don't know for sure if it's true.

In the 1991/2 season I can still remember reading a report about Cantona's first Leeds match as a sub in one of the tabloids. It said that he looked sluggish and might struggle to adapt to the British game....

If rumours were to be believed it was something to do with Cantona and Chappie's wife Leslie Ash, but I know nothing.

[Norm]

CHAPELALLMAN wrote:

Just as today, the O'Leary team was known as everybody's second favourite team - a similar swashbuckling, all out attacking style of play, with no fear of any team.
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Mon May 24, 2021 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Worst mistake Ridsdale ever made was sacking O'Leary and replacing him with that tosspot Venables. In fairness to Venables he had been successful at earlier appointments but he tried to change all the players' good habits and techniques and ended up screwing the pooch. We were dire and eventually demoted to the 3rd Division. It took a Leeds lad called Grayson to get us back to Division 2 but then Master Bates stuck his oar in and fired Simon.

Thought I'd post this trip dowm memory lane - some of it's like a horror show but it's been life supporting Leeds

Marcelo Bielsa 15 Jun, 2018 Present
Paul Heckingbottom 06 Feb, 2018 15 Jun, 2018
Thomas Christiansen 15 Jun, 2017 06 Feb, 2018
Garry Monk 02 Jun, 2016 25 May, 2017
Steve Evans 19 Oct, 2015 02 Jun, 2016
Uwe Rosler 20 May, 2015 19 Oct, 2015
Neil Redfearn 27 Oct, 2014 20 May, 2015
Darko Milanic 23 Sep, 2014 25 Oct, 2014
Dave Hockaday 19 Jun, 2014 28 Aug, 2014
Brian McDermott 12 Apr, 2013 30 May, 2014
Neil Redfearn 01 Apr, 2013 12 Apr, 2013
Neil Warnock 20 Feb, 2012 01 Apr, 2013
Neil Redfearn 01 Feb, 2012 20 Feb, 2012
Simon Grayson 23 Dec, 2008 01 Feb, 2012
Gary McAllister 30 Jan, 2008 22 Dec, 2008
Dennis Wise 24 Oct, 2006 28 Jan, 2008
John Carver 21 Sep, 2006 23 Oct, 2006
Kevin Blackwell 01 Jun, 2004 20 Sep, 2006
Eddie Gray 10 Nov, 2003 31 May, 2004
Peter Reid 21 Mar, 2003 10 Nov, 2003
Terry Venables 08 Jul, 2002 21 Mar, 2003
David O'Leary 01 Oct, 1998 27 Jun, 2002

Sorry it's in reverse order but hey -

[whiteroseboy]

I heard that it might have had something to do with problems between Cantona and Chapman - though I don't know for sure if it's true.

It wasn't Chapman although that was the rumour that proved popular at the time, it was a different player as I heard from a very good source.