The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

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Breakfast Debate The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Ellandback1 »



Good Morning. It's Monday 18th October, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road


Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Leeds slipped to within one place of the drop zone after handing Southampton their first league victory of the season in front of a packed out crowd at St Mary's. Whilst, it was going to be an uphill task, without first team stars such as Firpo, Phillips, Bamford, Raphinha and Ayling, you'd expect any Leeds side to fight for every ball, and make it difficult for Hasenhüttl's men; alas, this could not be further from the truth.

The Saints too, had their fair share of absentee's. Jack Stephens, Che Adams and James Ward Prowse were all missing from the home side's starting line-up. Their plight to stay in the Premiership has been made that much harder after being forced to sell Ings, Vestergaard, Bertrand, Gunn and Lamina during the Summer to balance the books!

Heart wrenchingly, Leeds showed no pride. Their performance was not just inept, there was no fight, passion or willingness to dig deep and show some Yorkshire grit. Leeds only saving grace is that Southampton were not strong enough to take advantage of their 20 shots at goal (to Leeds 3); but what would you expect from a centre forward, who only months ago was playing for Chelsea's U23's?





Puzzling

Leeds fans were left baffled after both Raphinha and Phillips both made the 500 round trip to St Mary's knowing neither stood a chance of playing. Phillips was ruled out having not recovered from his calf strain, whilst the newest member of the Brazilian National team, met up with the squad after a gruelling International break. Having landed in London on Friday afternoon, he made the two-hour outing to Southampton instead of going home to recuperate!

The 24 year old had played an integral part in all three games for the South Americans and had caught a flight directly after the 4-1 win over Uruguay in the early hours of Friday morning! Surely the sensible thing would have been for Raph to make the four hour trip back to Leeds and catch up on his sleep, fresh for training on Monday morning.





When are we going to stop making excuses for the team

'It's only pre-season', 'Our fixture list has been more difficult than last season' and 'We've been unlucky with injuries'. These are just some of the excuses we have made this season. In fact, apart from our performances against West Ham and Watford (who were dire) our productivity has been unacceptable. Are these players stealing a living at the moment? Our wage bill is over £100m a year now, and considering how small the squad is, are being paid a lot more than most Premier League clubs?





Is Bielsa the right man for a relegation fight?

Bielsa has been nothing short of an inspiration since his arrival in 2018. Very few would have heard of the Argentine before taking the ER hot seat, but none of us will forget him. His legendary coaching methods have mesmerised fans and pundits alike, yet his stubbornness to change the formation Leeds play, or drop players who are out of sorts has caused grave concerns, as are his substitutions! Is the 66 year old, the best man to get Leeds out of trouble, or will his headstrong attitude hinder the Whites?


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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) You're not fit to wear the shirt

Post by 60sUnited »

After all the posts and all the comments on this forum the most disappointing aspect of Saturdays defeat was the lack of spirit shown by our players. We are definitely going to be in a tough relegation scrap even when / if we get our 11 first teamers playing,which Bielsa needs to realise. We need the players to show some grit and grind out results, if we don't wake up to that fact we are doomed :(
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) You're not fit to wear the shirt

Post by mentalcase »

Everyone bar Bielsa and those who think he is a god can see what is going on, things need to change and pretty damn fast, we simply cannot just sit back, relax and pretend all will be rosy.
I still believe we will get out the mess we’re in, but, long term, the whole set up needs to change.
An ageing squad can be changed ,but not in one swoop, the youth will play an integral part but, we still need to bring in new players.
Who ever heard of a 3 man decision to bring in new talent !! Wtf is that all about ? Honestly, I can’t get my head round that one, I simply can’t.
I do trust Bielsa, but, only so far, for me his reliance, stubbornness in keeping with the same old will be his downfall if he ain’t careful.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) You're not fit to wear the shirt

Post by Ellandback1 »

60sUnited wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:22 am After all the posts and all the comments on this forum the most disappointing aspect of Saturdays defeat was the lack of spirit shown by our players. We are definitely going to be in a tough relegation scrap even when / if we get our 11 first teamers playing,which Bielsa needs to realise. We need the players to show some grit and grind out results, if we don't wake up to that fact we are doomed :(
Absolutely pal

Spirit, effort and passion!

This is a debate though. lets hear from those who disagree also!!!!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by SG90 »

I can accept defeat as long as we try, but Saturday was embarrassing. To not have a single attempt on target in 90 mins is shocking. The sad thing is I'm not even surprised. Yet we had over £50m in James and Rodrigo up front.

Interesting that Southampton had two signings from Chelsea u23s in the starting line up, but we're told Bate is too young. :duno: Even though he is exactly what we're crying out for now, a midfielder with passing range and vision who can progress forward. Not a cripple who passes backwards and sideways and then still manages to give it away.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Irish Ian »

1.Crap peformance. Meslier crap distribution Defenders crap on the ball under pressure.
Front line aimless chickens but the real problem is the midfield one which rewuires Klich to do two jobs. Struijk is not a DMF.
SA did to us what we have done to others for three seasons, but their masterstroke was to give us room at the start off the second half and allow our by now disfunctional wing backs to give them the ball then bang we were a goal down. Brilliant really..


You dont know why Raph and KP were at St Marys......

Really? PUZZLED in fact? Perhaps they were there to support their club....



I think the main problem is that our fan base are so used to Championship and below league campaigns that we are the ones out of our depth at this level. So of course it is easy to blame the players, the manager, and anyone else who takes your fancy.
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) You're not fit to wear the shirt

Post by Ellandback1 »

mentalcase wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:12 am Everyone bar Bielsa and those who think he is a god can see what is going on, things need to change and pretty damn fast, we simply cannot just sit back, relax and pretend all will be rosy.
I still believe we will get out the mess we’re in, but, long term, the whole set up needs to change.
An ageing squad can be changed ,but not in one swoop, the youth will play an integral part but, we still need to bring in new players.
Who ever heard of a 3 man decision to bring in new talent !! Wtf is that all about ? Honestly, I can’t get my head round that one, I simply can’t.
I do trust Bielsa, but, only so far, for me his reliance, stubbornness in keeping with the same old will be his downfall if he ain’t careful.
I don't get it how Bielsa can do no wrong!!!

His tactics are questionable :

Square pegs in round holes
Won't change his tactic
Refuses to drop players when they are awful
Very questionable substitutions

As a coach, he is World class!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Irish Ian »

Oh yes and Bielsas stubbornness ( which does infuriate me at times)

Brighton away last season.
Spurs at home the next.

What was the common denominator?
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by 1964white »

SG90 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:20 am I can accept defeat as long as we try, but Saturday was embarrassing. To not have a single attempt on target in 90 mins is shocking. The sad thing is I'm not even surprised. Yet we had over £50m in James and Rodrigo up front.

Interesting that Southampton had two signings from Chelsea u23s in the starting line up, but we're told Bate is too young. :duno: Even though he is exactly what we're crying out for now, a midfielder with passing range and vision who can progress forward. Not a cripple who passes backwards and sideways and then still manages to give it away.
Make it £62m with the signing of Jack :roll:

Even when we had free-kicks in their half we passed the ball backwards to our CB's, what is the point of that?

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Ellandback1 »

Irish Ian wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 am 1.Crap peformance. Meslier crap distribution Defenders crap on the ball under pressure.
Front line aimless chickens but the real problem is the midfield one which rewuires Klich to do two jobs. Struijk is not a DMF.
SA did to us what we have done to others for three seasons, but their masterstroke was to give us room at the start off the second half and allow our by now disfunctional wing backs to give them the ball then bang we were a goal down. Brilliant really..


You dont know why Raph and KP were at St Marys......

Really? PUZZLED in fact? Perhaps they were there to support their club....



I think the main problem is that our fan base are so used to Championship and below league campaigns that we are the ones out of our depth at this level. So of course it is easy to blame the players, the manager, and anyone else who takes your fancy.
Ian, I didn't still much animated support from them. It's more important they receive rest, which a) assists in overcoming injury and b) jet lag!

There were 2,500 fans that made the 500 mile trip (which should be reimbursed) imo.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) You're not fit to wear the shirt

Post by Irish Ian »

Ellandback1 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 am I don't get it how Bielsa can do no wrong!!!

His tactics are questionable :

Square pegs in round holes
Won't change his tactic
Refuses to drop players when they are awful
Very questionable substitutions

As a coach, he is World class!
Dunno if you are much of a reader EB ( though I suspect you are)

Check this out.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bounce-Myth-Ta ... merReviews


When I read it last summer, it did make me think about Bielsa and his outlook.

Burnout
Choking
Excellence through not muscle memory which is a misnomer but nerve memory
Failure being more valuable a tutor than success.

A wonderfully well written work, and so much links to what we have and are seeing al Leeds.
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Irish Ian »

Ellandback1 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:28 am Ian, I didn't still much animated support from them. It's more important they receive rest, which a) assists in overcoming injury and b) jet lag!

There were 2,500 fans that made the 500 mile trip (which should be reimbursed) imo.
Ill have to tell my missus that one, sitting on a comfy chair watching the footy isnt rest :)

Agree the fans need some sort of apology.
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Ellandback1 »

Irish Ian wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 am 1.Crap peformance. Meslier crap distribution Defenders crap on the ball under pressure.
Front line aimless chickens but the real problem is the midfield one which rewuires Klich to do two jobs. Struijk is not a DMF.
SA did to us what we have done to others for three seasons, but their masterstroke was to give us room at the start off the second half and allow our by now disfunctional wing backs to give them the ball then bang we were a goal down. Brilliant really..


You dont know why Raph and KP were at St Marys......

Really? PUZZLED in fact? Perhaps they were there to support their club....



I think the main problem is that our fan base are so used to Championship and below league campaigns that we are the ones out of our depth at this level. So of course it is easy to blame the players, the manager, and anyone else who takes your fancy.
We proved last season, we are not out of our depth. Yes, perhaps we over achieved a little, but to do a 180 degree turn is inexplicable.

Square pegs in round holes, and continually picking players who are out of form are not helping our cause.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Mountain »

Good Lord, if Bielsa ever read this forum he'd have to wonder.

2 months ago it was all murals and praise for what he has achieved. Now a section of fans are slamming him.

I know fans are fickle, I know you can't expect gratitude and loyalty in football, but the speed at which some have turned on him is still surprising.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) You're not fit to wear the shirt

Post by 1964white »

Ellandback1 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 am I don't get it how Bielsa can do no wrong!!!

His tactics are questionable :

Square pegs in round holes
Won't change his tactic
Refuses to drop players when they are awful
Very questionable substitutions

As a coach, he is World class!
Wolves should be interesting!

Same old, I suspect
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by SG90 »

Mountain wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:34 am Good Lord, if Bielsa ever read this forum he'd have to wonder.

2 months ago it was all murals and praise for what he has achieved. Now a section of fans are slamming him.

I know fans are fickle, I know you can't expect gratitude and loyalty in football, but the speed at which some have turned on him is still surprising.
Even when we were winning I said the same things about Bielsa that I am now. Interesting to see what his legacy would be if he takes us back down?
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by 1964white »

Mountain wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:34 am Good Lord, if Bielsa ever read this forum he'd have to wonder.

2 months ago it was all murals and praise for what he has achieved. Now a section of fans are slamming him.

I know fans are fickle, I know you can't expect gratitude and loyalty in football, but the speed at which some have turned on him is still surprising.
Fans wouldn't be slamming Marcelo if we weren't continuously making the same mistakes week in week out.

Anyone who can find many positives/solace from that Saints match or our season from the onset in general must be watching different games to me.

Our fans are concerned & are making valid points.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by SG90 »

As I said before, there's no point getting rid as the players aren't good enough and no one will get more out of them. However I do believe Bielsa's stubbornness will take us down in the end.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by 1964white »

SG90 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:39 am Even when we were winning I said the same things about Bielsa that I am now. Interesting to see what his legacy would be if he takes us back down?
Some fans would still make excuses for our demise :(
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 18th October) - Disappointing performance sees Leeds pointless at St Mary’s

Post by Ellandback1 »

Rodrigo really had a stinker on Saturday, though his recent performances have been good.

He's not a goal scorer, never has been, and wasn't bought to Elland Road to score goals.

"Rodrigo is not massively prolific but he suits the ‘Bielsa-ball’ style," "Leeds have signed him for his work-rate off the ball, his runs and his movement. They don’t just look at the goal scoring. "That’s why when I see Rodrigo play for Spain, there is a lot of rotation, there is a lot of movements he makes, which I like to call unselfish runs to open up space for other players. Rodrigo understands this".

"He knows how to win the ball back and he knows how to do the pressing. It’s a sensational signing for the Bielsa style and the goals will just be bonuses."
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